Opinion  Others
Free at last
By Amos Oz
Published: 21.08.05, 17:48
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31. My Couisin Oz
Charles Oz ,   Brooklyn   (08.22.05)
Come join me in Brooklyn where you can be a free jew in a free country. Here democracy truly rules. And opponents are not silenced by a bulldozer. You, my couisin, Amos are nothing more than an occupier, gaza was only your outer discomfort zone. Ask any of your palestian couisins, you are not in your own land and certainly it is not a free society. Kfar Darom or Tel Aviv or Jerusalem--you are still a Golus Jew. Come move to Flatbush--here you can write and no one will doubt your sincerity. Your Couisin Charlie
32. Left-wing seculars founded Gaza
Irv   (08.22.05)
Amos Oz is a moron. The secular Rabin government founded the settlements of Gaza. Why is he demonizing the religious for moving there, they cherished the land and tilled it unlike Hamas. Do not compare the religious jews to Hamas, that is innappropriate. Gaza needed to go maybe, but dont blame the religious for the problems. Israel has never had a religious government in control, only seculars. So all the problems today can be attributed to the secular jews who marry gentiles anyways. It is the religious who have the jewish babies and they will ultimately be the ones who make Israel last forever.
33. on the disengagement issue
foreigner ,   Greece   (08.22.05)
I am a non Jew who however cares very deeply for Israel (both Eretz Israel and Am Israel). I thought I had a good amount of sympathy and empathy for the settlers. Yes, on the premises of successive Israeli governments' promises and support, these people have been out there [fill in] for years, ploughing the land, erecting villages or towns, raising their families, burying their dead, having a life. Now another Israeli government comes up and says "oooops, now you dismantle". Understandably this takes time to grasp, to digest. You cannot dismantle your life like that. It's sth that demands explanations and compelling reasons. The Sharon administration has not yet provided these. Why? One may be tempted to say, "because there are no compelling reasons to begin with"; someone else might think "there may be some very compelling reasons, but in Israel's best interest, such reasons better remain classified for now, we do not want to "share" them with the Arab street". I have no idea if the so called disengagement will be good or bad as the two sides, the blue and the orange, prophesize. They do not simply prophesize. Worse, both sides present as present tense reality whatever will happen in the future. I shun from shaping an opinion yet. But I am writing here for another reason. To voice my deep concern over the settler attitude towards a national government. By both creed and deed, these people (along with their leaders) look dangerously like delegitiming the Israeli government as well as pivotal state institutions (police, army). They are so desperate that they do not care to realize what "message" their acts send out to the rest of the world, a message of unbridgeable division , disobedience to statal authority and violence; in other words, the very ingredients of the Pal agenda. What better (read sadder) gift to the Arabs... Meanwhile most Israeli newspapers reserve several megabytes to give the floor to their readers. I have been reading many posts and I must confess that I feel disappointed to see how such a complex issue as this is seen in swallow and narrow manner, peppered with plenty of lashon hara and personal attacks. May HaShem help all of us keep our wits together in the months ahead, for Israel's sake.
34. LAND OF OZ
JEW   (08.22.05)
The land of Oz is a land devoid of Judaism. It will take one to two more generations of birth in the religious sector to ethnically cleanse ourselves from the land of Oz. Enjoy Israel and your " free land " It won't last forever.
35. THIS WOMANS CRIME WAS HAVING A CHILD WHO BELIEVES IN GOD
(08.22.05)
36. We are one People!
Janet ,   Raanana, Israel   (08.22.05)
Hamas and all those who wish to destroy Israel can rest easy. We have Jews like Amos Oz who also hate us and would not allow the many kinds of Jews to choose how they wish to observe their Judaism. We are supposed to be a light unto the nations. Amoz Oz should use his talent to further our mission rather than trying to bring us down to the level of the rest of the world by pitting "Israelis" against "Jews." We are one people with different opinions. Look past your nose, Amos Oz!
