Of course, they're not real. They are a useless memorial for people who simply don't care about their country's past atrocities. As someone whose parents have survived the Holocaust, I say enough with these memorials as they only serve as showcases for anti-semites to express their hate. Believe me, survivors do not care at all for these memorials. When they think of their dead families, these monuments painted over with swastikas or yellow starts do not comfort them. Instead of pouring money into these memorials, which benefits no one, we should all donate to Israel.

The stones are NOT gravestones. They do NOT represent graves. They do not have markings or plaques of any kind. They are treated with an anti-graffiti agent, but the architect did not even want that at first. The architect did not want it to be fenced off either, and did not want security around it. He wanted it to be accessible to all people at all times, very much the opposite of fascism. He figured that if anyone messed it up, it could be cleaned up. The stones are made of concrete and it is quite difficult for someone to do real damage to this memorial.

Plus ca change, plus ca la meme chose. I suspect that the only thing the krauts regret about World War II and the Holocaust, is that they lost.

Its good that the Germans remind us that there are plenty among them who would do it all again in a heartbeat. Slight difference this time,...we're armed.

I grew up in Berlin and I'm a content German with all the problematic consequences that brings the history of my nation along. I'm 3rd generation after the Holocaust and I have huge problems with my grand-parents generation. BUT I don't think, Hook you are right. Your pseudo-philosophical quotation doesn't say anything to me... Things did change, and even though we should never stop keeping the memory alive... And not spreading more stupidity...

I PREDICTED WHEN THIS HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL WAS BUILT NEAR THE BRANDENBURG GATE, THAT SOONER OR LATER, IT WOUD BE BLOWN UP BY THE GERMAN NEO NAZIS. WHY WOULD THE GERMANS WANT TO LOOK EVERYDAY AT A MEMORIAL HONORING THE JEWS THEY MURDERED. THEY WOULDN'T. I'M NOT SURPRISED AT ANYTHING THE GERMANS DO TO IT. ANTI-SEMITISM NEVER DIED IN GERMANY--ONLY THE JEWS DID.

They have not changed. Their anti-Semitic virus has mutated but it is very much still there.

Anna Blume writes: "Things did change" According to an opinion poll conducted in Germany just over a year ago, 51% of Germans said that there is little difference between how Israelis are treating Palestinians today and what the Nazis did to the Jews during the Holocaust. The poll also found that 68 percent of Germans believe that Israel is waging a "war of extermination" against the Palestinians. In 1973, a mere 28 years after the "liberation" of Auschwitz, when Israel stood on the brink of destruction, Germany together with the rest of Europe refused to allow American planes rushing aid to Israel the right to fly over its territory. I think you Germans have changed a loss less than you would like to believe. I don't think Germans will ever come to grips with what Germany and her culture did: the great graveyard of tormented Jewish souls that now exists almost right across Europe and beyond, the brilliant and vibrant Jewish society that was extinguished by the preternaturally malign forces of German darkness and evil.

By comparing Israelis to Nazis they are denying what they truly did and trying to absolve themselves of their crimes. I have said it once and I say it again -All yehudim need to leave Europe. Do not ignore the warning signs like in the 1930's. They are clearer and clearer every day.

Don't overstate the case. Europe now isn't Europe of the 1930's. There is anti-semitism in the US too. Should we all move to Israel? I think Aliyah is a great thing but there is no rational "imminent danger" requiring US or European Jews to make Aliyah.

so don't be surprised.

"Europe now isn't Europe of the 1930's." In one sense you are right in that there are now relatively few Jews left in Europe to actually injure. In another sense you are wrong in that the same old anti-Semitism is there and it's just as virulent and just as pervasive. At the moment that anti-Semitism is largely directed towards Israel. In the right circumstances though - a major war or an economic depression - the Europeans will look for a scapegoat, and, as usual, the Jew will fit the bill. By then, as the Polish Jews of the 1930s found to their enormous cost, it will really be too late to do anything. It is not CZ's credibility you should be reflecting on but your own lack of prescience.

Kate, you seem like a very intelligent and passionate person but criticizing Russell for a "lack of prescience" reflects poorly on you and your arguments.

As strange as this might seem to some, I was born in Baghdad and consider myself a cosmopolitan person. I would say that those barbarian tribes are still Anti-Semitic, Xenophobic people, that will soon find themselves marching in the shadow, unless considering a huge change in their society in which I doubt. Of course that does not apply to all people here, as there are many peace-loving, enlightened people as well.

