Opinion  Others
Responding to Netanya
Alex Fishman
Published: 06.12.05, 12:36
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
28 Talkbacks for this article
1. You are right
From Gaza ,   Gaza   (12.06.05)
I am happy to hear that there are signs of differentiating between the Palestinian population and terrorists. This, I believe, is the crux of the matter. No is Israel is starting to think. The economic situation is part and parcel of the lives of the Palestinian population. Closures will only deteriorate the situation and will throw more Palestinians into the hands of extremists that exploit them for their own agendas. Israel must assist in rebuilding the Palestinian security forces whether directly or indirectly because it destroyed it during this Intifada. Economics and the Rule and Implementation of Law will turn the Palestinian situation upside down. Other formulas have been tried, but continue to fail.
2. All suicidal bombings stigmatise muslims.
(12.06.05)
I, as a palestinian muslim, condemn all suicidal bombing against civilians (non-combatants), were they in Israel, USA, UK, or Jordan. All are unacceptable, and utterly murderous. But as #1 said, bombing non-combatants to punish the extremists does NOT work. On the contrary, it increases their number. Desperation makes it easy to convince people of the suicidal stupidity. What may work is adding more security measures, and helping the normal Palestinians live in peace and lead their normal lives. May god help us all, Jews, Christians, Muslims, and all other humans live in peace.
3. WE ARE STILL HERE MY ENEMIES
DACON9 ,   JEWISH WORLD   (12.06.05)
REMEMBER HITLER REMEMBER THE PIZZA PARLOR REMEMBER THE PESACH HOTEL REMEMBER GUSH KATIF REMEMBER NATANYA J. POLLARD DANNY PERL 1947
4. 1 - what you suggest has been tried and failed
mike ,   usa   (12.06.05)
why don't you and your leadership stop the anti-israel talk and negotiate? which means give and take for both sides. you gota give something more than violence or no violence. till then, be happy with what you have.
5. THE ONLY SOLUTION IS TO EXPEL THE TERRORISTS
(12.06.05)
6. To the Guy from Gaza!
Ramzi Sfeir ,   Bethlehem, Palestine   (12.06.05)
You are Right! The writer is right! Violence against violence NEVER WORKED! And it will never work! IDF go back home, Arm the PA and let them act, and just as they did act before( You just dont want to remember) they will act again, BUT THEY CANT FIGHT WITH THEIR HANDS! They can only fight with ARMS! Give them the arms! Give us the Hope! Dont punish all of us for something we didnt do! Lets fight terrorism Together, you are not fighting terrorism, you are giving it a reason to exist! WAKE UP! the reasons of the Success of Terrorism in the territories are known : Poverty, and more poverty, and dispair ! GIVE US HOPE, Get security! Believe me the day we will see that Fighting terrorism pays and gives us hope, WE WILL FIGHT TERRORISM! Stop collective punishment! You will turn every palestinian into a potential terrorist on the long run ! You know it very well, look at what is happening, Each time there is an attack, more and more extremists are born, on both sides! Each time israel sends its troops somewhere, Hamas and Jihad get more and more popular ! Look at your own polls, i'm not saying this just like that! Make the normal palestinian Live happily, give him hope, a reason to live, give him a Future, he will not turn against you! JUST DONT TREAT US ALL AS YOU TREAT THE VIOLENT MILITANTS! Because , israel, one day, you will loose all the potential negotiators on our side and you will HAVE TO NEGOTIATE WITH HAMAS! and you know it! Now is the time to LEARN how to talk to moderates! Your army failed and is failing every day! your wall failed, your Harsh words and harsh everything FAILED! Use your brain for a second! Alone, you will not be able to fight terrorism, maybe u will be able to stop 60% of the attacks, maybe even 80% ...but its not enough! Only with our help , you will stop 100% of the attacks! And in order to get our help, GIVE US A REASON TO HELP!Convince the normal palestinian(99.99999% of the palestinians) that you deserve our help! till now, you have been doing the contrary! Blocking roads, killing people who most of the time have nothing to do in the story, building walls, building settelments and illegal outposts, harming the normal Palestinian who only wants a decent life! How do you expect us to REACT for god's sake? you want our help : Continue doing this and you will never get it, you will turn 4 Million persons into terrorists! Enough SHARON! ENOUGH Mofaz! WAKE UP! You need to move NOW! peace is a matter of Give and Take.... and peace is a result of Negotiations not wars! ...anyways, i leave you with these words : PEACE , Salam , Shalom ! Together for a better middle east!
7. ramzi - complain to your people; change your people
mike ,   usa   (12.06.05)
stop trying to change others. talk to hamas and jihad, not israel.
