Jewish Scene
Jewish group seeks Jackson apology
Reuters
Published: 24.11.05, 22:56
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26 Talkbacks for this article
1.  APOLOGY FROM JACKSON?????????
DEBRA ,   USA   (11.25.05)
MJ IS THE BIGGEST PERVERTED LOSER ON THE PLANET. I DEMAND THAT HE DROP DEAD.
2. DANIEL PIPES -
(11.25.05)
Throughout his career, Daniel Pipes has exhibited a troubling bigotry toward Muslims and Islam. As early as 1983, even an otherwise positive Washington Post book review noted that Pipes displays "a disturbing hostility to contemporary Muslims...he professes respect for Muslims but is frequently contemptuous of them." Pipes, said the reviewer, "is swayed by the writings of anti-Muslim writers...[the book] is marred by exaggerations, inconsistencies, and evidence of hostility to the subject." (The Washington Post, 12/11/83) In The Weekly Standard (1/22/96), Pipes offered a glowing review of the infamous anti-Muslim book "Why I Am Not a Muslim." The National Catholic Reporter (11/17/95) called that book "the literary equivalent of hate radio...literary warfare against Islam," useful only to those "interested in returning to the polemical past to do battle with Islamic believers." Pipes called the book "quite brilliant" and "startlingly novel." "This religion would seem to have nothing functional to offer," remarked Pipes. Recently, Pipes questioned the origins of the Quran, Islam's revealed text, and questioned whether the Prophet Muhammad ever existed. He wrote: "The Koran is a not 'a product of Muhammad or even of Arabia,' but a collection of earlier Judeo-Christian liturgical materials stitched together to meet the needs of a later age...A few scholars go even further, doubting even the existence of Muhammad." (The Jerusalem Post, 5/12/2000) According to Pipes, the night journey of the Prophet Muhammad from Mecca to Jerusalem referred to in the Quran (17:1) never occurred. This event, known as "al-Isra wa al-Miraj," is marked each year by millions of Muslims worldwide. In the Los Angeles Times, Pipes wrote: "The Prophet Mohammed never went to the city, nor did he have ties to it." (7/21/2000) Pipes also displays a racist's distaste for Muslim immigrants who "wish to import the customs of the Middle East and South Asia." (Los Angeles Times, 7/22/99) For Pipes, this sort of raw bigotry is nothing new. In 1990, he said: "Western European societies are unprepared for the massive immigration of brown-skinned peoples cooking strange foods and maintaining different standards of hygiene...All immigrants bring exotic customs and attitudes, but Muslim customs are more troublesome than most." (National Review, 11/19/90) In a review of a book that called for dialogue with the Muslim world, Pipes objected to the fact that the author: "...fails to...consider the implications of growing Muslim populations in the West. [The book], in other words, provides little guidance to the Islamic threat." (Wall Street Journal, 10/30/92) On a radical pro-Israel web site, Pipes claims that "as the population of Muslims in the United States grows, so does antisemitism." ("The New Anti-Semitism," http://freeman.io.com/m_online/jan98/pipes.htm) He does not limit this claim to Arab Muslims alone. Pipes wrote that "Iranians and Pakistanis, to take two groups of non-Arabs, are at least as widely conspiracy-minded and as anti-Semitic as, say, Tunisians and Kuwaitis." (Commentary, 9/1/99) Of African-American Muslims, Pipes wrote: "...black converts tend to hold vehemently anti-American, anti-Christian, and anti-Semitic attitudes." (Commentary, 6/1/2000)
3. Fat chance for apology, he loves arab boys now.
Bunnie Meyer ,   Santa Monica, CA   (11.25.05)
4. In Defense of Pipes
Mikey ,   Bronx, NY   (11.25.05)
Any religion which promises paradise and sex with 70 virgins for people who explode on buses, negates its own legitimicy. Where are the "Moderate" Muslim leaders? Where are the condemnations of murderers who murder in the name of Alla??? Until Muslim leaders categorically and uniformly condem these atrocities, Islam will continue to be regarded as a terrorist religion.