You're certainly right about one thing. I should have qualified my statement in message # 4 with the adjective "many", instead of referring to everyone in Germany. Nonetheless, I think that it's probable that most of those who are still alive, and who were subject to nazi propaganda, even if only at home, harbour the same feelings toward Jews, today. They may not express those feeling in public, but they're there, regardless. I agree with you that Germans who weren't alive prior to 1945, and whose parents weren't antisemites, probably hold attitudes similar to those of citizens of any European nation. Mind you, in my opinion that doesn't really say much, as most Europeans are certainly very hostile toward Israel, if not toward Jews per se.

Germany is a VERY ani-semitic place. Still. How comes, that Jews do not have full and free access to governmental, executive and industrial jobs as you see it in such a natural way in the U.S. Also, most Germans would love to see Israel loosing its fight for survival. Than everyone could go back again to focus eating "peacefully" "Schweinsbraten."

I lived three years in israel, I worked 7 years in Germany and live most of my life in Holland. In all these 7 years in Germany I havent met any antisemitism, I only met shame and sadness.

ANYWAY ANNA, YOU AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT OPPOSE TO RACISM AND SHADES SHOULD BE ENCOURAGED. RUSSEL POINTS OUT THAT IT'S REALLY AN EUROPEAN PROBLEM NOT ONLY A GERMAN ONE.

I think that Germany is different today. Many people, especially the older ones, have a strange opinion about Israel though. They tend to blame Israel for things when they really want to blame "the Jews". But in everydaylife I think that Arabs are the bigger problem. I'm not Jewish but I show my sympathy for Israel, I sometimes wear shirts with an "israel air force"-print on it and I've got the flag of Israel waving in front of my house. I never had problems with Germans because of that, but I came into some alarming situations with Arabs. To me it seems like many of them tend to get VERY! aggressive when it comes to Israel. But I don't want to say that Germans aren't antisemitic, there are many with stupid opinions about Israel (many of them consider themselfs to be leftists and against Nazis, but thats another topic). Sorry for my bad English.

Isac, you are simply wrong. In Germany, there are no obstacles for Jews to get a job in any way, like in every other European country. Although there are, like in every free society, always some idiots who love to abuse their rights, the vast majority of people over here simply doesn't care if somebody is a Jew or not. Anti-Israelism unfortunately is more common, especially at the extreme wings of left and right, like Anti-Americanism as well. However, most Germans indeed feel a lot of sympathy for Israel and the U.S., even if some less informed guys in the U.S. take their prejudices as facts.

soldiers in Israel? they are largely in disrepair, unkempt, filled with the same sort of trash as described above in the article about the holocaust memorial. so before critizing the germans we should have a good look at ourselves. and further we all really need to put this in perspective Yes fine its a holocaust memorial...but you know it is only just a stone structure...its not like its real people or anything like that. i mean really while the holocaust was going and people were getting murdered what was American Jewry doing about it? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! so what is this about protecting stones? delayed responsibility and guilt!

facts: 1. people who leave their dirt in the memorial and/or destroy it or do not behave in this place with respect might be germans - but there is also a good chance, that there were some tourists involved, which are thousands in Berlin around new years eve. I am sure germans could easily do this - but maybe they are not the only ones... 2. Germans today are not as such antisemitic but the majority is definitly against Israel and USA. Not only older people - especially younger generations see in Sharon and Bush the main reason for all problems on this planet. If you listen to german media (especially state-controlled ARD & ZDF television) you hear and see "propaganda" in unbelieveble dimension. islamic terrorists and suicide bombers are mentioned as "freedom Fighters". The last comments of Iranian "president" are "short-notices" or not even mentioned but guantanamo and abu greib are topics.

I have lived in Germany for the past 6 years and what I have observed is that the majority of the people is very anti-Semitic, but they are not aware of it. It is a new kind of left-wing anti-Semitism. They all seem to hate the Nazis, but not because of what they did to the Jews, but rather because they grew up with hating the Nazis. I believe 90% of the Germans sympatise with the Palestinians and I totally agree with #10. They try to ignore the past by finding a new black sheep and Israel seems to be ideal for this. The worst thing is that only about 1% of the people I know agree with my point of view.

and as time goes on so more and more people ...jews ....as well as non jews will realise the stupidity of insisting that these memorials be erected..... they are a shame on the Jewish People

only 90%sympatisewith the Palestinians..hmmmm.... the other 10% need to be educated a little more

remove the Nazis.... Certainly they were not attempting to resist the Nazis.... Hiding seemed to be their way of escape..... Were it not for the Red army Kate and perhaps the Brits and US Kate you would not be here.... Kate did you ever give thanks to those who were brave enough to save you??