Opinion  Others
European Israel
Sharon Pardo
Published: 28.11.05, 22:05
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1. Isn't it only natural to be skeptical of a continent
Uri   (11.28.05)
which has persecuted Jews in the worst ways imaginable for over a thousand years? Anti-Semitism is part of the European culture - just watch the BBC, go to a French dinner party, or read Der Spiegel. Jew hatred festers pretty much everywhere in Europe, along with the unremitting support and aid to those who want to eliminate the Jews. Just look at the poll that was cited in this article... 60% of Europeans believe that the Jewish state is the largest threat to world peace - not Iran, not Russia, not North Korea, not China, not Syria, not the other Arab states who openly call for the dissolution of Israel, etc. Europe is not a place where you will find morality. Prostitution is legalised in many of the countries. Euthanasia is rampant. There exists a culture that blames the victim and sympathises with the victimiser. Europe has abandoned enlightenment ideals and modernity. Instead of having a set of standards that apply to everything, Europeans have 'cultural relativity' (in its most extreme form). With this cultural relativity, it is perfectly acceptable if a Muslim man marries four women, beats them, and imprisons them, after all, it's his culture - who are we to criticise it. The wild anti-Semitism amongst Europes' ballooning Muslim population is often accompanied by fierce defence from the Europeans.... and so on. Europe and Israel will never have a normal relationship - especially so, considering that Europe will have a Muslim majority within 50 years. Until then, maintain the status quo. Trade agreements, and a kind smile. Nothing more will ever be achievable, and I am not in any way saddened by that.
2. yes, IF europe rethinks its aggressive policy towards israel
mike ,   usa   (11.28.05)
it's a 2-way street and since the europeans are so much smarter and sophisticated they should make the first steps by trying to appease israel, even if the palestinians are made unhappy. in truth, european friendship is not worth the risk at this point in time.
3. to URI
(11.29.05)
your statements, muslims marry two women ... wrong ... less than 1% of muslims do! beats them ... and imprisons them .... well .. let me ask you ... are you alien??? did you read about domestic violence in American? Israel? Asia? South America? Prostitution IS legal in Israel, i lived there buddy!! sorry, again ... are you ALIEN?
4. To Nameless No. 3 Where do you get your info?
David ,   Karmiel, Israel   (11.29.05)
Prostitution is certainly not legal in Israel. You are right though about family violence - it is rampant all over the world. You might like to know that Osama bin Laden has 4 wives. (The History Channel). Uri is basically right although a bit intolerant. I don't agree with Euthanasia but I don't think it is rampant. Prostitution should be legal - making it illegal serves no purpose except making it non-taxable income. It is the oldest profession in the world and it will continue no matter how many laws you pass. About your allegation that Uri is an alien, may I ask which planet you are from? Have you never heard of Honour Killing? The sad fact is that Europe is anti-Semitic but so is most of the world and that my nameless friend is a fact!
5. As a child of one who escaped Nazi Vienna NEVER trust Europe
David Landman ,   Natick, USA   (11.29.05)
Why does Europe never learn from its past? So much good, so much potential, such a waste. Israel should work with Europe, but never trust Western Europe. Work to better Israel and work to better the world as all Jews do. As Jews we should increase our numbers worldwide. Fullfill the mitzvah of having many children. It good for many reasons.
6. In reality, Europe will not be worth dealing with in 50 year
David Landman ,   Natick, USA   (11.29.05)
Israel should focus more on trade with India, China, South America, Egypt, Jordan, and Muslim countries. Europe is shrinking in population and stature. The EU tries to add more countries to stay as a world player. Its a losing proposition. Even Russia is losing population. Japan is losing population. US and Israel are only first world countries with any substantial population growth from immigration and higher births.
7. #3
(11.29.05)
prostitution isn't legal in israel...what?! because you lived there now you are a legal expert. you are just wrong!
8. #3 prostitution isn't legal in Israel
(11.29.05)
though the Police ain't doing enough to stop it.
9. Who wants to control who?
Harry ,   Sydney   (11.29.05)
"Christian Europe" does not admire Israel's achievements in science and hi-tech. Europe is full of envy! Stop adopting the apologetic approach!.
10. While Europe is going down the toilet, the author wants in.
AK   (11.29.05)
The years of the "Mediterranean basin" experiment have created Eurabia, (read Bat Ye’or’s book of the same title,) which is about to destroy the entire culture of Europe, and replace it with the backward and repressive Islamic horror, and the deluded "specialist in European politics” wants Israel to join in this mass suicide? Europe is currently poised between fascism and Islamism. Israel should keep her distance as far as possible. I believe that Dr. Kenneth Levin’s new book, "The Oslo Syndrome, Delusions of a people Under Siege" should be a required reading by ALL Israelis, especially the self-professed experts and definitely the political and chattering classes.
