Yeah, Mo, we were always in OUR HOLY LAND (yours is in Mecca).

You are a great raconteur I must admit. I was waiting for the part where Little Red Riding Hood came into the picture but.................. You ran out of steam probably. Never mind. You obviously have no desire to get the historical facts right but......... that is your problem. When the UN finally accepted the age old plan for the Jews to have back their land and accepted their independence, they did not knock on somebody's door and forced them to take a tenant, they gave a land that at that time belonged to no one but the British. Part of the Ottoman Empire. The arabs that came to the area were attracted to the flourishing land that Jews, even before Israel's independence, turned from mosquito infested marshes and desert to green pastures and groves. Where did the arabs come from? They came from Egypt, Syria Lebanon and Jordan. And then guess what? They conveniently forgot where their original homes where because they liked what did not belong to them. They were not satisfied to remain in this flourishing land and accept the hospitality offered them. They wanted it all. Even more interesting, the homes from where they came from originally no longer wanted them back. And to round of the story, they became a pain and a heavy burden to the land of Israel. They refused a respectable part of the land offered to them by the new owners because they wanted the lot and allowed themselves to be mentally poisoned by their leaders and used as pawns by the other arab countries occupying 99% of what used to be the Ottoman Empire. Somehow this 1% was a thorn up their backsides. I wonder why? Could it be because it put to shame the other 99%? I hope you are awake, if not, this might just be your problem!

You are both correct. In 1914 Jews numbered about 8% of Palestine (though a bigger percentage of Jersualem). By 1948 that number had grown http://www.israelipalestinianprocon.org/populationpalestine.html

well said and put.IS ANYONE AT KADIMA READING THIS AND ABSORBING THE SOMBER TRUTH? THERE IS NO PEACE WITH THE ARABS ,UNTIL WE SQUASH THEM ONCE AND FOR ALL!

www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/stats/ownership.html , www.passia.org/palestine_facts/MAPS/Distribution_of_population.htm 1947 , thirty years before that is 1917 jewish population was 10%, why compromise now ,after 150 years , you will want to settle with us on this land. percentage can for sure change for good for us inthe coming years.

You need to take another look at what I wrote. You will find that I said on the eve of the 1948 war there were 600,000 Jews and 1,200,000 Arabs in Israel, which is correct. I wasn't talking about the year 1900, and I know that the first Aliyah in 1881 sparked a huge Jewish immigration of Jews to Israel who actually turned the land from a disgusting, neglected, useless swampland into the modern day prosperous society that I live in today. But this was not the first time Jews lived in this country. From the rule of King Solomon to the Babylonian conquest (500 years), this land was the home of the Jewish people, under a Jewish monarchy, speaking the same Hebrew language that is spoken today, 3000 years later! That's why we call it our homeland. The Canaanites of this time have just as much connection to the Arabs as the Jews do, since Canaan was Noah's grandson, the same Noah that the Jews are descendants of. The language of Arabic wasn't even invented then, and the religion of Islam only came 1500 years later. But you're right, in 2000 years many things do happen. The Jews were persecuted and almost finished off, starting from the false accusation of the killing of Jesus, and Islam succeeded in a savage, expansionist campaign to conquer a quarter of the globe. The fact is that even despite the moral right of the Jews to have their homeland that is mentioned hundreds of times in the Torah, but not once in the Koran, they also have a political right according to the UN, and basically the entire world. I hope you read this carefully so you don't misinterpret what I'm saying again.

Listen, are you guys ACTUALLY trying to tell me that the Jews were always there, and never went to Europe, never went to America, and it is the Arabs that came to the land of the Jews and occupy their land????? Wow. The Jews were expelled by the Romans, have you forgotten this? Not the Arabs, the Romans. Have you guys heard of the Holocaust? Yeah, it was the worst crime ever committed by man. And guess what, it happened in Europe. In Poland, In Germany. And guess what else. It happened to the Jews, which means...........wait for it.......... the Jews were in EUROPE! And after that, they immigrated back to what was then known as Palestine. And Ram fron london, you say "When the UN finally accepted the age old plan for the Jews to have back their land" well it was the plan called Balfour Declaration and it wasn't age old, unless you consider 1917 the beginning of time. And you should read that agreement more clearly also, because it states that "nothing should be done to harm the ALREADY EXISTENT NON-JEWISH INHABITANTS of the land" Read it. Now. But guess what, the non-Jewish inhabitants were forcefully removed. About 700,000 of them. And yeah, Mandate Palestine was British, and what did Jews do? They blew up the King David Hotel and killed tens of British. That wasn't terrorism though, that was self-defense, for God's 'chosen people' can never commit terror. So there you go, why was there need for a Balfour declaration if Jews were already in the Holy Land as you claim? And yeah, Ram i'm not awake, i type in my sleep.

