Opinion  Ray Hanania
A future without Ariel Sharon
Ray Hanania
Published: 05.01.06, 17:20
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22 Talkbacks for this article
1. yeah, the palestinians hate jews with or without sharon
mike ,   usa   (01.05.06)
peace comes from the heart and the palestinians have a long, long way to go.
2. I have some news for you, Ray
JoshuaPundit ,   USA   (01.05.06)
First of all, the reason Arafat was able to `control Hamas' was because like Hamas, he had no intention of any kind of compromise with Israel. They were on the same side, even if there were occasional turf battles. Second, Abbas, at the core, is no different, and he will be around only as long as he's useful as a front man to bring in money from gullible western governments and doesn't get in the way...not a minute longer. Hey, a year ago, Abbas was at a funeral and al Aksa walked in, shot down two of his bodyguards down in front of him and walked out again. You think Abbas didn't get that message? The key to the position the majority of Palestinians have is not a state living in peace with Israel..it's an Islamic state INSTEAD of Israel. If that wasn't the case, the Pals could have had a state a long time ago. Except for a hatred of Jews and a shared feeling of victimization there is nothing binding the people whom call themselves `Palestinians' and no real basis for a second `Palestinian ' state. what we'll end up with is a terrorist Hamasistan in Gaza and a bunch of clan ruled turf in the Palestinian areas of Judea and Samaria. Even the surrounding Arab nations want nothing to do with the people they have used as shock troops and dupes against Israel for over fifty years..events yesterday in Egypt should prove that to you if nothing else does. The sooner the Israelis realize this and end the farce that has cost so many lives, the better Israel will be. That means Israel marking off it's borders and putting the non-Israeli Arabs on one side and the Jews on the other . As it is, the Arabs who live in Israel live better than the Arabs outside Israel already, and most want tno part of any `Palestinian' state.
3. Figure this out for yourself
Robert Goldman ,   cooper city Florida   (01.05.06)
1 ask the IDF's spokemens office for the current stats on the wall and how many attacks it has helped stop! 2 Ask the PA how many attacks they have stopped or even thought of trying to stop 3 Are you reading the Arab press and your own Y Net? have you seen the threats of explosive attacks in celebration if sharon die? 4 the only Israelis that I know of that danced at arafats death are those wackjob ass clowns who have sainted Dr. Goldstein and have even made a wine in his name. and Anyway Arafat was a terrorist. Sharon was a soldier defending his/my country sharon never hijacked airlines etc. Arafat had his hands in up to his shoulders in the creation of what everyone now calls Terrorism. BIG DIFFERANCE PS Arafat was an Egyptian... and nephew of that lovely fellow and friend of Hitlers the Grand Mufti Still wanna do some beers?
4. This is the first time I disagree with Ray
Dan ,   USA   (01.05.06)
The Oslo "peace process" collapsed because it was all about process and nothing about peace. As Arafat himself said many times, it was all a ruse to obtain what he could by negotiations and the rest by war. So there never was a peace process. Sharon's legacy can be better understood as an Israeli understanding that as long as Palestinians totally reject the concept of a Jewish state, there is no possibility of peace. Given that, a reasonable alternative since permanent occupation is unacceptable is to build a high wall and separate from the Palestinians. This is precisely what Sharon was doing. Unless the Palestinians get serious about compromise and settling differences through negotiation and unless they do it very quickly, the die will be cast. They will have a state or a territory they can call their own but it will be with a neighbor that has resigned itself to more or less a permanent state of hostility. I can't believe this is what Palestinians really want, but right now there just does not seem to be any other acceptable options.
