I don't understand - is Rice saying we SHOULD hate the haredim, just because they are haredim?

Approximately 10%, but then who is counting noses? Quite obviously some people are created with an attraction for the same sex, because no one would choose to be gay just so people could tell him/her how evil they were. So far no scientist has found the different gene pattern, the different bit of tissue, the different nerve wiring in the brain that shows difinitive physical differences in the bodies of straight and gay. That may or may not happen some day. Indeed, what would the ultra-religious say if you could do an ultra-sound on the fetus in the womb and certify this person would have no attraction for the opposite sex? Would there be a different position on abortion from ultra-religious parents? Would they terminate a pregnancy and not let a Jew be born? There are sexually wild gays just as there are sexually wild heterosexual swingers who drive to a sex party on Shabbos. I would bet that if someone did an exhausting survey on gay partners, they would find they have the same problems with earning a living, getting to work, getting fat, health problems, jealousy, car problems, etc. as heterosexual people have. Demonizing people who have no attraction for the opposite sex is simply mean spirited and useless no matter what your belief is or how strongly you hold it. I sincerely doubt vicious attacts on homosexual people are approved by their Creator. I have no great wisdom on how to deal with the subject of homosexuality, but I do trust that people who scream the loudest about someone else's behavior most likely have terrible things in their past they want to hide. I would guess that very few of us are totally innocent, otherwise why would we need Yom Kippur?

MK Eli Yishai is 100% correct in his comments. Gays are sick & need help.

Have you read the story of sodom and gomorrah?

there was no sign of any "hatred" in the words of eli yishai, you may argue wether he is right or wrong in his views on homosexuality, but to say that he is "sick" and "homophobic" only because he thinks that gays and lesbians should be treated for what he believes to be a disorder (wether he is right or wrong) doesn't show that you are a very tolerant person, someone may himself be gay/lesbian and still believe that it's a disorder to be so, that doesn't turn him into the category of "racism", rather, I would say that someone like you who shows no tolerance to people who think or believe different than you could be labeld as a racist (according to your own words), by the way, you say "yishai and his friends hate whoever is DIFFERENT from them" how do you know they are "different"? do you think that no one in the hareidi community has homosexual desire? of course there are hareidi men and women who are atracted by same sex, so you can be NOT DIFFERENT and still THINK different, if you dissagree then please go in front of a mirror to see who is exactly the RACIST here.

Sorry, Bunnie, you are wrong. First of all, no one would approve abortions or any such silliness that you put forth. Someone being attracted to the same sex, and not to the opposite sex is not a sin. The sin is acting on those feelings, and having sex in any way that is forbidden by the Torah. These sex acts include sex with animals, sex with one's mother, sister, sex with a married woman, and sex with a person of the same sex. That is the halacha. A person who has homosexual tendencies but does not act on them, has committed no sin. The fact that we have yom kipur is not a condonement of sin, by the way. I am sure you did not mean your last sentence. Lastly, I think the author of this op-ed is a foolish boor. You think Eli Yishai and the millions of Jews who are faithful to the Torah are just like Hamas?

Hamas kills Jews. No truly orthodox Jew, Eli Yishai included, would advocate the killing of Gay people. Rather, we would advocate education and reinforming, until a gay person learns to control his instincts, just as I would expect an orthodox man to control his instincts and refuse to have sex with his sister, no matter how attracted he is.

Proof is in the fact that every year these people make a parade celebrating their sexuality, something most decent people feel should be a private issue.

Rice is, if his writing is any proof, offering Yishai's opinions in reverse. If he could offer a pill to cure people of their religiousness, he'd probably do so. He seems to assume that all homosexuals are sensitive people who, if they hate, have the fine discernment to hate only those who really deserve to be hated, and that is the boorish observant people and their allies, he seems to assume. But Rice hasn't convinced me he's less boorish than Yishai. The Torah sees homosexuality as a sin at least as great as sabbath desecration. That is, both required the death penalty. I do not expect somebody who's insensitive to the importance of shabbat to be sensitive to an observant Jew's discomfort with homosexuality, so I'm not really put out by Rice's comments because it'd be illogical to expect better. But when you get to practical matters, what people DO, what SOCIETY accepts, the context of the disagreement between the two camps is whether a society can legitimately expect individuals to sacrifice for the sake of the whole, in this case, having two dad families vs. maintaining the status quo of "traditional families". Yishai simply firing a volley back at homosexuals and their allies, who are attempting to overturn the values that make it possible for observant Jews to comfortably be a part of this society, so that homosexuals can feel more comfortable. It's a zero sum game. What Rice gains for his side is at the expense of what Yishai gains for his, and vice versa. Let's just keep things the way they are and move on. Don't ask, don't tell. Sorry if that's not enough for you, but I think that individuals should sacrifice for the community and I don't think homosexual marriages are good for the community.