11. to # 1
aa ,   london   (11.29.05)
1st , what israel and the jews are doing now to the world and the palestiniansis a very clear reason to see whyj jews have been persecuted in the world and not only euorope . 2nd are you surprised that 60 % of euorope and iam sure the world, think that israel is the biggest threat to the world peace ? iam sure you are not and neither am i , its pretty clear why .. 3rd when talking about morality , then there is a lot to say about morality which israel and the jews are very very short on , i have seen more whore houses in israel than i have seen anywhere else in the world , have you been to telaviv lately? blames the victim you say ? thats a laugh... palestinians are the victims and israel made is trying there best to make them look like terorests.. 4th iam very much against marying more than one woman and i have been in maany arab countries and i have not yet meet someone that is married to more than one . mabee you will see this in the ruling families that where appointed by the west to rule the arabs but not seldome , and if it is true what you say , so what are you jelouse?? and finaly , europe and israel will never have a normal relationship !!! well my freind israel will never have a normal relationship with any one and i will give you one reason why .. it is because israel and the jews think they can critisise anyone and anytime they want , yet if someone was to critisize israel in anyway whether he is rite or wrong , then he is an antisemit .. this means my freind that we think our shit does not stink .
12. aa from london, Israel is immoral, so Arabs must stay away.
AK   (11.29.05)
israeli "shortness on morality" as you put it, should keep all Arabs very far away, so they don't get soiled by the closeness. I suggest Jordan or Egypt. But Syria and Lebanon are also acceptable. i believe israelis'll could get used to living without arabs.
13. "Anti-Semitic Europe"
Shimon B ,   Kfar Saba   (11.29.05)
Pardo writes that .... "Anti-Semitic Europe" (blood) runs through our (veins).... Lest we forget (or revise), less than three generations ago, in the times of our fathers, grandfathers and great-grandfathers, All conquered European nations, with very few exceptions such as Albania, Bulgaria, Denmark, participated with their Nazi conquerers in the removal and destruction of their Jewish citizens. "Anti-Semitic Europe" - most definitely YES
14. The Euro soil is drenched with Jewish blood
Roger ,   USA   (11.29.05)
In the long run the Jews cannot expect anything good from Europe and neither can America. The DNA of the French political whores, the British colonizers or the German Nazis is well represented in the European anti-Semitic and anti-American culture and mentality.
15. Yo aa from London
Yisraeli   (11.29.05)
As a Jew may I creetisise yoor speelling?
16. FEAR!!!
Ume?   (11.29.05)
This is sad. A man suggests that Israel could get closer to about 500 million people. But no, all this continent is anti-semitic, every single state, every single human being want to destroy Israel, really destroy, not mildly critisice the state for some of its mistaces, now DESTROY. If this is a common thinking of the Israel people, well I petty you all.
17. USA, Israel no better than Europe!
Gabor ,   Budapest, EU   (11.29.05)
I'm sorry for all those generalizing people who live in America and Israel. Don't forget, a loud anti-Semitic minority doesn't represent the whole of the society. The majority of Europeans are NOT anti-Semitic and if many of them have anti-Israel feelings, this is because thery are mainly leftists. European mass media ist mainly pro-Palestinian because Palestinian propaganda succeded better in this part of the world than the Israeli one. Israel should invest more money in convincing Europe and stop looking only at the US! Dear American brothers and sisters! Tell me something: what about Kuklux Klan and anti-immigrant (i.e. anti-Mexican and neo-Nazi) organizations in the US? Is America going to become a Nazi state just because there are such ignorant people within the society??? To Israelis: What about ortodox Jewish sciovinism towards non-Jews wherever thay live? Just think of the reaction of Ortodoxim regarding non-ortodox conversions! A nearly fascist ideology of a "pure nation"! I'm Jewish and I live in the EU but I must say: Americans, especially those who fled from Europe during or after the war are people who I regret because they are psychically hurt! They are angry of their ex-countries and proud of America. OK be proud but don't sh_t on the table where you "have been eating" from since generations. America, don't worry!:-))) Europe is "behind you" (but not for ever!) :-))) The Euroepan Union, if inner problems will be resolved, and common foreign policy will be introduced, is going to become a super power, whether America likes it or not. I think Turkey and finally also Israel will be member states of the united Europe! So... WELCOME ISRAEL in THE EU !!!
18. to aa #11
Emily ,   Sydney, Australia   (11.29.05)
You are a racist. You spew out hate for the Jews. Where is your self respect?
19. talk about racisim
aa   (11.29.05)
i lived in many places in this world and i visited many places also , and i have heard the word racisim all over the world , but i never realy understood the meaning of this word until i came to israel to visit ,and thats where i found out what the true meaning of this word is .....