8. Mike USA...
Ramzi Sfeir ,   Bethlehem, Palestine   (12.06.05)
I honestly dont feel that i have to do more than you! When you will change your people, i will change my people! You are not less responsible than me in this conflict! YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT THE CHARGES , just as i did! YOU HAVE TO! actually you dont have the choice, dont expect to see me do more than what you are ready to do! I dont owe you anything!
9. Ramzi, if you're the "good guy" then we know
AK   (12.06.05)
that any idea of peace is hopeless. Your understanding of "give and take" is Israelis give and you take. Sorry, but it's not the way compromise works. Your people go into Israeli malls, Israeli busses and markets and murder people -- Israelis DO NOT, repeat DO NOT commit such acts of barbarism. You firebomb and shoot-up school busses, full of children. You have no right to complain about any acts of retaliation from Israeli military, you well earn much harsher measures. Your barbarity is beyond measure -- on the net, there are photos and a video from Gaza of your "freedom fighters" showing off to "Palestinian" children a severed head of a man who they claim to be an Israeli soldier. And those children express happiness at the sight of this horror, shouting “Allahu Ahbar”. How can anybody expect to achieve peace with such depravity?
10. ramzi, it's nice to hear that you want "peace", but...
(12.07.05)
realy, the first step has to be made by the palestinians. listen to AK, he's right.
11. well ramzi, you should be fired
mike ,   usa   (12.07.05)
because you have done absolutely nothing. the palestiians still reject peace, and israel has to unilaterally give land away because you refuse to negotiate. besides, MY people are arabs, not jews. i respect the jews for all they have done toward peace while i am ashamed of the arabs for their love of hatred. peace will only happen when arabs stop their hate!
12. To the arab Ramzi
Yossi ,   Canada   (12.07.05)
If Israel helps, what exactly will you do? Israel has tried repeatedly to talk, cajole, and persuade the arabs in our Holy land. In return we get wars and barbarism. Israel must respond playing by arab rules. Obviously Ramzi you have been unable to connect the dots. It is the arabs who suffer for the actions of the terrorists. The consequences to your actions are well earned. Clean up your own cursed house - then see how a civilized Israel reacts!
13. AK, Mike, you are too superficial for my taste...
Ramzi Sfeir ,   Bethlehem, Palestine   (12.07.05)
Ok, Dear AK, First of all, i never said Israelis give and palestinians Take... dont put words in my mouth and have some honesty and dignity, you are sounding very dumb.... My people never went to malls and buses, those who did htis are not MY PEOPLE! they are Rebels, harming both of our people! Whether you like or not, i dont consider them as my people, besides, I NEVER remember that anyone ; in the last five years, that anyone firebombed and shot at school busses! NEVER ! Proove me wrong...anyways, those who did it are sick if they did it and i have no reason to stop them myself, i can only say they are NOT MY PEOPLE! My people are people of peace....as for Videos on the net, i think that i have reasons to believe that such things are never to be believed for i myself saw videos with translations that had nothing to do with the words said in arabic! NOTHING AT ALL! so this video that i found on a Pro-israel american website shows us that Anything found on the net can be wrong! it takes one thing to make everything else worth nothing, stop being superficial! as for Mike....The Palesitnians never refused to negotiate, it was Bibi who first decided to stop the negotiations, followed by sharon who stopped all kinds of cooperation and contact with palestinians, watch what you saying! Either you are lying or you are an ignorant! There are some realities that you really cant counter! and Dear Mike, being arab or jewish or muslim or whatever means nothing in this conflict, since we are all human beings..! Stop your racism! Who doesnt want to live in peace?I dont hate anyone, i am a palestinian Arab...my religion(that i wont talk about here since its not your business) is a dream and my dream is PEACE!And like me, there are 4 millions that you REFUSE categorically to see and apparently, you message has nothing but HATE! you are the one full of hate...not me! All my messages call for peace, all your messages call for WAR , Killing, Racism ...... just read them out loud; you will see!
14. ramzi - "The Palesitnians never refused to negotiate"?
mike ,   usa   (12.07.05)
then what's this new news: PA 'Peace Team' players to be punished http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3180971,00.html so much for peace. please continue to lecture israel because the palestinains are showing how to do it.
