Opinion  Others
Beilin's 'final solution'
Israel Eichler
Published: 01.11.05, 21:29
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31. Halacha (esp. to MIchael)
Daniel Stone ,   Israel   (11.02.05)
Judaism is rabbinic interpration of the oral and written law - halacha. You might think that a law against eating pork is stupid, or that not turning on a light on Shabbat is stupid, or that laying tephillin every morning is stupid, or not eating meat and milk together is stupid. What you think however (and you are perfectly entitled to your own opinions) doesn't change the fact that halacha is halacha - even if it is stupid (or sounds stupid). So yes, if your mother is a Jew then you are a Jew by Jewish law (even if you are a practising Catholic priest) and if your mother is not Jewish then you are not Jewish - even if you are an expert in all things Yiddishkeit. You can be a mench, a wonderful human being, etc. but you are not a Jew unless you convert. This is Jewish law and has been for 2000 years. Those people who care about Judaism will convert, those who don't will not - and they don't have to. They are not "lesser" people, they are not somehow less important - but they are not Jews. If the rabbis ever get together to change the halacha (which who knows - maybe they will) perhaps halacha can be changed - BUT and big BUT - it is not up to the likes of self-hating and ignorant Jews (such as Yossi Beillin) with no understanding of Jewish law to use this contentious point to score politically. I would suggest that ultimately Israel is becoming more and more religious anyway (by means of demographics - religious have lots of kids, secular have very few), emigration of secular Jews and an end to mass aliyah from the ex-USSR. Before the latest aliyah, approximately 20% of the Israeli Jewish population were shomer shabat - this number has remained constant in spite of a 20% increase in poulation (secular and non-Jewish Russian olim). Secular school numbers are beginning to dwindle, and it is estimated that in 10 years time 33% of first graders will be attending haredi schools. National religious schools are also increasing in numbers. So, do the math... Already 25% of the Jewish vote goes to religious parties and this is just going to increase exponentially in the coming years. Israel will be a religious country with a religious majority within about 2 or 3 generations. However, we are not like the muslims - Judaism is tolerant (unlike many secular people today who are, unfortunately, extremely intolerant). The best news is that Meretz, with a tiny 5% or so of the Jewish vote is going to become even less relevant. Dr Beilin is an arrogant, ignorant idiot - and, in fact, very intolerant.
32. #31 Like hell!
Michael Steiner ,   Praha, EU   (11.02.05)
"Judaism is rabbinic interpration of the oral and written law - halacha." Oh no, it isn't! Judaism most certainly is NOT halakha. Our foundation is haTorah because without haTorah there is no halakha, there are no rabis, there are no Jews and there's no Judaism. All those rules you cited (eating pork, tefilin, kindling fire and completing circuits, etc.) are not halakhic rules but rules from haTorah. By contrast, rules such as sitting down during the recitation of the Sh'ma or these appertaining to lineage are PURELY rabinic in origin. These rabis may have had best of intentions in devising these regulations but never forget that they WERE and ARE only HUMANS. Indeed, the provisions concerning maternal descent for the consideration of Jewish origins is actually AGAINST haTorah (v. e.g. Bamidbar 1). And it is against common sense. And anyway, as I wrote previously, unlike haTorah, halakha by its very name is not something that's static and written in stone. I'll gloss over your cheap shots at politicians and political options you disagree with. Gloat all you will but the vast majority of Israelis are actually not interested in religion at all.
33. A short sighted and small minded rabbi
Micha ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (11.02.05)
Rabbi Israel Eichler”s article does not demonstrate the thinking of a learned and thoughtful rabbi, but rather the short sightedness and small mindedness of a bigot. He is a haradi and has, in his opinion, ownership of the truth. Only people of his ilk know what G-d wants. His type have turned halacha into an idol to be worshiped rather than a means for understanding and fulfilling G-s will. Humility and compassion is lacking in this man which is not surprising given that he is a politician. He talks of “genealogical purity.” However, he himself looks very European and without doubt has non-Jewish blood in his veins. This cannot be camouflaged by peot (side locks). The matrilineal principle is not written in the Torah. It is an halachic principle determined by rabbis from the Talmudic period. Because it is halacha we are bound by it. However the rabbis have the power to change halacha. This they have done many times. In my humble opinion is very cruel to shut out people who have a Jewish father but not a Jewish mother. Nevertheless the halacha is important and must be respected. The answer, therefore, is for the rabbis to change this law or at least make halachic conversion easy for these people. The halacha is a means not an end. We must not deify the halacha. The Torah is on earth not in Heaven. The rabbis could fix up this issue easily if they had the courage and the will to do so. We should embrace these people with love and compassion and welcome them into our tribe as full members.