5. What's your point? (2)
Shai ,   Israel   (11.25.05)
First, if you're the infamous no name commentator of these pages, you have had no small portion of your own anti-Jewish commentary. If you don't like what Pipes is saying, imagine what we're thinking when you say the things you say about Jews in a newspaper that caters mostly to Jewish readers (if you're that person). Next, rather than only recounting what Pipes said, or his opinions which are no more relevant than mine or yours, what you wrote would be more interesting, and frankly unique amongst supporters of Islam, if you would dispute statements like "black converts to Islam _tend to be_ anti-semitic". Maybe it's true, but it's just not polite to say so? I don't have any evidence that points in a different direction, and I'd like to see it if you do. The observation sounds reasonable based on my experience with black converts to Islam, so it doesn't surprise me. My comment to you is similar with the other quotes you repeat - most of the statements Pipes makes that you complain about are, it seems to me, "Muslim baiting". Poor mannered, perhaps, but it resonates with what we are seeing out there. As such then, there is nothing outright and obviously false with what you repeated, and some of the claims about Mohammed's past and the construction of the Koran seem to be reasonable conclusions for somebody who doesn't share Muslims' faith in their version of biblical history. So if you have scholarly backup to dispute what he said, provide it. Otherwise, why bring it up? What I'm saying is that if you want respect, earn it. Don't expect us to just sit back and feel uncomfortable at Pipes' Muslim baiting when in fact, we're all trying to figure out what Muslims are and what they want from the rest of us, and if in fact they really aren't out to even the score for the West's ascension over the last several centuries rather than to live side by side in peace as you probably would claim.
6. #2--- and your point is???
joe ,   philly, pa.   (11.25.05)
daniell pipes ,who has nothing to do with the jackson article, btw, is a great scholar ,and a defender of the faith. he has the guts ,the insight ,and the intelligence to call muslims what they are--- the enemy of the free western societies! daniel pipes is a true hero in his generation for verbalizing what so many of us think and don't always say... if he is against muslims ... well,, he p robably has plenty of reasons , just like allthe victims of islamic terror.
7. Michael Jackson
Nick ,   Minneapolis, USA   (11.25.05)
Michael Jackson is a joke! Can there be another person as perverted and filthy as him on Earth? Well, maybe I guess, but none that I can think of in the entertainment industry. Jackson has repeatedly shown the world just how weird and irrelevant he truely is. When was the last time this guy got any press other than his child molestation trials? In fact, he has to live in Bahrain so he does not get his children taken away from him back in the United States. I think the next time Jackson wants to open his mouth, he should shove a gun into it and pull the trigger. A bit extereme I know, but at least then the world would be a safer place for little boys. I think Jackson needs to do us all a favor and just fade into the history books as the child molesting hack that he is.
8. The Point is,,,,,
(11.25.05)
--- Daniel Pipes is a public figure (ok,not as famous as Jackson) that spews venomous and bigotted remarks, classifying a 1.3 billion large population into one lump- This is racism- This is what is dangerous- Not All JEWS are leeches, but some might be- not all muslims are terrorists and sexists but some may be. Besides terrorists have existed in many groups, Tim Mcveigh (American),The Irish (catholics and protestant), the Jews in early days of Israel (king david hotel). actually , recently-those 2 American Jews that wanted to blow up the mosque (from the JDL) that were recently murdered in jail- But I sure dont say ALL jews are terrorists or all Irish are etc. You cant classifying a whole group by a few bad apples- and as # 6 says so boldly in his letter the MUSLIMS are the enemy of the west. HOW CAN you say that? have you traveled? Most muslims dont care either way- THE POINT IS YOU ARE BEING HYPOCRITES. Allowing muslim bashing but JEWS get into a tizzy about some 2 year old off -handed remark on a telephone, said by some guy in financial distress. I actually think this slander of a private phone conversation is a calculated move to ruin Michaels public reputation- though he , with the child molestation allegations, did the job quite well himself.