37. Amos...and Gaza
sb ,   BCN   (08.22.05)
Great, simply what many of us think about Gaza withdrawal.. I cannot but agree, with each world of this splendid article
38. Amos Oz is an Orthodox Secular Fanatic
Eric ,   Bet Shemesh, Israel   (08.22.05)
Amos Oz is just an Orthodox Secular Fanatic who wants to ram his religion down our throats until we are all just like him. Of course, he's so fanatical that he doesn't realize it. I was once like him. Thankfully, I found enlightenment by watching my neighbor walk his dog every morning. Suddenly, I felt that I was living a dog's life, eating, pooping and getting taken for an occasional walk. It was not a very fulfilling feeling. Eventually, I found the spiritual soul within me. It gives me great comfort to know that my spiritual soul is connected directly to the creator who gave it to me. Alas, the silent majority among my brethern have not made this discovery, and they cling fanatically to their secularism. In the meantime, Amos Oz can use his powers of free will to make really important decisions, like which restaurant to have dinner in every evening. I hope his master takes him for a walk afterwards.
39. What a shame
nyju ,   USA   (08.23.05)
"...free... from the nightmare of being an occupying, uprooting, exploiting, settling, expropriating, humiliating, discriminatory country" How then, Mr. Oz in your obvious self-loathning, do you justify being " a free people if a free land" anywhere in the land of Israel? I thought that Zionism was meant to produce the "proud new Jew". it is becoming increasingly evident that that term applies increasingly to religious Zionists. What a shame that these hateful caricatures of religious Jews flow from the talented pen of the man who represents Israel to so many in the world. (the pictures acompanying the article btw, are no better, portraying them as wild-eyed fanatics),
40. OZ- Good mind
(08.23.05)
You've got a good mind- dont let these jewish zealots fill it with dirt- Its unbelievable to me to watch them writing from NYC , or what not (my country by the way) and weeping for the JEWISH power state of Israel- or wanting a JEW power state- despite the crimes inflicted upon the Palestinians. I ts actually pretty scary- and I dont want those type of people in America- they are racist.
41. To # 40
Secular Sabra ,   Israel   (08.23.05)
I don't want them here either . Sadly the religious right is full of them . Now we have started to get crazy christian ones over here to ... religion makes me want to weep.... it's all about hate and seperation of people. Think of all the wars we went through .......and it took a religious jew to murder Rabin !!!
42. shmuel ben ovadia.
Raykie ,   Israel   (08.23.05)
I notice that only superficial things have any value for you. I wonder that your high standards are satisfied by the raw humanity I have seen in Florida. Perhaps if you had the ability and the discernment to see more deeply you might notice positive qualities in Israel. You would be surprised at the amount of elegance and sophistication that can be found in Israel if you have the eyes to see them with, or the social graces that would cause you to be invited to places where they are displayed.
43. What's self hating about this?
daniel ,   amsterdam   (08.23.05)
I remember Amos Oz saying something similar in 1993 when the Oslo project just started. It was the end of the greater Israel dream and we should not gloat. Now he's repeating it and I think it is right. I also remember Yael Dayan on election night in 1996 when Peres was still ahead of Bibi and she said a tiny majority is still a majority and the minority should shut up. I think that's wrong and I think such an attitude will lead to trouble So I prefer Amos Oz but I disagree that the settler dream is completely lost. If we keep control over Jerusalem and some parts of the westbank I'd say they did a pretty good job. I'd say the biggest problem has been the split between the secular zionists. Hopefully those two dinosaurs Sharon and Peres can create a platform which will unite the Zionists of old. We need the religious zionists but they should not be in control.