15. Mike...you need to learn how to read...
Ramzi Sfeir ,   Bethlehem,Palestine   (12.07.05)
the football association has nothing to do with negotiations! .... By the way; the article says clearly that the president of the PA blessed the move! You just need to learn how to read, thats the problem! As far as i concerned, its not the Football association that will sign any peace agreement, and its not this association that will negotiate either! Now please grow up, see the LIGHT! it is there! I AM TALKING ABOUT PEACE! i am an example of a normal palestinian! Do i refuse to negotiate ? its you who is putting obstacles...the worse part of the story is that you are not even Israeli! you are from the USA i dont see why you are boring us over here....go look at your own issues!
16. Ramzi
AK   (12.08.05)
No, you didn't say that you want Israelis to give and you to take; I said that this is your understanding of give and take. You little liar, of cause, you talk of wanting peace. It is you interpretation of peace, just like you have your own interpretation who is a terrorist and what constitutes a terrorist act. Believe me, it really doesn't take all that long to figure you out. You claim there were no fire-bombings of school busses? I guess, Israelis put armor on their school busses as a fashion statement then. There are daily terrorist attacks against Israelis. I know it even from thousands of miles away, just by reading articles in this paper, Haaretz and JPost and WND, lgf. Hey, with internet, the world became a much smaller place, which allows me to know what some scumbag imam says in this radio sermon to the Palestinian faithful, exposing your claim of Islamic tolerance as a pure nonsense. As to attacks on school busses, didn't some children end up with amputated limbs, and teachers killed? But then you will probably respond with: "who are you going to believe, my words or your lying eyes." Ramzi, you're a totally shameless liar. And you can call me names, all you want, it is all right, it's becoming a sort of badge of honor to be called a racist or intolerant by people like you. I, like many others , have figured out that it is the Arab/Muslim method of coercion --you simply project your hates, prejudices and violence to the opponent, to shut any opposition up. It may work with air headed Lefties, (not all, just air headed) but I am a level-headed Conservative, so I simply add it all to the list of your other minuses, and the list is continuously growing.
17. 15 ramzi - the problem is i CAN read
mike ,   usa   (12.08.05)
so why then are the players going to be punished? maybe YOU should read! it says "We act in accordance with the attitude of our people who are against normalization (of relations with Israel) before the end of the occupation". in other words, everything has to be fixed according to their liking and THEN things can proceed to "normalization". is that the language of peace? maybe if you twist your brain in a pretzel it makes sense. who cares if i'm not israeli (yet)? you can say i speak for my wife who is israeli, and i am softer than she is about these things. the palestinians are the rejectionists and obstructionists from the FA to the PA and everything in between (like it says above "in accordance with the attitude of our people"). what are YOU doing towards peace in YOUR neighborhood in bethlehem? i suppose not much because the terrorist thugs will come to your house for a visit (and they won't be coming to drink coffee). you can complain about israelis but the real change needs to come from your side of the fence.
18. Responses ...
Ramzi Sfeir ,   Bethlehem, Palestine   (12.08.05)
AK, When i see the way you talk, i can only LAUGH....You are too Religion blinded, too full of hate, too Unhuman, I suggest that you read the Universal declaration of human rights....anyways, who cares about your existence anyways? There are 6,5 Billions on this planet...you are certainly not the ONE that represents the Majority...and thats why i feel VERY SAFE... anyways, just please STOP thinking that you have the ability to know what's going inside my mind, its ridiculous... as For Mike...Dear mike, your language is more of a Dialog than your friend AK, you are a person who can talk, i appriciate this, so let me answer your questions : First of all, its just YESTERDAY that i discovered the existence of the FA, and as far as i am concerned, i never voted for anyone from the FA to represent me anywhere...so i dont care about what they say, just like Hazan in israel who said ARABS ARE LIKE WORMS..does he represent you? and Ovadia Yosef said that Arabs have to get exterminated , DOES HE REPRESENT YOU? When the FA talks about punishment, its an internal thing inside the Association and has nothing to do with the PA...so i just dont care about them! They can say whatever they want, they dont represent anyone! and Mike allow me to say that you really have no idea about who are the Palesitnians! You read the news, ok...But do you think that ITS ENOUGH in order to judge 4 millions ? if you think so then please have a reality check ! I don't complain about israelis , i complain about the way things are done on BOTH SIDES! I complain about the PA as much as a compain about ISRAEL and in this article, the subject was ISRAEL...Look inside other articles, you will see what i'm talking about...Stop seeing the Devil everywhere!
19. ramzi
mike ,   usa   (12.08.05)
i'm not jewish. my wife and family are arabs, a product of the palestinian people. i have close palestinain friends who are the best people, salt of the earth, but they have this deep down hate that has corrupted their soul. and it disgusts me. i have israeli friends, close friends whom i love, and they do not have that hate. that is the change i'm talking about. bad things that happen in our lives are not reasons for, and do not excuse, hate. it may be on both sides but it is a part of the fabric of palestinian society. it is there in israeli society, but it is not what and what they are. i do not defend israelis by any means. they have treated me unfairly more than arabs when i lived there. but there is freedom to hate or not to hate. that is the difference.