9. #4 Mikey You're Wrong -- it's not 70 Virgins
Seth ,   Washington, DC   (11.26.05)
Muhammad Bin-Molest has been promised 72 virgins in return for converting and the local imam promises him that all of them are boys
10. MOTHER OF JACKSON'S TWO ELDEST CHILDREN IS A JEW
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (11.26.05)
He also needs to apologize to his own children. From part of article: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,108328,00.html Jacko Bombshell: 'Jewish' Ex-Wife vs. Nation of Islam Wednesday, January 14, 2004 By Roger Friedman Michael Jackson and His Ex-Wife Jacko Bombshell: 'Jewish' Ex-Wife vs. Nation of Islam Debbie Rowe, Michael Jackson's ex-wife and the mother of his two eldest children, is worried her kids are becoming Muslims. In the last few days, Rowe has complained to friends that she does not want her children, Paris and Prince, exposed to the Nation of Islam. Jackson and his kids are currently living in the most expensive "safe house" in history, a Beverly Hills mansion rented, patrolled and monitored by the group. But the reason Rowe is upset is a surprising one and heretofore unknown. She has told these friends that she is Jewish, and that the children, by birth, are Jewish, too.
11. Michael jackson
Andrew Mainz ,   Potomac, U.S.A.   (11.26.05)
Mr. jackson is comsumed with jealousy and the fact that he is in a free-fall from fame. he blames the popular Jews who are the traditional scape-goats. Mr. jackson needs to look at himself and see where the issues are and leave the jewish peope out of his pathetic world.
12. How one person managed to completely shift the issue here...
Tahl ,   Israel   (11.26.05)
Of the 8 talkbacks I see so far, 5 are either from this anonymous provocateur, whose post has absolutely nothing to do with the news article here, or from those who responded to him. People wake up, the story here is about Wacko Jacko! Don't waste your time and patience answering irrelevant and detached posts, however infuriating they are. You only reinforce their legitimacy. Anyway, regarding Wacko Jacko - until recently, I actually had a few shreds of sympathy left for him, being so weak and vulnerable, and all... I felt like he was persecuted by the media too harshly. But now, as he offended me and my people, whatever little sympathy I had for him, is gone.
13. #2, and stupidity
Sigfried S. Kuhn ,   Aberdeen Md. USA   (11.26.05)
Ir never ceases to amaze me of how stupid bigots are. First of all, bigotry is wrong-period. To excuse Michael Jackson's disgusting comments by accusing another person (of course a Jewish person) of bigotry does not make what Michael Jackson said as somehow less wrong. Second and most importantly, Daniel Pipes has never attacked Muslims in any way. His target are the Islamists--those nazi-like demons who use Islam as an excuse to murder innocent humans as a way of gaining supremacy for what they believe is the master religion. These Islamists have no conscience and are convinced that they have the right to kill anyone---as we see in the attacks on Muslim worshippers in Iraq and the Muslim wedding in Jordan. I guess #2 approves of this indiscriminate and senseless murders by a group of evil fanatics. After all, he attacks Daniel Pipes for criticizing these fiends. Lastly, probably less than 10% of the population has any idea as to whom Daniel Pipes is. I'm sure that Michael Hackson has well over 90% recognition. So you see, #2, you are either an idiot, a pathogical liar, or someone who is so blinded by your hatred that you don't let reality enter your sick world.
