The Left’s hallucinations
Shaul Rosenfeld
Published: 29.08.05, 22:50
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15 Talkbacks for this article
1. Kol HaKavod
Arik   (08.29.05)
These tsfonim are the worst ennemies of the Jewish People. War criminals are jailed for their crimes, these peace criminals should be sent to Gitmo. Kol HaKavod Mr Rosenfeld.
2. Try insanity, padded rooms, straight jackets, and thorazine
The left is totally out of their minds crazy
3. Thank you Shaul
80% of Israeli Jews passionately reject the Left. In fact, much, if not most of Labour and Meretz Party's votes come from Israeli-Arabs. Labour leaders call each other names and get into fistfights at their conventions. You can often find Haaretz, Gush Shalom and other far-left Israeli organisations' publications on Neo-Nazi, and terrorist websites. At first, we found leftist Israeli's naivety cute, but now it has become militaristic
4. labels
Michael ,   Haifa   (08.30.05)
Left and Right are meaningless labels used by ignorant people. In reality, values divide up between decent and indecent people. This Rosenfeld person is a classic example of the indecent, a man who does not use force to protect his views, but a creature who uses force to impose his values on others.
5. the left are traitors
mar ,   nyc   (08.30.05)
when the arabs demand disengagement from tel aviv, every jew in the world will stand up for the leftist haaretz jews. but the tel avivians do not extend the same courtesy to their brothers & sisters from gaza. tel aviv is a coastal city and pushing israel's jews into the sea will crowd their parks & beach, a process that started last week.
6. #3 80% British Gas and Gaza
dahvid ,   usa   (08.30.05)
"80% of Israeli Jews passionately reject the Left" May I ask what the 80% figure is based upon, and exactly what is defined as "The Left". Please don't misunderstand, I am only trying to understand, because other articles have stated opposite and there are obvious political motivations. Since I am a Jewish American, I do want to comment where I lack knodledge, and I've always wondered what Israeli sentiment REALLY is. My basic instinct is that the weak position of Israel is exacerbated by withdrawals and surrender. Israel is surrounded by fanatical enemies who have sworn her destruction and is in a very precarious position with enemy armies massed at the gates. Yet, on the other hand, I would be pleased to be proved wrong if this olive branch were to really facilitate "peace". Yet, I mused that to decipher the world's madness, just follow the money or oil, drugs, precious resources, etc. Please note this article which speaks to newly discovered gas off Gaza being under contract from "British Gas" to be sold to Israel and Egypt: www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=88859 Now, lest I sound like a conspiracy believer, but the gas contract would account for the sudden inexplicable about-face and withdrawal from Gaza. Last night whilst in a drunken haze I ruminated as to why a British company has a contract to distribute gas off the coast of Israel. Yep, just follow the armies and war and you will find the pith of it: ie money. The inescable conclusion is that terror is really being used by western corporate powers similar to union busting thugs. I humbly submit that if not for the terrorists, British Gas would not be dealing gas found right off the coast of Israel to Israel! Read 'em and weep, it's time for a drink. Cheers and Shalom.
7. To Michael
Jordi Gomis ,   Barcelona, Catalunya   (08.30.05)
Very good...at least someone with common sense in this world. To Nr 3, you show how democratic you are with your comments... by the way, if you ever get unemployed (I pray god it's doesn't happen), when you still get money from the government, don't forget to give a big "thanks" to what you call "left". שלום ואהבה לישראל
8. re: Real Likud
Nadav ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (08.30.05)
I am a member of the Likud and support the Prime Minister's withdrawal from Gaza 100%!! The real right is the national-secular right, which unfortuntely (much like in the USA) has been highjacked by religious fanatics. What the witdrawal proved is that the citizens of Israel, and not those who claim to talk on behalf of God (nor gentile world leaders for that matter), are the ones who decide what the borders of israel will be! As sad as it was to see Jews removed from their homes, it was a sacrifice for the over-all good o the State.