20. Mike
AK   (12.08.05)
You refer to your Arab friends as "best people... salt of the earth...." yet at the same time you concede that those wonderful people harbor unreasonable hate towards Jews. Well, there were many intelligent, supposedly decent people, in the West, who considered Germans of the 30s era to be wonderful, civilized people, "salt of the earth," so to speak, with this little quirk of Jew-hatred -- a minor impediment since it did not effect them personally. Of cause we all know how it all ended – WWII. Count the dead, and I don't mean just the Jews. Even so, many of those civilized Nazis were resettled by the Allies in the UK, Canada Australia after the war, some were even brought into the US. Have you ever watched Leni Riefenstad's movies -- speaking of "salt of the earth" -- it makes you want to be a young German in Nazi Germany. See those movies and you'll understand the seductiveness of evil. What is it Mike, that you consider evil? – just the person that blows up the city bus or are those who provide funds and support and the atmosphere of hatred making such acts of violence acceptable just as responsible? I am sure there are plenty KKK folks who are very nice, neighborly, friendly, unless you're Black, of cause, or a Jew. You’re a decent person, Mike, please remain so.
21. Ramzi, you and I do not even speak the same language
AK   (12.08.05)
Your kind is in a way incomprehensible to me, yet I must acknowledge your existence, because on 9-11-2001, people like you have forced me to start paying attention. And then, suddenly, I have noticed that people like you are "invading” my country, bringing with them their incomprehensible, tribal hatreds, their unending demands of accommodation and complete lack of remorse and accountability for the horrific acts of terror committed by their co-religionists. The more you speak, the more I notice the unbreachable divide between us. You represent intolerance, tribal hatred, cruelty and violence and I find you and what you stand for repugnant, simple as that.
22. love and hate
suad ,   bit lahem   (12.08.05)
if you do not love it is not mean that you hate but surly to love is better but we cant seperate the hate from a caose ...but sometimes we love other without a cause but never hate without a cause so i do not hate american unless they support israilian which they ocupy my palastin but i am astonished why american hate me ....yes if they love israilian okey and i do not seek their love but i feel they hate me not just do not love me,,,it is becouse of 11 of september or before ...yes we have different culture but we are not all bin laden and surly we are victim of unfare we do not know only palastine our land and diffecult to have another and islam is our religion imposiple to have another what ever bin ladin or the zarquawi did we believe in kuran god words not any one and believe no one can change god words and god is not the evile only evile is the one and man may be evile if he is moslem or jew or christian
23. ak
mike ,   usa   (12.08.05)
i know plenty of good patriotic liberal americans (some jews) here in the US that hate what israel does yet do not fund or participate in terror. my grandparents did not like blacks and mexicans (and probably jews) but they were good people. i hate the prejudice so do i have to hate my family? i despair that my arab family members despise jews - do i cut them off? i'm "pro-israel" so maybe marrying an arab was a mistake? no, i try to love them and pray they change. i set the example by not doing it and correcting them when they do, at risk of losing their favor and love. hating israel does not always equal supporting hamas, you know. i am hated because i'm an american by arabs (some family) in israel. fine. i don't like it but i always try to have a relationship anyway. doesn't always work but i still try. that doesn't mean i condone hamas or tolerate nazism. anti-semitism is a cancer but it is not always terminal. it can be cured and i have seen it happen personally. sure it's hard and puts relationships at risk, but then again it is easier to stereotype, demonize, and dismiss, isn't it?
24. Good luck, Mike.
AK   (12.09.05)
25. AK...
Ramzi Sfeir ,   Bethlehem,Palestine   (12.09.05)
ok...9/11 is my fault now...wonderful! What else ? I killed Kennedy ? Who knows ? I was responsible for the London bombings ? I am the Mastermind ? all this because i call for PEACE ? The PEACE that you really dont want to hear about because you want israel to Keep everything while IT IS IMPOSSIBLE! I never Defended attacks, on the contrary, i am the First to comdemn, and Proove me wrong ! Now that you mentionned the KKK , read your post ...you are not better than them ! YOU ARE EVEN WORSE! you are using the Nazi ideology! And if you dont see this, its that you are badly contaminated! and i quote" people like you invaded my country" ...Shame on you....I never went to the USA, and i will never go to the USA since its really not my " Dream" destination,its not even a place a feel like seeing,it disgusts me since its leaded by a sick old illuminated "Prophet" and its populated with a lot of people like you! I WILL STAY IN PALESTINE where i belong! now wake up....israel and the USA are not the only two countries in the world...try to look around them a little....you people pretend to live alone on this planet, and i shall remind you that its against all the laws of humanity! YOU ARE OBLIGED by DEMOCRACY to accept different people, and if you don't do it, you are called a RACIST! Not everyone thinks like you,and this doesn't mean that everyone is wrong, it can mean too that you are wrong! Its called Philosophy......maybe you heard about it.....