14. To 8
Shai ,   Israel   (11.27.05)
No where in the quotes you mentioned did Pipes say "ALL" Muslims are ______. So where's the hypocracy? Not even all the opinions listed were his own! Anyway, it doesn't make a difference. Muslims are largely passive in the face of terrorists amongst them, and very many are even supportive. I would sure like to see them speak out with as much gusto against the extremists amongst them as the Jews did against the terrorists of the King David Hotel, or against the Meir Kehana affiliated terrorists you mentioned. I don't feel that terrorists amongst Jews is anything we need to apologize for when at least we did something about it. And what are the Muslims doing about it? Nadda. In the end, it's not about the miscreants we have amongst us in each group, but the responsibility we take OURSELVES for ensuring they can't do damage. The Jewish record on this is FAR better than the Muslim record, across the board. We have nothing to be sorry for. The Muslims have a great deal of catch up to do before they can compare.
15. Gotta love it...for better or worse ADL is there!
(11.26.05)
using every opportunity to grab a headline here and pinch a subheadline there! who cares of Michael Jackson apologizes. at the end of the day he's just another empty vessel...just like Madonna.
16. Who the heck cares....
Tom ,   Israel   (11.28.05)
This is part of the problem - "Beynei Elokim vaadam" - find favor in Hashem's eyes first. Stop caring what the rest of the world thinks. Have pride in who and what we are. Only then will the rest of the world respect us. They may still hate us but they will respect. This is a probelm on the governmenr level (always caring what America or Europe cares) and trickeles down to the individual. Why the heck should I care what what america think? Who the heck gives what europe thinks?If they think good of us they'll potect and save us? Tell that to the family members of the 6 million slaughtered as the amazing europe and the loving america sat by and watch. For sake - we need to have pride and be proud of wha and what we are and who we represent.
17. ATT:******YNET************
DACON9   (11.29.05)
I AM REALLY SICK OF MICHAEL JACKSON PICTURE HERE..DONT YOUTHINK ITS TIME DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE YOU TO FUMAGATE, CLEAN OUT THE INSECTS FROM THIS SITE NOW? YNET..PLEASEEEE TAKE THE TRACH OFF
18. #2
Jane ,   New York   (11.28.05)
You are so boring as to be overwhelming. Poor, poor Muslims. They hate and kill everyone but cannot handle criticism. Take it from a dhimmi.
19. #2 So what's your point?
AK   (11.29.05)
Daniel Pipes is right -- Koran is a mishmash of Jewish and Christian stories, which where mostly misrepresented and misunderstood; the night journey from the mosque fartherest away was a dream, or allegory and not an actual journey and you cannot prove otherwise. You can believe whatever you want, provided it doesn't injure anybody else, and we have a right with analyzing, disagreeing and questioning any religion, including Islam. Your religion misrepresents Judaism and Christianity, and we don't call you names, at least not for that alone.
20. Linda, I don't feel sorry for the mother.
AK   (11.29.05)
But I definitely feel sorry for the children.
21. How many Black American Jews are there?
Adrienne McCambry ,   Gardena U.S.   (11.29.05)
Hello my name is Adrienne McCambry and I amintrested to know how black American Jews lived in the Uinted States abd Isreak? Thank you very much.
22. Schwerne and Goodman died for nothing.
(12.05.05)
This savage has Jewish blood on his hands.