34. reply to Michael
Daniel Stone ,   Israel   (11.02.05)
Michael, you are now demonstrating your ignorance. Try to learn a little about Judaism before you attempt to be an expert on it. I suggest Pardes, the Conservative Yeshiva or even HUC. Even the most liberal institutions will tell you what Judaism is - whether they agree with its practice is another thing altogether. Even the reform movement accepts that halacha exists, but chooses to change it - which is fine if they want to do so. As for your examples, Kindling fire and (the waiting period between) meat with milk are excellent examples of rabbinic interpretation of the oral law. The torah tells us certain things, but the oral law qualifies this - eg. what is considered "work" on shabbat, etc. At the moment approximately 20% of Israeli Jews are shomer shabat with another 30% traditional - these numbers are increasing all the time. Secular birthrate in Israel is one of the lowest in the Western World and religious birthrate is very high. Secular people are leaving in droves (60,000 over the last 3 years) and Aliyah from the West is highly proportiately religious. Russian Aliyah has more or less dried-up and 10% of Russians (if not more) have left already. You may not like the demographic facts happening here in Israel, but they are, none-the-less, facts.
35. A hateful "rabbi"
Shlomo ,   Israel   (11.02.05)
This "rabbi" is a truely hateful man. A racist and a fundamentalist. I am sure that G-d would be appauled with his attitutes and paucity of the spirit of Torah. May G-d save Israel from rabbis of this type.
36. The real haters
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (11.02.05)
Are the ones here who are showing the utter contempt that they have for Judaism and the people who observe it. By a strange coincidence, these same people (Beilin and his cheerleaders) also hate Israel and would like to see it overrun and destroyed by terrorists.
37. immigration
Caro ,   Beaver,USA   (11.02.05)
The "Promise" was for the physical seed of Jacob to inherit the Land.Not the creed. It is already a prophetic done deal. the near furure will show this,DNA will be the judge on who is an Israeli.Torah,not some specific brand of Judaism, will govern the land,and, yes ,the Hassidim and other Orthodxx Jews will still be around and worshiping in their traditional manners. Why not? They will still be considered Israelis by Israel even if they still believe the State of Israel does not exist.Traditions of worship,as long as they do not conflict with Torah, will be numerous and protected. Shalom,Caro...Am Yisrael Chhhhhai (:
38. RABBI
kim ,   Roanoke USA   (11.03.05)
i LOVE THIS COUNTRY BECAUSE i WAS TOLD i COULD CHOOSE A GOD OF MY OWN UNDERSTANDING. MY GOD LOVES EVERYONE.iFEEL IF THE PALESTINIANS WANT TO CLAIM THEIRSELVES AS JEWS THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO DO SO BUT ITS NOT MY COUNTRY SO THEREFORE I'LL JUST PRAY FOR THEM ALL & I DON'T THINK GOD WOULD EVEN CARE TO SORT THEM OUT BECAUSE WE WERE ALL PUT HERE TO LIVE TOGETHER
39. The Law is the Law
Malaika ,   NYC/Tel-Aviv   (11.03.05)
People, you have to understand that Jewish Law is clear on who is and is not a Jew. It's not a question of what you would like to see. It's a question of what the Law states. If the Laws of England state that you must drive on the left side of the street, but as an American this is inconvenient for you and you get into accidents because you are used to driving on the right, should England change its laws just to make life easier for you? Now, a bunch of people could petition the British government to have it changed - but that is a different story. Until Halacha changes to allow patrilenial descent amongst ALL streams of Judaism and not just the Reform (who formally recognized patrilenial descent maybe 10 years ago or so), people must just deal with the current state of affairs that deems only children of Jewish mothers or those who have done a Halachic (i.e., Orthodox, or maybe sometimes a serious Conservative) conversion Jewish. If you don't like it, argue with the Orthodox Rabbis - like Eichler. You could start a movement within Orthodoxy as people have on behalf of Agunot - if you are prepared to argue from an Orthodox legal perspective as Agunot and some in favor of mixed seating have done and NOT say, "because it's easier/more open/freer/more convenient". The Jewish religion is an inconvenient one, from Shabbat to kashrut to taharas hamichpacha (family purity laws that don't allow a maried couple to have sex for 2 weeks out of every month) to who and who is not a Jew. Now, you might go and break the law, but you cannot change what that law is and is not in order to legitimize your transgressions.