5. Ray I think you misunderstand Sharon
Barak   (01.05.06)
Hes didnt change at all. In fact Id say Bibi and Peretz are more optimistic in this sense: they are waiting for the Palestinians to offer something in return when we offer them something. Sharon, on the other hand, understands that no matter what he offers the Palestinians, its never good enough. Palestinians dont seem to understand that they are NOT going to get EVERYTHING that they want and demand. Likewise, WE are NOT going to get EVERYTHING that we demand. But from what you say in your article, you still want it all - ALL of the westbanl and ALL of east Yerushalayim. Why have you and your people consistently failed to acknowledge that we have a vested interest in these issues too, not only you? You have no idea what give and take means. I think its foreign concept to you completely. You want it all your way or nothing. Sharon understands all this. So this is what he wants to do: unilaterally draw up final borders as closely as possible as what any reasonable person would expect if negotiations had worked. This means you get most of the westbank, but not Ariel and Maaleh Adumim, and not east Yerushalayim. (but once you stop the terror you are free to travel there and visit your holy sites - which we have placed under your jurisdiction, muslim and christian, for many years now) We understand that you want a state of your own. Gazans used to be Egyptians before '67 and Westbankers used to be Jordanians before '67. But we understand that you identify yourselves as a seperate people and have done so for many years now. Theres nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is the way your people have approached this issue since day one: violence. Extremists on your side are much worse than ours - we control ours mostly, you dont. So either you control them or we do it for you. Its a bloody process for you to do this. So what? You think it was going to be easy? Peace and negotiation is a two way street, not one.
6. We have a saying...
Ariel ,   Canberra, Australia   (01.06.06)
I don't know of any Jews who joyously fired guns in the air and handed out sweets when Arafat died. Granted also, there weren't too many who mourned him. That is because we Jews have a saying which comes from the Book of Proverbs: Binpol oyvecha, al tismach (Do not rejoice at the fall of your enemy). That is why Israel has won every war against the Arabs; While the Arabs fight with hatred and other emotions, Israel fights with a cool head and only fights because if it doesn't, it will disappear...
7. False comparison
Sharon ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (01.06.06)
Ray, you expose yourself when you make false comparisons like this one: "Many Palestinians will cheer Sharon’s demise, in much the same way that Israelis rejoiced in Arafat’s death." The difference in scale and scope makes this likeness specious and falacious. Even when Eichman was put to death, no public celebrations were held in Israel or abroad. It just isn't hte Jewish way. Attempts like yours to create parity where no exists continues to poison attempts to work out our differences. Your people can't change what's seriously wrong with them unless and until they can honestly look at themselves and their behavior and realize that it deviates from the accepted norm of modern society.
8. Hanina calling Hanania
Hanina ,   USA   (01.06.06)
Dear Mr. Hanania, You sound like a decent person but you fail to see the evil being portrayed by your people. It's good you got out of the cycle but I know you are too frightened to tell Hamas personally what they should do. Evil cannot be covered up in any shape or form. And if you don't see it, then I think that's very sad.
9. Saw your point picked up by others
(01.06.06)
I saw your point about Sharon's death causing trouble for Abbas. Hamas is growing in strength and we, in Israel, appreciate it. Hamas makes it easier to fight the Palestinians. The problem is, you Palestinians need to fight Hamas, not us. Hamas is your problem. We can take care of ourselves.
10. to Ray
Hilda ,   USA   (01.07.06)
Ray, You call yourself a Christian --You could have fooled me. Considering how the Muslims are treating Christians , I would have guessed that Christian Arabs would have thrown their lot in with the Jews. They would get a better chance at life liberty and happiness than following the hard Islamic line.Isn't being part of Knesset and getting all the rights of equal citizenship enough? You were willing to share with Islam in Lebanon and you saw the results or don;t you remember?
11. Maybe change means better
Allan ,   New York   (01.07.06)
With Sharon out of the way, maybe there will be a better future int he Middle East. Maybe Israel and the Palestinians can return to the negotiating table, again. Maybe they will work out a peace accord together rather than separately. Maybe there will be peace. Not every Jew or Israeli is in love with Sharon. It's a fact. Of course, we all sympathize with anyone who is dying. Still, the future of Israel is bigger than one man's popularity. I didn't see Sharon bring Israel peace at all. In fact, nothing has really changed. I'd like to see someone with a vision of a better future, not the Hamas taking over. Not the settlers getting their way.
12. A future without Sharon
Steve ,   USA   (01.07.06)
The Palestinians or whoever lives in Gaza has shown no peaceful intentions towards Israel. Let them go back to Jordan. Period. This notion of peace with the palestinians will never be because they(the palestinians) don't want peace. They want all of Israel.