I am certainly a bit plump and if someone were to come up to me and tell me I was a sicko because of my weight, I would certainly think of that as hurtful and unwanted. Lots of us would like to take off weight, none of us would like to be called sicko, none of us would like to be despised because of our weight. I don't know and I doubt that you know any more about how much sexual activity a gay person has than about how much food I eat at lunch. I certainly get the impression that Yishai wants to "cure" all gays when he has no iea if they are celibate or have a one person relationship or go wild with goats. I have better things to do with my time than to do a survey, but I would guess gay people have no more occurances of sexual activity than heterosexual people. I've never seen a survey that says gay people have sex every night or twice a night or any number of times a week. It sounds like you want to judge people without knowing any facts about how they live their lives. I know that in the US many elderly people live together as married people but don't get married because their meger social security checks are barely enough now and marriage would cut that significantly. Maybe they should get married and beg on the street for food money and catch pneumonia and die. Maybe HaShem will judge them more kindly than the people on earth. Have you seen any rabbis going into the old age homes and telling the residents that they are as evil as homosexuals? I've never heard of that. I never once mentioned Rabbi Yishai, so I not sure how anyone could think I was attacking him; I was attacking no one, I asked some questions for thought, and stated that "I have no great wisdom on how to deal with the subject of homosexuality" yet I certainly feel attacked. Ask a question, get accused of being a racist? Such pleasantness from a ??religious?? Jew? From a Jew who keeps Shabbos and kosher and trains to avoid speaking lashon hora? I often have sharp words for people who have harmed other people, but not for people who ask questions. I am also confused about the Yom Kippur comment. If you believe gays are sinning, would you not want them to go to Yom Kippur services. And what if a person stated to others that they were gay, let the others assume what they may, yet led a celibate life? You have no idea if they partake in sexual activity unless they tell you or you peep through their window. When I read articles such as this and responses, I get the impression that people think homosexuals spend half their time having wild sex. If that were true, there would be a a lot of libido driven hetersexual men who would turn gay to spend the day in bed with their eyeballs falling out of their sockets. And to "the duck" could you please use the return key to create paragraphs? It is very, very difficult to read 16 continuous lines and understand what points you are trying to get across. When you break your thoughts down to three or four sentence paragraphs it is much easier for people to understand your thoughts. Please take this as promoting your ability to communicate and not as a criticism, not as a mean spirited comment as that is not what I mean. OK?

Leviticus 20:13.Rest my case

Whether you believe that choice is right or wrong is a personal opinon, but despite much work to the end of "proving" that it is some preordained (either developmentally or genetic) trait has failed.

Eli Yishai and his followers are sick. I wish them a speedy recovery. I also hopes medical science will soon find a cure for their illness.

Eli Yishai is right. Homosexuality is a disease. An infectious one. My friend Bubba and I will visit him tonight and infect him as well...:)

Eli Yishai you are the best !! Homosexuality is a disease and your are the greatest gay supporttes. Like many other diseases, people should be allowed to express their sorrows, support and also happiness by having gay bars, gay parades, gay disco's, gay parties, gay synagos and so on. They should get funded by the Israeli government, like your shas-based institutions, and they should get money from the government if their disease does not allow them to work. Many sick shas supports also get money for nothing!

Oren Rice your writing is viscous, misguided and a deliberate misinterpretation of what Eli Yishai said. What's worse is I expected it of you. Eli Yishai said nothing more then such acts are not permitted by the Torah, and that, like it or not is God's law, not Eli's. Being inclined that way does not make it right. It is not the norm and stop pretending otherwise. Go ask any mother and father if that is what they wish their children to be? Have the honesty to answer that question? Being understanding, tolerant and compassionate is correct but it will never make the act right.

Are you erious?--You are against political leaders who want to stop pornography! I guess your secular upbringing has so alienated you from any connection to your Jewish Heritage that you don't even know what is wrong with what you wrote.

Just remember, Hitler felt the same as you do about Jews, Homsexuals, Gypsies, Slavs and other untermneshen. Perhaps in Netivot you would like to help Gays in the same way as Hitler did? If so, who is sick and needs help? You don't have to like it but Judaism demands of you to be tolerant just as you want others to repect you beliefs. No be a good boy and go an play with your tzitzit and daven and ask the good Lord for forgiveness for the sin of hating you fellow man!

It is great and most of it comes from your country. Personally, I believe that men who wear black clothes all the time are gay.