40. Cross purposes the lot of it
Stephen Duke ,   London   (11.03.05)
At no point does the author attempt to counter the logic of the argument behind Beilin's central idea. Rather than accepting christian children as jewish, it is actually a quite different principle, i.e. accepting Jewish status as being derived from either the mother or the father. Eichler makes no attempt to demonstrate in which ways this might be a bad idea. He merely shouts alarmist conclusions, more diatribe than reasoned debate. For example, stating that this change would bring about the end of the Jewish people, without making any attempt to explain why this might be a reasonable conclusion to draw. However what come across more strikingly than ever is the divide between the orthodox and non-orthodox world. Whilst Eichler's whole argument is predicated on his assumptions about the behaviour and thought of the non-orthodox community, Eichler simply demonstrates how unreliable his assumptions are because they are simply not true. What Eichler completely fails to address is; why if these secular Jews are so useless as Jews, the fact that their mother as opposed to their father is Jewish is significant enough to confer Jewish status? If two people have identical upbringing and as adults both are non-observant in orthodox eyes; why is it that the one who considers themselves Jewish, wants to be part of the Jewish nation and intends to give their children a Jewish education but who's mother is not Jewish, is less worthy of accpetance into the bosom of the Jewish people than the other, who has despite having a jewish mother has no interest in anything Jewish, does not consider themselves a part of the Jewish people and is unwilling to give their children a Jewish education? I undertand their are halachic grounds to his objection but Eichler makes no defence of these halachic principles, he merely repeats them. One is left thinking that Eichler has no real arguments at all.
41. Protagonist of History
Lev ,   New York   (11.04.05)
I know religious people will say it's blasphemy and call me a heretic for saying so, but I believe the Jewish People is bigger than Israel, bigger than the Torah and even bigger than God (which any rational person will agree is a fiction, albeit a powerful and beautiful one). One could say that the Jew is the protagonist of world history, which is why his/her nation, holy book and concept of divinity is at the center of that history. Oh, and I agree with Stephen Duke that the matrilinear rule is absurdly unfair to Jewish men who fall in love with gentile women and yet wish to remain part of the Tribe.
42. Bielin's Folly
sylvan carr ,   new york, new york   (11.05.05)
Bielin is adapt at creating new recipies for disaster.At one and the same a proud Israeli and a self-hating Jew he should not meddle in murky waters that have already been overtrodden in Jewish History. Has he already forgotten the Holocaust? I suggest Bieling should be forced to read Bryan Mark Rigg's book " Hitler's Jewish Soldiers", It is about the Christian offspring of Jewish parents who so hated their Jewish ancestry as to be willing to join in the massacre of the Jews.. While not on all fours with this analogy there are some consequences that would have to follow Bieling's novel creation of new mischlings. In this reverse process of pseudo conversion won't we have to establish a Jewish Court of Inquisition to regulate some sort of supervison of these instant mix Jews? What will happen if these new conversos practise Islam clandestinely ? Keeping Shabbos but also reading the Koran on Fridays. Eating both hallal and kosher/ What happens if their children marry Christian or Moslen goyim? Do they go back or are they then in religious limbo? We already have Christian spouses of Jews in Amertica going to shool on Shabbos or Yom Kippur and attending Church on Sundays and MIdnight Mass . As the British vernacular has it we have a right cock-up. I look forward to BIeling's inquisitors breaking up a secret Ramadam observance, fasting or eating under the synagogue while the davening goes on above, It is a wild scnario
43. What the solution should be
Lois D. ,   Baltimore, Md./USA   (11.06.05)
The very first thing is to recognize the Palestinians and their children regardless of their religious background, and to also recognize their right of return under the law which has nothing to do with religion. Also, why should the Muslim and Christian population have any feeling for the name "Israel." Israel has already told them, even though they are the natives of the land, that they are enemies, that they are not equal citizens of the state, and even Israel's national anthem tells all non-Jews what the name Israel should mean to them. Israel came about by their dispossession and because of the horrific crimes in Europe for which the Palestinians paid. Would would anyone support an Aryan state that treated all its non-Aryan citizens as enemies? Are there no lessons to be learned from history?
44. Dear Lois
Jonah ,   LA   (11.06.05)
First of all, if you were to create a Palestinian right of return, you would lose having the only Jewish state in the world, which wouldn't be very fair since you have dozens of Christian and Moslem states. btw what on earth is an "Aryan state"? Are you referring to the Nazi Reich and likening it to Israel? If so, it is you who need to learn some lessons about history. And I suggest you take a trip to Israel where you will see 1 million Arab Christians & Muslims (20% of the Israeli population) who live in relative peace and prosperity and are not treated as "enemies" but as fellow citizens.
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