44. 43-you are as insane as the author
(08.23.05)
45. Selective Historical Memory
Prof' Ben-Hanan ,   Highland Park, NJ   (08.23.05)
Amos Oz is an Israeli equivalent of Michael Moore, using paper rather than film to express his radical leftist views. He is a gifted author, but he has no qualifications to analyze social or political events. He is technically a Jew, but your neighborhood's skunk is probably more Jewish than this self-appointed Marxist-moral-compass. In Jewish history there were always two groups: those that fear God and try to obey His commandments, and those who do not fear Him. Remember the Hebrews who built the golden calf? Amos Oz soul belongs to the calf builders, I have no doubt. Here's one example. Oz writes: They have their own dream. The first stage is the "whole land of Israel," filled wall-to-wall with Jews-only towns. As if the settlers have a monopoly on the dream and invented it. Oz conveniently ignores the foundations of the Zionist movement since the destruction of the first Temple. Jews always wanted to go back to their homeland, and build it as a Jewish entity. Even the ultra-socialist David Ben-Gurion, one of the authors of Israel's declaration of Independence and its first prime minister wrote and proclaimed that [WE] HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-ISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL Israel's declaration of Independence describes Jewish immigrants to Israel in the following terms: "Pioneers,...and defenders, they made deserts bloom, revived the Hebrew language, built villages and towns, and created a thriving community controlling its own economy and culture, loving peace but knowing how to defend itself, bringing the blessings of progress to all the country's inhabitants, and aspiring towards independent nationhood." Same is true of today's settlers, Oz so loves to hate. Here's one more example of Oz disconnect from Zionism, Jewish history and values. Oz writes: For more than 30 years, the settlers' dream has choked the dream of free Israelis. The dream of the whole land of Israel and a messianic kingship drains daily the hope of being a people free to build a just society. Oz claims that the "free Israelis" (who are they? the gay & lesbians who provocatively marched in Jerusalem last June? the remnants of the all but extinct communist societies known as Kibbutz?) want to be free to "build a just society". What's a "just society"? As per Oz, a society that enforces re-distribution of wealth "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs" as Marx said. As per OZ, a "just society" is one that believes in peace. "The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism" said Karl Marx. ergo, Oz and his ilk do not care about peace between Arabs and Jews. They want to promote socialism of the worst kind, to create a "just society". If Oz had any education and knowledge of Jewish law and tradition, he'd know that a Jewish society conducted according to Jewish law is at least as just as any social-conscious theory. Some more on the "choking settlers"... My maternal grandfather, Daniel Gluckstadt was a descendant of Jews who escaped Spain's and Portugal's Inquisitions in order to remain Jewish and be able to recite at least once a day the prayer to return to Zion (synonym of Jerusalem). Daniel came to British Palestine (legally), settled in the Jesrael valley and became a farmer. The State of Israel and Oz owe their existence to people like Daniel, who settled in the land of their forefathers since the late 1800's. According to the Oz definition, Daniel must have been a "choker" who suppressed the development of a "just society". BTW - Oz never mentions Zionism and the right of the Jews to a secure State in their ENTIRE ancestor's homeland. For Oz even a tiny fragment of land is too much...
46. to Meir, #1
(08.23.05)
Thank you for your words. I agree and will follow up on your recommendations of authors to read INSTEAD of this creep. I respect your opinion a lot more than Oz's...What a sorry man.
47. #2: complicated response, but correct
(08.23.05)
48. Eyal (#3) is another self-hating Jew
(08.23.05)
49. TO BEN, #6: Good Advice. I hope Mr. Oz takes it!
(08.23.05)
50. To Yossi Levin, #8:
(08.23.05)
Good luck getting those questions answered. I think that you have made very good points and I agree with you wholeheartedly. It is so tragic that we have so many among us who are so completely out of their minds! With G-d's help, they will wake up and shed their goyish aspirations. Perhaps they will even learn to stop biting the hand that feeds them, who knows? Keep asking those questions to our lost brothers and sisters, for their is always hope. Never give up on your fellow Jews. In the end , G-d willing, we will all unite and then the Moshiach will come and we can look back at all of this as trivialities.