13. A future without Ariel Sharon
Emile Tubiana ,   Lehigh Vallee   (01.07.06)
Mr Ray Hanania, A future without Ariel Sharon? You call yourself American like me. Do you know who will be the loser if God forbid Sharon is no longer in control? I can tell you: the Arabs and the Americans. I don't believe for a minute that the Arabs want peace with Israel, they are dreamers and they should continue to dream, but peacefully, and not to rely on terrorists to do their dirty job. The Jewish philosophy and the Jewish democracy are thousands of years old. They may argue strongly among themselves, but they will not kill their opponent. Those who believe in peace with the Arab terrorists are also dreamers. The Palestinians that you mention, are Arabs from the surrounding countries and they could have made peace a long time ago. They may succeed in intimidating the Europeans, but they will never succeed in creating a state like Israel, and do you know why? Because they are full of hatred and hatred can not advance their cause. See for yourself what the Arab countries did with their vast territories, larger than that of the United States! They could have not only lived in peace with Israel but they could have lifted the living standard of their people.
14. TO HILDA
Lois D. ,   Baltimore, Md.   (01.07.06)
I think I once explained this to you before, but for the benefit of the doubt,.try to get this through your head Christians have no hope for life, liberty and happiness in the occupied territories or those citizens who live in Israel because THEY ARE NOT JEWS. and THEY ARE NOT EQUAL CITIZENS. Racist laws and policies apply to all non-Jews who are Arabs, whether Christians or Muslims. "Demographic demons" apply to all Arabs, Muslim or Christian. People who are equal citizens fror sure are not referred to that way. Their only salvation for Muslims and Christians is to convert their religions to Judaism in order to be treated equally and have the same rights as Jews. So please cut the B.S. Sad to think that your rights are based on what your identity is....
15. 14 - you are wrong
mike ,   usa   (01.08.06)
my wife is an israeli arab and she grew up in israel and she said she never exoerienced the so-called discrimination you talk about. she lived among jews and muslims, went to a jewish college in a jewish city and, according to her, felt more comfortable and safe in that environment, as opposed to the muslims around her. i can say the same having lived there, too. arabs may not have the living standard of most jews, but check out the living standard and freedom of other arabs in the region and you'll see that although israel is not perfect and has more to do with arab citizens, they are LIGHT YEARS AHEAD of any muslim society in the middle east, or even in urban european cities. and, by the way, don't believe all the propoganda you read.
16. reply to Lois
Sharon ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (01.08.06)
Lois, have you ever visited an Israeli hospital or university? I have. Plenty of Israeli Arabs study freely at all Israeli universities (in one of my classes, I was the only Jewish woman). Over 1/4 of all patients in Jerusalem hospitals are Arabs, and they are treated by the same doctors and nurses as everyone else (I've seen this with my own eyes). I know several non-Jews who live here perfectly happily. So I don't know where you get your information from, but it's inaccurate.
17. To Mike No. 15
Lois D. ,   Baltimore, Md.   (01.08.06)
We have some things in common Mike because my husband is a Palestinian Arab, and I lived in Israel also even before I met my husband, so please don't tell me about "propaganda" that I'm supposedly reading. Now what I really take offense at is your comment that Arabs may not have the living standard of most Jews, but check out the living standard and freedom of other Arabs in the region, etc., etc., etc. What that amounts to is telling African Americans who lived down south prior to and during the civil rights movement that whatever they had may not have been up to par with White folks, but they sure had it a lot better than those Blacks living in South Africa.
18. 17
mike ,   usa   (01.09.06)
equal rights doesn't happen overnight. how long did it take south africa to get where they are now? how long did it take america? are either of these where they need to be? obviously not. even so, like i said, what other country in the region has the freedom and living standard that arabs enjoy in israel? that counts for something. or maybe it doesn't for you. are you standing up for freedom and rule of law for the palestinians? are you going on talkbacks on arab newssites and speaking against injustice in those countries? do you denounce other arab/mulsim governments for injustice, prejudice, or their apartheid practices? i hope so because they needs your correction WAY more than israel. and anyway, israel has a large portion of its society which speaks out (freely) about the injustices israel commits - something we're all waiting to see in arab areas. give criticism where it is needed the most. if those other mid east countries could get HALF the democracy, freedom, and human rights lowly israel has, the better off the middle east will be. but i guess it's safer to criticise israel, isn't it? how courageous.