9. Re. #8
Lenny ,   USA   (08.30.05)
But thats the problem- its *not* for the good of the entire Jewish people in Israel! One may wish this and pray for this, but it isnt the reality! Former Chief of Staff Yaalon, as well as former head of Shin Bet have both explained very clearly that this plan is simply ridiculous and foolish/dangerous from a security standpoint. While everyone would *love* if we could just pullout from certain areas and have peace, it is simply the reality that this is not the case. The fact is that the army will have to be very active for the forseeable future, and any concession regarding land etc. will only, heaven forbid, bring much pain and damage to their abilities to protect themselves and those who they are defending. I believe that problem lies in this: many people seem to be judging the other side as though they are equals- ie. they have similar goals, desires, and tendencies. Yet the truth is not like that. Both in the US and in Israel there are many who dont realize the nature of the enemy. They are not the kind of people who are deterred by anything but force. Force alone is what can deter them. Together with a plan for educating their children away from the type of culture that they're being brought up in today. In other words, the feeling of a desire for peace at all costs is, I believe, shared by literally everyone in Israel. However, the differences come about when looking at the objective reality: some are willing to face it, while others believe that unilateral moves and concessions in the way of a hoped-for peace is the only option, period. Also, I think it should be noted that the opposition which actually *lost* to Sharon had a plan of disengagement from Gaza, yet Sharon very firmly took a stand against that plan, and this is the platform that the people voted in. Thus, it seems clear, that the people of Israel itself are in fact not supportive of such a plan. It isnt even a matter of a debate- they voted for a platform which was in opposition to unilateral disengagements... In addition, were the people in fact for the plan, why was there no general referendum carried out? Myself, as well as I believe every Jew, wishes for peace in Israel and in fact for the entire world. However, its the method of achieving this goal which brings about differences in approach. Some believe that we can in fact believe in the goodness of the enemy, and that itself (together with actions in the spirit of peace) will ultimately bring about a true peace. While others choose to look at the facts: there is a huge enemy out there who is actively determined to destroy you. The only thing that can be done which will have a true and guaranteed effect is to use force in defending the people. It is very upsetting (and more than that) the fact that we will have to learn these facts in such a way. Why cant the country take a step back and view the situation for what it truly is and not be delusional on a hoped-for calm? Why must Jewish sacrifices have to start falling each time in order for the government to wake up and see the reality? May we hear *true* good new. And I believe that this will only be the case if Israel stands firm and strong in its determination and resolve. Lenny
10. Re # 8 Nadav
Freddy Speaker ,   Antwerp   (08.30.05)
Yea Nnadav especialy since u # have to move!! & weren't kickrd out of ur house!
11. As long as you tear each other apart
Stephen ,   Raleigh, NC   (08.31.05)
I suppose it's all for the PLO's benefit. Seemingly you're all too obsessed with your differences you've come to hate your common ground. Oh well, it wouldn't be the first time the Jewish state collapsed under the weight of tolerating itself to death.
12. Re. 11
Lenny ,   USA   (08.31.05)
Differences in opinion is very healthy- and should be something that is encouraged and not discouraged. THe fact that one believes in a method which is illogical and dangerous, doesnt mean that his right to an opnion should be muted. Its only through such dialogue that things can be worked out. The question is how two people who disagree in fact treat each other- do they become physical enemies, or do they hear out each position equally and leave room for another's opinion. Senseless hatred based on ones own ideas vs another's is of course wrong and should be pushed out completely and totally. But in and of itself, to simply disagree with something or someone, is not a bad thing at all. Only I am truly upset that people could be convinced, as #8 seems to think, that giving away land and 'compromising' will bring about peace or quiet. I think that in this situation that is simply a flight from reality. Anyone who has spent time or dealt with the Arab/Muslim culture must know this. It is simply not the same way of thinking as the Western one is. And definitely not anything remotely similar to the Jewish one.
JERRY BORIS ,   PHILA USA   (09.03.05)
14. The Bankruptcy Of The Left's Selective "Humanism"
Adina kutnicki ,   NJ   (11.15.05)
You proved the left not only to be deluded in the extreme, but also morally bankrupt. I would add for good measure that when MK's from the left stated that they would lie down on railroad tracks before they would allow Arab transfer, they were the ones who demonized the right for demonstrations and road blockings. While Peretz has blocked nearly every highway with his thuggish strikes, and has cost the country billions in lost production etc, he is not being jailed, nor is he vilified by the self appointed "elite" in Israel. There you have it. Exposed like the emperor without his clothes.
15. You are all stuck in the past!!
edan ,   israel   (12.19.05)
The jews are no longer martyrs so stop thinking as such!!! First of all, i am a so-called "leftist" (though the term basically means nothing to me) and if any of you out there think that I am a self-hating Jew or that I prefer arabs to jews or that I am a traitor I just wish you would say it to my face !! If you do, you might get your face rearranged...Now, as someone who served in a combat unit in the IDF I know who has the upper hand . I also know that the status quo is unnacceptable. In 1994 a precedent was made. It has been a long and hard 11 years but it is a long way from settled. However we must move towards a permanent settlement("peace") because that is the only way to bring security and prosperity to the region. I have heard the argument over and over again that it'll never be enough for them, they'll want more, there will never be peace because they hate us...blah blah blah. Fact is we'll never know untill we try. Now I suppose those on the "right" will say to me that i'm naive. Thats OK cuz deep down I know that my logic is rooted in youthful spirituality, while yours belongs to the past. What do I mean by youthful spirituality ?: Only by making a final settlement with the Palestinians can we hasten the coming of the messiah. And Jerusalem is and will always be the capital of the Jews no matter what political "entity" controls it. You are stuck in a mindset of the Jew (yourself) as an eternal victim. We (the Jews) now have the power to determine our own fate so let us stop feeling sorry for ourselves. We are strong and will remain strong even with a "divided" Jerusalem and a Palestinian state. Hashem does not look favorably upon those who place a premium on land instead of the well-being and security of their people. The land is holy, yes : but we just desecrate and disgrace it buy continuing to fight with our neighbors.
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