20. Gabor, Hungary
AK   (11.29.05)
What future do you see for Europe after the entry of Turkey, the country whose secular credentials are solely guaranteed by the army? Turkey, which elected an Islamist president, will become the largest member of the EU. So, welcome to a new Ottoman Empire, Gabor. I hope Israelis politely decline your kind invitation to join in this cultural suicide. Read "Eurabia, The Euro-Arab Axis" by Bat Ye'or, published this year. It will be published in french, shortly. As Europeans, you don’t only have the right but an obligation to know what’s going on now in Europe and how it came about. As to Europe being firmly behind us, we prefer keeping Europe right in front before us, as our deference to out elder brothers … and as a security measure. You may be surprised, but we really do wish you all in Europe the best of luck.
21. aa
AK   (11.29.05)
Sorry, but as used lately, the word "racism" no longer holds the same meaning, as it used to, especially when used by Muslims. In the Stockholm mosque they sell tapes calling on the faithful to commit genocide against Jews. Now, that's real racism.
22. Emily
Jane ,   New York   (11.30.05)
Emily, that's the point. Hate mongers have no self respect. That's why they must hate others to make themselves feel better/superior. And who better to hate than the Jews? How creative and different!!
23. #19
Jane ,   New York   (11.30.05)
You must have gone to a mirror factory in the PA and seen yourself all over. Yup, that's what racism looks like!
24. right to the point
same_here ,   Israeli   (11.30.05)
Thanks EU, we are better with US of America.
25. A reply to Gabor
Kate ,   London   (11.30.05)
Gabor writes: "A nearly fascist ideology of a "pure nation" Gabor, you claim to be a Jew and yet you refer to to Israeli society in the vile terms above. For that reason alone you claim is highly suspicious. You seem to forget that a majority of Hungarians openly collaborated with the Nazis to murder over 600,000 Jewish citizen of Hungary. You forget also that Israel exists largely because the gentiles of Europe cannot be trusted. I can assure you that if Israel ever did take leave of her senses and become part of Europe, it would once again result in a tragedy for a Jewish people. This accursed continent which unfortunately I call home never will change. It is both deeply anti-Semitic and dangerous to the Jewish people - the very reasons in fact why Europe will always be our eternal enemy.
26. aa- you are so right
(11.30.05)
I visited Israel and the soldiers were like- dont talk to that Arab- he is dirty- or dont go to that area- the dirty arabs live there- IT WAS DISGUSTING- and because I am an AMERICAN- they kissed my a$$ because my country welfares them- but I came back to tell the world the Israelis are some of the most racist freaks on the planet-
27. Re: aa- you are so right
Kate ,   London   (11.30.05)
"I am an AMERICAN- they kissed my a$$ because my country welfares them-" Given that Jews create such a huge proportion of America's wealth, in actual fact it's people like you and your fellow travellers who are being "welfared" (sic). By the way, it's obvious you've never ever been to Israel because it's unheard of for Israelis "to kiss anyone's ass". It's part of the great charm of Israelis to treat everyone the same without fear or favour.
28. 59% of Europeans think what???
Graham ,   Germany   (11.30.05)
Bl**dy depressing statistic ! I belong to the remaining 41% For me the current greatest danger to world peace is the ability of terrorists to get their hands on cash & thus weapons. And of course the fact that the more sensible citizens of Arab nations - the women - remain powerless & exploited in their own countries ...... OK that's not directly a threat to world peace in itself, it is just that the less sensible Arab citizens - the ones with testicles - do all the talking... which has definitely threatened world peace over the last 40 years
29. Ti Kate, London
Gabor ,   Budapest, EU   (11.30.05)
I think it's exagerated to say that all Hungarians or all of Europe collaborated with Nazi Germany. Of course, there were people who didn't help the Jews because they had fear... But this is not collaboration (due to my perception). I guess, neither Jews were heros if a kind of holocaust would have happened to gentiles. I had family members who have been killed by Serbians together with other 40.000 Hungarians and tousands of Hungarian Jews (partially deported by Germans and Hungarian nazis). Despite of this I don't hate ALL THE SERBS !!! Unfortunately, under comunist rulership lots of Jews went to work for Hungarian comunist party and secret service in order to take revenge on the gentile society! Many anti-comunist Christians (and not only ex-nazis!) suffered from Jewish hands! I tell you all this because I'm Jewish like you but I'm also human and I think ortodox religious views of a "pure Jewish race" are as dangerous as former Nazi ideology! I love Europe but I know Europeans made many mistakes during history likely to other people (Americans for example). Human race is made of good and bad... We have to try to overcome the BAD, this is the only solution! Greetings from Europe, our common home:-) PS: I have dual identity: Hungarian-European and Jewish-Israeli... Is it so bad?
30. To AK
Gabor ,   Budapest, EU   (11.30.05)
You misunderstood me! I don't think Turkey will ever join the EU, but I think if it does, also Israel may be invited to join. Both countries are in a very difficult, even if different, political situation!
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