Why only Leviticus 20 11? If you want to kill every transgressor gainst the Bible, PLEASE start reading from Verse 10 and don't stop until you read all the sex verses that will probably put half of this planet into firey graves! Leave the Gays alone. There are far bigger problems facing us than killing homsexuals, as did Hitler!

Of course Yishai is crazy and Rice is right. After all, Oren is gay and how dare anyone say that it's a problem? Why would anyone want to stop pornography either? If I want to look at it it must be right. Bottom line, gays like me and Oren hate Chareidim because they think that we're sick. We know we're not sick. All we are is miserable human beings who lash out at anyone who thinks that we're sick. another way to phrase this is to just openly state that we hate chareidim but that would make us racists and we can't afford to be called that can we?

His squeals of outrage are those of a 2-year-old having a temper tantrum. Yishai has wished him a refuah shalamah and prays for his recovery. All that Oren does is spew hate and bigotry (even as he complains about being a "victim") against all those who don't applaud his hedonistic lifestyle choice.

is homosexuality normal...no. it is an abnormality that unfortunatly affects certain idividuals.

Who gave you the right to judge who is "normal" and who is not? Maybe George Bush? Maybe the Pope or the Rabbi? Same say that Jews aren't normal. Some say the black people are second or third class people. Some call Indians "coolies". The intelligent person judges his fellow man by his deeds, not by his color, religion or sexual preference. The bigot lynches blacks because of their color, exterminates people becuase of their religion and hates becuase some idiot told him to. Think about it!

The greatest haters and bigots that I see here are the homos shrieking at everyone who doesn't applaud and cheer their "preference." Even if you don't believe there is a G-D, a homosexual "orientation" goes against natural selection. Individual human beings can survive without having any kind of sex at all, but only heterosexuals can guarantee the continuation of the species. It is not "bigoted" or "homophobic" or whatever other screechy insults you want to hurl, it is just pointing out fact and common sense.

Yishai did not say that the gays should be mistreated, abused, discriminated against or not given equal rights. He said that he thinks there is something wrong with them. In his eyes, gays are like people with poor eyesight. Just like the blind aren't legitimate targets, neither, argues Yishai, should gays. I understand Rice's personal sensitivity to the matter at hand but comparing good Jews like Shas to bloody murderers like Hamas is out of line.

so yishai is the same as hitler now right, do you see him planning a final soloution for gays, slightly diferent i would say

comparing him to hamas was wrong but i do see how that can be considered very offensive. i am not against shas by the way...but come on...you have the right to speak freely but people should know when not to open their mouths. all eli yishai did by making those statements was make shas and himself look bad.

I advise all just to read his article the second time. His article has little to do with gays or theyre rights or whatever. But what you can tell from his article is the hate and loathing he has for orthodox Jews. That comes out loud and clear. So if Rice is deemed sick or not with regards to being a homosexual, I can most certainly tell his sickness of blanket loathing of orthodox Jews no matter what. So O Rice yes you are a sicko, the evidence of that are in your own words as expressed in your diatrible.

I am not hurling any insults at anyone. All I am questioning is the right to judge others. I do not see why people, religious and secular, just cannot accept that each individual has the right to choose the way he lives and what religion he wishes to practice. Instead of accusing me of hurling insults, look around and see the hatred that man has for his fellow man. I know that "Gay Parades" do offend some. Not all Gays and Lesbians are drug crazed sex maniacs. However, the "Parades" should be looked at in the same light as other demonstrations which express political, civil and human rights. If the Gay community was accepted and not regarded as a group whose extermination by the Nazis was justified, there would be no need for Gay Parades, Pride Day and all the other trappings. Some people, particularly the religious, cannot accept this and will not allow others to live their lives according to the way of their choice. I do not know to which faith you belong, if any, and that is your own business, but my religion, Judaism preaches tolerance and understanding. A wise and good man once preached the same and of course we all know what happened to Jesus Christ. He died because he believed in some different. Jews were and are still regarded as different and Hitler used this as the excuse for his Final Solution and others use it to exclude us from clubs, institutions and so on. Regarding your comment about God, well, if you believe in him then you must realize that he created "homos" (your word). If you accept the X Chromosome Theory, then why do you condemn? Actually, I think the real homophobes are "closeted Gays" who use their homophobia to prove their heterosexuality. Homosexuality has become a major issue in your country, the UK and some European countries. Let me ask you a question. Don't you think that there are more important issues facing the world than the sexuality of its population? I am sure that if the enormous energy spent on the pros and cons of sexual orientation was spent in helping the people of Darfur, the starving in Africa and the oppressed in other countries, a lot more could be achieved and we could really look in the mirror and say that we did something good My philosophy: Live and let live. Surely love between two people of the same sex is better that hatred against strangers?