Mo, in Jerusalem, for example, in 1900 there was already a majority Jewish population. Between 1931 and 1946 there was a massive Jewish immigration. During those same years there was a 50% increase in the Arab population of Mandatory Palestine. So, 1)Jews were there in 1900; 2)Jews and Arabs both migrated there during the British Mandate.

i admit that we Palestinians have made some terrible mistakes throughout our modern history, but i disagree with the author's perception of the Palestinian intention. I think Israel has to offer hell more for Palestinians since it is an occupation force not a peaceful force that came and screwed the life of ordinary Palestinian citizens mainly 6o years ago.

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story574.html http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story573.html http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story559.html

Dear Mo: If there ever was such a thing as the Palestinian Arab nation then: 1. When was it founded and by whom? 2. Where was its capital? 3. Who was its first king? I look forward to hearing from you. Dudu

Sure the Arabs of Palestine having been getting a raw deal (both from the West & other Arab nations since 1948) but I think that in the middle east as in life elsewhere, there are winners and losers. If, as you say your leaders have in the past made "terrible mistakes", it seems unfair that Israel should be extorted to pay for them. Why not make your leaders accountable for allowing passing the incredibly high bill for failure to its ordiniary citizens? It´s easy to blame Israel for everything - like children often does. Maybe this Hamas ordeal could turn out to be better for you than Arafat & his fatah gangsters. Time will tell. Israel will respond to reason but for this to happen in the post-Arafat age, Palestinians need to grow up and take responsibility for their own frequent screw-ups and get out of their deep denial. At the end of the day, no one will help you out of your misery.

Mo, the Jews were not expelled by the Romans. They actually were treated relatively well by the Romans, and even granted full citizenship like other cultures that the Romans conquered. It was the Arabs, after they conquered the Romans, who expelled the Jews. And just because there were Jews in Europe and America doesn't mean there weren't any in other parts of the world. There were large Jewish populations all over the middle east, including Palestine, in the past 2000 years also. Instead of quickly writing back another weak response, look up this information from reliable sources, then express your opinion.

Yes, Ron, that's why i said Mandate Palestine was 90% Arab and not 100%. Jews were there too, this is a fact. They lived mainly in Jerusalem and in Tel Aviv.

YNet actually published an article by somebody who has a clue.

other than rejecting israel's offferings what have palestinians contributed to peace?? nothing.

There was never a Palestinian Arab nation. So therefore it never had a capital, and never had a king. Mandate Palestine was governed by the British, and early 1900's was comprised of 90% Arabs. But there has never been a state called Palestine, I thought you would've known this.

History doesn't matter right now. We can argue about who the land belongs to unitl the cows come home.The only thing we have to deal with is the present state of affairs. Israel has offered more than can be expected and the Palestinians decline every time. Israel withdraws from territories, Palestinians move closer with Qassams etc...etc...etc. What the Palestinians have to realize, is that with terror and violence, they get NOTHING. Mo and others, you seem smart, so why can't you understand this simple idea??? If your people would just control themselves and get rid of the extreme military fringe, then your people would probably have a state and a better life. Stop hating Israel and start making your side better. Very simple,. but very hard to do b/c there are som many brainwashed Palis who are willing to die for the likes of hamas etc.

Ok Mo... get ready for this... a potentially life altering piece of knowledge... In 1844, the population breakdown of Jerusalem was as follows... Jews - 7,120 Muslims - 5,000 Christians - 3,390 Total - 15,510 In 1876: Jews - 12,000 Muslims - 7,560 Christians - 5,470 Total - 25,030 This figures are from census' conducted by the Ottoman Empire during those years and the figures are available from John Oesterreicher and Anne Sinai, eds., Jerusalem, (NY: John Day, 1974), p. 1; Israel Central Bureau of Statistics; Jerusalem Foundation; Municipality of Jerusalem. Oh, and as for the rest of the malaria ridden, unsettled, uncultivated, barren swamp and desert land... no one was living there and there are several more official reports to prove that including notes from diaries of the likes of Mark Twain... so please stop with the lies.