51. Why hav a "Jewish" country?
Ben S. ,   New York, USA   (08.24.05)
With all Mr. Oz's talk of universality and "caring for the less fortunate" Arabs (never mind that they have all the oil and there are over a billion of them) I wonder why we should pull out of Gaza at all? wouldn't his dream of being "free" of tyrannical Rabbis and Jewish tradition be best served with a NEW Israel with an Arab majority? why not annex Yeash and all the freedom loving Arabs and people like Amos Oz will turn it into the next USA (as if)! My question is, is there a place for a Jewish state? Seems to me that Mr. Oz should find that a bit racist! Universal brotherhood etc. just another way of trying to get rid of Traditional Jewish. Oz - "We want to live in an enlightened, open and just country, not in some messianic, rabbinic monarchy" . This is basically loaded propaganda implying that Religious are not "just". I call bull*** and in the US i would call it racist. Oz - "It means recognizing we are not alone in this land – and demanding from the Palestinians that they do the same." I agree! I see lots of Arab Israelis, where are the Jewish Saudi Arabians? Why can't Jews live in Gaza if the Arabs have to share alike? Oz - "to free ourselves, once-and-for-all, from the nightmare of being an occupying, uprooting, exploiting, settling, expropriating, humiliating, discriminatory country." The main tenet of Zionism is to "settle" the land of Israel. Why do you make "settling" a bad word? "Uprooting"? where were people uprooted? Oh you must mean all the Jewish people that were brutally kicked out of the Arab land in the middle east. you couldn't possibly be talking about Jews forcing out Arabs in Israel could you? I mean Israel is the most tolerant country in the middle east. We allow any nationality to be citizens, anyone that stayed after 1948 and didn't leave became citizens. In conclusion you have exposed yourself as being an anti-religious bigot with no philosophy other then vague ideas of "universal brotherhood" that will get you nowhere in the harsh reality of the world, let alone the middle east.
52. so wrong, my friend. You are a slave to them now.
Miriam ,   LA, California   (08.24.05)
It is people like you who will never say the Jews are right because you are always afraid of what the world will say. Get it straight, the Arabs are only moving in for more. They want religious blood and secular blood , just the same. Your slavery to them is only being dragged out.
53. Mr. Oz, You ought to read #51
(08.24.05)
...and realize that the land of Israel will never be mini-Europe - G-d willing.
54. To Prof. Ben-Hanan, #51:
(08.24.05)
We need to hear more from people like you, rather than bozos like Amos Oz. Keep up the good work and postings like this one!
55. "Uprooting"? where were people uprooted
sandy ,   uk   (08.24.05)
I think you'll find he is talking about the arab refugees of 1948 they didn't leave - they fled - and you'll find the right of return of refugees is enshrined in international law
56. Seperate religion from State
Dudi ,   Jerusalem   (08.24.05)
We can still be a Jewish state, with Jewish values. It's the the Rabbi's in government who corrupt the religious institutions and prostitute their beliefs to gain more money. Fact, They bleed the country dry by draining the budgets of money that should go to all the poor, so that they can give it to their own followers and Yeshivas. Fact. We will not turn into a messianic fundamentalist State as some of these settlers want. It's nothing to do with Zionism, and everthingto do with Messinism.
57. Pity such a bright man once...
Eric ,   France   (08.24.05)
Mr Oz, i wish people like you, white atheist ashkenazi north tel Aviv type were not the real rulers of Israel-even if it will not last. And what a pity you don t hate the arab terrorists as much as you hate the religious Jews!
58. diversity ozzie. thats what its all about
(08.25.05)
No one said everyone has to think like you. No one said everyone has to think like them either. Theyre all nahlawi gardeners anyway. And you? Same rubbish, different name. Learn to agree to disagree without verbaly raping a cultural subgroup of our diverse people. There is strength in diversity, even if we dont all agree all the time. I assume you have a partner or are married? Do you agree with your wife all the time? No (even if you do say yes dear all the time doesnt mean you actually agree with her). Same story here. shalom
59. Oz - Voice of the past , representing a minority
Yoel   (08.26.05)
It seems very clear the Oz is simply a voice of the old left wing secular. He speaks of Israel but cannot define exactly what it entails. He pleads to be free.. But free from the Jewish religion.. There seems no reason to remain in Israel. If a Uganda scenario had arisen once again he would take. What he does not realise is that although most Israelis are not 'religious' they value their tradition and this is not something they would like to free themselves from. He speaks of false hugs... How false is the community he represents claiming to worry about rights of palestinians , however would strive for this separation without even making true peace . To live in Tel Aviv in peace without the palestinians...
60. #5 Sean This is not the same as SA -Boet
Yoel ,   London   (08.26.05)
Sean, You cannot compare this to SA. Did Madiba allow the PAC and others to continue the armed struggle? Was there haterd in the streets, calling for the killing of whites. Did you turn around and say here have Venda as they did for Gaza? Did the ANC recognise that the whites would play in SA. The situation is completely different. Dont even waste your time trying to compare. There will be no peace in the middle east and the arabs will still call for the destruction of Israel. Oz is a dreamer, a person who has no identity and would probably do very well back in SA
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