23. Hmm..
Angel ,   Al Manamah, Bahrain   (12.10.05)
debra, Sorry your not god, ya not allah, ya not the holy one. and extremely ignorant, so thank above you aint. Bunnie Meyer, he loves all children. Just your sick minded to put sex into it. Nick, have you ever met michael? cos if you did, ya wouldnt be saying those thing. I wish people would give benefit of a doubt, ya mikes a bit different, but lived a life no one will or has ever lived. he isn't a joke. he is extremely smart, and caring. He has never molested anyone. I will speak up for him cos i am one of his young friends, i'm 16 now, and we are still close. I'm sick of stupid mofo people thinkin they know him, when they don't. There are more sick mofo'rs in the entertainment industry, there are people who sell children in the bizz for sex, i was in the room when one of the former child stars were talking about it, he was telling michael, the only adult he could trust, cos michael never harmed him, treated him like an equal, like a friend, like a brother. is it so hard to try to understand, to see that maybe michael isnt a freak, just different. Linda Rivera, you right, his two children are jewish, what was said in that convo, was taken outta context and edited, he was taking about 2 individuals, not a race/religion. But id doesnt matter to people, they want blood. Andrew Mainz, he doesnt blame jewish people, some of his best friends are jewish, alot of his lawyers are jewish, brian oxman long time lawyer for him and his family, jewish. he was here not to long ago. Michael loves all people. he only dislikes the ones who harm others not cos of their race. Tahl, he doesnt hate your people, he loves your people. hes been fucked with 2 individual, who he was talking about there names and events were edited out of the message which is normally for american media, always filtered. Michael says things that aint always tactful he has some social skills he has to work on, but he isn't a racist. Jane, not all muslims are bad, not all of them wanna kill people. if you dont want your people judged as whole, then dont do it to others. but maybe you do wanna be judged as a whole. i know i dont. AK, no need to they are in good hands. all 3 of his children, well educated, well loved, well cared for, in perfect health. Michael spoke with me, saying he is tired of being michael jackson the superstar, that is not his goal anymore, hasnt been for awhile. He wants people alone so he can be Michael the father, the parent, he doesnt want to be the superstar anymore, thats not him. he is dedicated to his family. not many fathers are these days, at least from what ive seen. most dads are too busy with work for their kids. He takes a place in their education, Like he has made fun ways for them to learn, he has these bears with all the states, he has wanted to make them for countries for each continent. but hasnt finished the order yet. but anyways. with the states, theres a map for which when the bears are on the right state it will gives facts and praise to the child. it will ask the children questions give them multi options and they learn. he takes great pride in learning with them. Let me get a speech that michael did in oxford for everyone, hmm wouldnt fit. oh well.. ill find a link. couldnt find a place so i uploaded it: http://www.geocities.com/undead_korine/speeche.htm
24. Jews so "Sensitive"
richard Hitchings ,   methil   (12.14.05)
Its time for jew to stop wynjing every time they here something they do not approove of... It really just pisses the world off.... Its not for a Scotsman to tell jews this ...but ...We really just pissed off with jews in general because of this in part.... Stand up and be a proper man instead of being wynjy shitty Prats
25. t to #1-MJ AINT A LOSER, HES A WINNER!!!!
aej ,   australia   (12.23.05)
HOW COULD YOU CALL MIKE THE BIGGEST PERVERTED LOSER ON THE PLANET? TELL ME WHAT MAKES HIM A LOSER!! AND WHAT IF TOMORROW HE DID DROP DEAD,HUH? WHEN THEY SHOW ON TV ALL THAT HE ACCOMPLISHED SINCE A CHILD AND HOW HE HELPED MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE AS A SPECIAL TRIBUTE TO HIM THEN WOULD YOU FEEL SORRY? OR WOULD YOU MJ HATERS STILL THINK IT WAS FOR THE BEST? WELL THEN YOU PEOPLE CAN TAKE A HIKE BECAUSE IT WILL BE A LONG TIME BEFORE THE NAME MICHAEL JACKSON DIES DOWN EVEN WHEN HE DIES!!! WHY?? BECAUSE HE, STEVIE WONDER AND RAY CHARLES ARE THE BEST ENTERTAINERS EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!
26. #7--get a life!
aej ,   australia   (12.23.05)
what do you mean 'when was the last time this guy got any press other than his molestation trials?' what planet are you on mate? mike has been on THIS planet for 47 years now and hes gotten alot more press than you think and for GOOD things. And Michael isnt a joke, if he was we wouldnt even have heard of him as the King of Pop. he left America to get away from all the idiots who hate him and who are tryin to ruin his career. and if you still think that even after his trial he is a child molesting hack then you must seriously be suggesting that the members of the jury have no brains to fill an egg cup as they were the ones who found Mike innocent. If Joe Jackson heard all the crap that you say about his son then there is the chance that he would find you and box your eyes out!!! i rest my case.
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