Compliments on you talent to write while sleeping. Whilst #43 has taken the trouble to clarify some history points, which is not really my forte, thus saving me the trouble, there are elementary facts you seem to overlook in your self spun narration of the Middle East history. Fact: The Jews did not disturb the existing non-Jewish (arab) population. It was the other way round. Nor did they remove any of them. They moved out as advised by the ARAB attackers. They were told to get out of the way while the neighbouring arab countries went in with the intention of exterminating the Jews. They were told they could come back after the "clean up" took place. You know the consequence of this because you appear to be well read but, somehow I feel you conveniently skip a few lines when reading. The fact that Jews blew up the King David is not being denied. The fact that they have reformed is being denied by you. Fact: More than a million Jews were driven out of arab countries since Israel's independence. Many were murdered and others were robbed of everything they owned just for being Jews. Those Jews did nothing to merit the punishment meted. I would accept to call it quits. i.e the 700,000 arabs displaced for the 1 million Jews ......... Stop living in denial. Admit the facts for what they are. The fact that Jews were expelled from their land by arabs is what pushed them to go to Europe. Unless you decide to accept Israel and make your peace with her, which will only benefit you, you will keep on this continued suffering of the misguided Palestinians. Will you ever win this conflict? I will not bet on it! Learn the path of peace. For your people it is a long path. The earlier you start the sooner you will achieve it. Salaam my potential frien.

Israel should pursue Palestinian self-determination -- even impose it on them de facto -- because there is no way Israel can continue to rule on such a large hostile population. Continuation of the current state of affairs with lead to Israel's loss because the Palestinians have nothing left to loose. On the other hand, Israel should be prepared for the worst at all times, including a future war with an independent Palestinian state. As Peres said, Israel should fight terrorist as if there is a war and should pursue peace as if there are no terrorists.

I'm not talking about Jerusalem Jordan, I said in my last talkback that Jews lived in Jerusalem and also Tel Aviv! I'm talking about Mandate Palestine - PRESENT DAY ISRAEL + WEST BANK + GAZA STRIP. I don't deny the fact that Jews were there and I never have, JEWS WERE THERE! They were 10% of Mandate Palestine, and pretty much all of that 10% lived in Jerusalem, and a bit in Tel Aviv! That's why your figures are CORRECT, and so are my statements.

It appears you are the ones who don't know, or want to distort history. Palestine was named by the Romans who kicked the Jews out and tried to erase its connection to the Jews. Just as the Arabs are trying to do now. Most of today's 'Palestinians' are Arabs who came from the surrounding regions when the Jews came back (late 19th early 20th century) and started to resettle and the land. They offered the Arabs jobs. Also, in 1948, many other poor Arabs in the neighbouring countries claimed to be from 'Palestine' when the UN was offering free food and shelter to the 'refugees'. Census taken by the British before 1948, suggest the current number of 'Palesinians' is greatly inflated.

Ram, I don't deny cruelty by Arab countries to the Jews. But I also don't deny cruelty by Jews in Israel to the Arabs of Palestine / Israel / Holy Land / Whatever you want to call it. I am all for a peaceful solution, but I recognize this must come from both sides. I realise it is somewhat pointless to state my views on the creation of Israel because there will be people that doubt facts I present from History books, and I will doubt other people's facts they present from History books, this is a sad fact but it is inevitible. But another fact is that this is all in the past. I don't wish the destruction of Israel, nor do I wish for the destruction of its people. I have many Jewish friends and I cherish those relationships. It's time to move forward, injustice has been done and this is undeniable and unchangeable. So I say let's listen to International Law, which currently sees the West Bank and Gaza Strip as Palestinian territories - fine, I'm ok with that. I believe there must be a full withdrawal from the West Bank including all internationally-illegal settlements and checkpoints. Palestinians need to be in control of Gaza's air space and sea space and border. Same for the West Bank. I don't neglect the suicide bomb factor - this needs to stop, and Israelis need to figure out what's the best way to stop suicide bombs, instead of intentionally or unintentionally giving Palestinians no hope for life. Peace will come, with time, and I believe this is undeniable, the question is, how MUCH time? I think most Israelis also wish for a peaceful solution and also wish for a withdrawal to Internationally-recognized Israel Proper, that's why I never take some Ynet posts to heart - the majority of Israelis disagree with the Janes and Gabrielle Goldwaters of Ynet, and I know this. Shalom Ram, pleasure conversing.