26. Ramzi, funny you should say it, but ...
AK   (12.10.05)
Kennedy was killed by a Palestinian Arab, Bob Kennedy, and the scum is still in prison; and on 9-11 Palestinians were dancing in the streets, handing out candies, right in front of the cameras and ,of cause, the London terror was perpetrated by the paid up members of your umma. As to Israel wanting it all, isn’t it the Arabs who are calling for the destruction of Israel and expulsion of the Jews? During the recent UN Palestinian day, there on the wall, right behind the UN and Palestinian dignitaries, was a map with a sign on it “Palestine” showing the area from Jordan River to the sea and no Israel. Is that your idea of peace? (You can check the record of the proceedings.) You hurl accusation of racism and Nazism against all who point out that it is the Muslims in general and Arabs in particular who deliberately engage in murder and mutilation of civilians, including little children. I don’t hear you condemning the people and organization that had send them, who murdered that mother and her four little girls, nor any other instances of terrorism against the Israelis. You have no respect for human life, not even for that of your own children whom you condition from the earliest age to hate and kill. Are you going to deny that there are camps teaching terrorism to your children? You may not want to come to the US, but plenty of other Arabs do. And no, we're not obliged to accept anybody who comes in, certainly not the people who despise our culture and wish to destroy it, and who state that their intention is to fly the flag of Islam over our Congress and the White House. We have opened out doors to Muslim immigrants and we have every right to expect that they accept and respect our laws and custom and not try to change it. No, Israel and US are not the only countries in the world, but it seems that you are not that happy with Denmark, Sweden, France, Thailand, Philippines, Spain, Australia, UK and scores of other countries as well. You seem to have an ax to grind over there, as well.
27. Ok AK....Very nice...
Ramzi Sfeir ,   bethlehem,Palestine   (12.10.05)
First of all, you dont know what my religion is, you dont know i belong to who, you dont know what i think and what i believe and you certainly don't know where i am living! not a big deal! All the people who read Ynetnews know very well WHAT I THINK and what i Awlays say! " Never say never" said the wise man , Instead of talking nonsense and loosing both my time and yours, PROOVE ME WRONG! Show me a post where i said that human life is not important!I'd love to see that! You seem to have a problem with islam, this is called racism..But who cares about religion? I am not a believer FOR ONE( u feel dumb now..right?) , secondly my family is christian! FOR TWO! ( you even feel dumber)! I have loads of jewish friends( never killed any of them! I swear!) .... and never held any kind of arms in my hands! .... I just would love everyone to see the kind of accusations you are throwing on me,personally!! Its just RIDICULOUS! do you happen to have dignity ? JUST MAKE A POINT AND PROOVE ME WRONG!stop talking just for talking, its not the Number of words, its the quality you wacko ! I hope you are just 14 years old! If i'm right , then its ok, you are not too dangerous, if I'm wrong then everyone must get REALLLLLY SCARED! By the way, do you happen to know some israelis From Israel ? i don't think so...they just HATE people like you...
28.  Ramzi gives me hope for peace
Yulia ,   tel aviv   (12.17.05)
We jews and israelies, here, on the other side of the bloody wall, are always taught that there is "no one to talk to", there is "no partner". But when I read Ramzis letters I see that all these claims are utterly wrong. We are wrong, out stratgey of 'collective punishments" are wrong. How the hell we expect Palestinians to fight terrorism if we punishing those who against it? Its true that there is a problem of authority in Palestine, loads of fructions, some of them just gungs of terrorists and its hard to "make a deal with goverment which doesnt have an authority over its people. But lets look deeper, WHO undermines PA and Palestinian PM the most? We do, by our brutal policy , which makes other more radical fractions more popular on the Palestinian street. So I suggest to all Israelis and Jews, open their eyes and look at israeli goverment and its policy more closely,more citically, and stop taking for granted anything goverment says! We are not victims here! We killed more then twise palestinians (most of them civilians by the way) during this Intifada then they killed Israelis!
Back to article