19. To Louis D the american
Barak   (01.09.06)
When you have actually lived here then by all means post a comment One thing I find very amusing about americans, and I dont think all americans are this way but most unfortunately are, is that they have this giant self-rightious pole up their asses. They feel they are entitled to an opinion about absolutely everything under the sun because the ''american way'' rules supreme. Well, when the shit hits the fan, some people talk crap and some people put words into action. You, Louis, just talk crap and criticize without offering an alternative solution to problems. We have tried many ways to solve this problem and we have figured out a way to do it without having to accede to every single demand that the Palestinians want from us, without them offering anything to us in return. It makes us more or less happy and them more or less happy. What does all this have to do with you and your Palestinian husband living all the way in america? Nothing really. You just feel the need to blow your own trumpet every once in a while and only criticize. Not even constructive criticism, just BS. BOTH sides have done some bad things. But the way you talk you could swear its all a one sides conspiracy against the poor poor Palestinians. Please stay in america. We dont need you here. And I dont think the Palestinians want you here either. You americans have enough problems of your own. I strongly suggest that you address and fix your own american problems before you start dictating to the rest of the world about what should be and what should not be. Its enough shtuyot from you for one day
20. Back to Mike again
Lois D. ,   Baltimore, Md.   (01.09.06)
The problem with you Mike is that you keep changing the subject and diverting the course from Israel because that seems to be your only defense. I support equality everywhere and detest racism. If I don't support the way the Nazi regime functioned and the use of their laws that stripped Jews of their rights, why would I support Israel who strips the Palestinians of their rights because they're not Jews, or treats its own citizens unequally for that reason also. Come now, I don't know what your background is, but mine is Jewish, and whatever Israel does, it does in my name as a Jew, and on that basis alone, I take exception. Just the way the world expected decent German non-Jews to speak out under a lot more difficult circumstances, there is absolutely no excuse for me.to remain silent. I am not looking for anyone's praises nor do I need anyone's approval. What's really ironic is that I have far more rights than your own wife because she's not Jewish, and you have the audacity to criticize me for only wanting for her what I'm automatically entitled to just because of my identity.
21. Dear Barak.....
Lois D. ,   Baltimore, Md.   (01.09.06)
I know Americans have problems, one of which happens to be Israel. . I have lived in Israel, maybe you didn't read my posts, so don't tell me not to criticize, I have plenty criticisms for my country also, one of them giving billions of dollars per year out, some of which comes out of my pocket to pay for a racist country that Jews would not accept living in anywhere else if they were the underdogs. I will go on criticizing and condemning whether you like it or not. I don't expect you to find what I say constructive just as many Israelis don't find the decent Israeli Jews speaking out as constructive either. Better start telling your country to stop representing itself as a state of the Jews and become a state of all its citizens were everyone is treated as equals. Can't be anything wrong with that.
22. 20
mike ,   usa   (01.09.06)
what you call changing the subject i call being unfair. why do you use a microscope on israel because you're jewish (and not israeli) yet say or do absolutely nothing about palestinian wrongs which are much worse? if the problem is racism in israel, why are you also silent about the bigger problem of racism and extreme jew hate among palestinians? i guess that's ok. morally equating israelis and nazis is incredible. it appears that the palestinains have much more in common with the nazis than israel, if you actually wanted to be fair about the analogy. the problem is that you supposed courageous speaking up against israel is, in truth, the popular thing to do by most in the western world (not to mention the entire muslim world). and from these same people you'll little, if anything, about the much worse racism and atrocities from the palestinains. it seems you want a repeat of the jews under nazi oppression, where israeli jews remain silent while they are blamed for the world's problems. when i lived in israel i was discriminated against in some ways because i am not jewish. when i compare that with the discrimination i felt in muslim areas (and, let's be honest, the fear and oppression when around muslims in palestinain areas as well as neighboring countries) i understood why the conflict rages on. but what i also saw are many israeli jews who want justice for palestinains and were willing to make painful sacrifices for peace. i can't say i saw anything of the like from the other side. go with the crowd and condemn israel for breathing wrong and turn a blind eye to the horrors in the muslim areas. it may make one feel morally superior but it is morally dishonest and unfair.
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