To those Israeli who still believe they live in their land. the difference between Palestinians and Israelis that Palestinians are much more attached to their land than Israelis and that's why they will never accept to live anywhere and they'll keep fighting for their right to return to the land of their ancestors. On the other hand Israelis are not that attached to Palestine because they gave up important areas to their history like Sinai where Prophet Moses spoke to God, what could be more sacred place on earth than the place where the prophet spoke to God. They’ll also give up the West Bank where all the kingdoms of Israel use to be. So what remains? The 48 territories? Where no Jew had ever existed? Look at them when they left Gaza. They said that they would never leave it and they left it very easily. We all know that Jews wanted to escape Europe because of the massacres and persecution they had experienced there. They wanted any place, Uganda, Argentina or may be Palestine. Why don't they find another place than Palestine to hide from the Europeans who still persecute them until now or may be stay with the Palestinian because they won't harm them? The Zionists were able to get a UN resolution to give them any place other than Palestine. It won’t be long till Palestinian return to their homes and the Jews will either live with them or they would find another place may be the USA where they control the politics there.

u r an idiot..

I always am amazed when I see comments like yours. Have you never heard about settlers? And about the annexation-by-creep that has been going on since 1967? I agree with you about history - it all depends on where one starts. But the massive settlement activity happened recently. It cannot be ignored when attempting to condemn the Palestinians for not acting "reasonably".

Dear Josh, ...it's very interesting to read different opinions here....luckily i'm from Europe and unaffected by any kind of religious point of view.......like you seem to me........What bumped into my eyes was the sentence about hebrew........so let me correct: current spoken hebrew is "ivrit".....and it's very very simplified version of real biblical hebrew, which is very difficult to speak even for you...even until now there's no unique grammar for ivrit.......and ivrit was created 100 years ago.......real hebrew was dead language indeed like latine in Europe ! Even Israeli people don't speak correctly with many slang words, which are.....(and here comes surprise) mostly arabic....because arabic and hebrew originate from aramic...don't they? The "real language" of Jews living outside this land was created in Europe years ago....called "Jidish"...and it wasn't hebrew Josh.....but modified version of german language.

Number 28: Tell me where the name Palestine came from!! I know. Do you know?? Go back and read the opening paragraph again. This identity was created in order to use it as a weapon against the Jewish people who have had a presence here for more than 3,000 yrs. Throughout the past 2,000 Jews have returned individually and in groups. In the mid-1800's Jews comprised the majority of Jerusalem which King David had set up as the capital. The Bible is our proof of ownership. Read it. Look in our prayerbooks. Almost every page mentions Jerusalem. In our Grace After Meals it is mentioned numerous times. We pray in the direction of Jerusalem. On Tisha B'Av (the Ninth Day of the Hebrew month of Av) we fast in menory of the destruction of our Holy Temple in Jerusalem. At weddings a glass is broken to remind us of the destruction in the midst of happiness. There is a tradition of leaving a portion of a newly built house unfinished to - again - remind us of the destruction of The Beit HaMikdash (our Holy Temple). In Arab village after Arab village throughout the whole land of Israel there are remnants of synagogues that once existed. You want a state??? Then go to Jordan. That is the other half ot what was called Palestine until the British cut it off and gave it to the Hashemites. So, if a country called "Palestine" is really important for you, go there!!!

I guess Mo at least makes a successful effort to be a reasonable man. I am not so sure about you. You would look at it as a major sacrifice by Israel to have given back Sinai and Gaza, in the pursuit of peace, if you attempted to be rational. So according to you the Jews would have accepted any country as their own. But, yet, they ended up in what you like to call Palestine. I wonder howthat happened? It must have been pure chance, according to you. Follow the example of your compatriot Mo and do a little bit of history reading. You will end up finding out that a Jew, for the past 2000+ years, thinks about Jerusalem and the destroyed temples several times a day. That the life of a Jew has always revolved around the longing of his promised land. Your posting reeks of hate and not reason. You have worked yourself up to a frenzy of what you have allowed yourself to accept from the distorted facts fed to you. Now that you know to what extent the Jews are willing to make sacrifices ask yourself what your people have done to try and attain peace. I know you'd love to have the Jews living under your rule as Dhimmis, downtrodden citizens, as they used to be in many arab countries. This will never happen again. Do you know why? I'll tell you. 1)The love Jews have for the land of Israel is genuine, not a rhetoric like that of yourself and your compatriots. 2) The historical tie is thousands of years old. 3) The knowhow of Jews is far superior to most of the world's other nations, let alone those of the surrounding arabs. This they will use for their protection. 4) Thousands of years of victimization both by the arab nations, the church and Europe, have taught the Jew not to trust them ever again. Jews will never allow themselves to be in that position ever again. Jews, like many other people, will inhabit various countries but will always call Israel their home country. Note, Israel not Palestine. You did not even exist as a Palestinian until you claimed to be so in the 60's. Before that you were an arab. So Mr Yafawi, you too should stop being in denial. Use you logic and perhaps you may be blessed to conclude that the only way forward is to accept facts and extend the hand of peace.