MUST WATCH BY ALL ESPECIALLY ARABS as shown on al jazeera http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null

The visions that Muslims are debating (and murdering each other) are not solely internal visions about womens' rights, etc. They include visions about how to deal with non-Muslims and, in particular, societies with western values. There are Muslims who believe in violent massacre or absorption of that which is not Islamic. Though these same people would often like to do the same thing to other Islamic sects who are "impure" in their eyes, they are much more bent on killing us than they are on killing their fellow Muslims if only because they hope for support from Islamic societies. Many other Muslims simply want to live their lives according to their traditions and don't care what other people do. Some are slowly liberalizing in some areas (I'm thinking of some of the Gulf states). Some are reasonably liberal now (e.g. Bosnia, parts of Muslim society in Turkey, Kurdistan, India, Western countries, etc.) The Reformation is a poor model. It involved a rebellion against a centralized and corrupt Catholic church, causing the splintering of that church into fragments and -- very critically -- reducing its power in large areas of society. In contrast, fundamentalist Islam is now becoming more dominant after a period of relative liberalism (I use the term very, VERY loosely) in which many countries (even Iran) saw gains in women's rights etc. The reason for this is the influence of Saudi/Iranian oil money, which has been spent to aggressively spread radical and anti-Western interpretations of Islam world-wide, taking over more liberal mosques and using them to teach hatred. While most Muslims are NOT at war with the west, make no mistake about this: the ones blowing up WTC, buses, etc., launching Qassams and murdering Americans are.

"Muslims are far more likely to kill other Muslims than they are Westerners " That's only because other Muslims are more easily accessable, and Muslims prefer to be considered 'equal opportunity terrorists'.

If the proponents of Wahabiism win make no mistake they are out to destroy the west. To deny that fact is to deny all the recent horrors perpetuated by their supporters in recent years. Wake up adn smell the [arab] coffee

There are TWO wars. They just choose which one is in the crosshairs when it suits them. But the battle against the west is nonetheless real, even if it is a battle of ideals, of mores, of religious convictions. All the political insights in the world will not help one understand this beast. The only thing that drives them is war. War to bring everyone to their way of thinking. And they even turn on their own. Nasty bunch.

yes, I agree that Shlomo Avineri is wrong, the reason thereto might be wishful thinking...though I am in favour of Muslims exterminating each other...certainly preferable compared to other activities they tend to engage in...

Just read kuran ,that is it Discrimination muslims/non muslims Men/women Masters/slave

The Muslim mother whose kids are blown up unwillingly by Islamist extremists feels the same agony as the rest of us would in her circumstances. The main thing is that there are segments of Muslim society (NOT by ANY means all Muslims) that are engaged in a war against BOTH the West and against Muslims of other sects or beliefs. Their primary war, however, is against the West and everything it stands for (e.g. tolerance and freedom of speech and action). Iran may be struggling to recover leadership of extremist factions from al Qaeda, but its primary war is against us, not against other Muslims. What does all of this tell us? (1) We are indeed at war but not with ALL Muslims (2) There are Muslims who are being victimized by the other side. (3) We need to hold fast to our values and not become like the Islamist extremists. (4) The values on which we founded our countries are attractive to people worldwide, including Muslims. (5) We need to distinguish between real democrats and Islamists who use democracy to advance totalitarian schemes. Bye for now....

It is the goal of Islam to establish the rule of Allah all over the world. Western civilization is an anathema to Islamic values. There are 2.5 billion Muslims in the world and they are on the move. Western Europe is already rapidly becoming Islamised. The author of this article had better thing again.

The proper parallel to current situation in the ME is Germany in the late 1920s and 1930s. Nazis had to fight domestic foes to grab power. But the ultimate goal was far greater than Germany thus the murderous war that followed their success in Germany and Austria. Fortunately WE won, unfortunately many millions had died, who wouldn't if the world had recognized the threat for what it was and destroyed the Nazis in 1933, 34, 35, 35, 36, 37 or 38. The world waited. The political science professor should look around and smell the coffee -- we're already late in the game where Iran is concerned-- we're already past 1938 so to speak and the entire Muslim world is like Austria, just waiting to welcome their great Islamic leader with candies instead of flowers. Yes, the war is against the West, and it is the continuation of the same old war that started with the march out of Arabia 1400 years ago.

You have to re-think the ending of this article!

To be subjective in your proposal, please hint the following items: 1- Gas Chambers & Holocaust were invented by christian civilized europeans. 2- The golden era for Jews in Europe was during the Andalusi Islamic role, then massacres was commited against Muslims & Jews all together. 3- Imperialism is invited by European. 4- Croisade is launched by Christian Europeas. 5- Synagogue demolishing commited by Russians. 6- Zion Sages Protocoles, found by Russians. 7- During Muslims era, Christians as well as Jews were subject to covenants regulate their religious & worship freedom. 8- Us is the nation launched the greates number of wars, military campaigns and military interventions, with the worst history against Red Indians as ell as servitude black history against Africans. 9- Islam abolished servitude, adopted woman rights.

this must be your opinion which you want to belive, its not a realistic analysis..may be you want this but its not shed light on the matter..and your Turkey approach on islamic radicals and their terror attacks..i am living here but didnt heard any of them; especially against the politics of ruling party..

Howard, this is why Shlomo Avineri is a professor and you are not. You said you disagree with him and then you agreed with him. He said exactly what you said, but he is saying that the main problem in Islam, and it's biggest struggle, is internal, not against the west. He didn't say they don't have struggles with the west. He said it is not their biggest struggle. See the difference?

There are 1.3. billion muslims in the world. big difference from 2.5 billion.

I think if everyone wants to know more about the truth, then he should go and read a neutral historical reference, and only then he can decide who are the real RACIST, BLOODY BRAINWASHED naif?

GLOBAL JIHAD DOES NOT HONOR "PEACE" AGREEMENTS We are in the Third World War of Global Jihad. "Peace" Agreements are worthless! "Peace" Agreements are part of Islamic WAR strategy; signed until Islamists become strong enough to wage all-out war against the hated non-Muslim infidels! From: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42603 GLOBAL JIHAD Report: Saudis spread hate through U.S. mosques Propaganda against Jews, Christians 'mainstreamed within our borders' January 29, 2005 The 89-page report by Freedom House's Center for Religious Freedom, "Saudi Publications on Hate Ideology Fill American Mosques," concludes the Saudi government propaganda examined reflects a "totalitarian ideology of hatred that can incite to violence." * Various Saudi government publications gathered for the study, most of which are in Arabic, assert it is a religious obligation for Muslims to hate Christians and Jews... * The documents stress that when Muslims are in the lands of the unbelievers, they must behave as if on a mission behind enemy lines. Either they are there to acquire new knowledge and make money to be later employed in the jihad against the infidels, or they are there to proselytize the infidels until at least some convert to Islam..." U.S. leaders declare Saudi Arabia is America's friend and a key ally in the war on terror. As Saudi Arabia incites to hate and jihad against America's Christians and Jews, the U.S. government defining Saudi Arabia as America's friend, strongly indicates Americans and Israelis have a grim future ahead of them.

Shlomo Avineri is a professor of political science at Hebrew University of Jerusalem The way you speak you are a Jew an enemy of Islam, You talk like an evil westerner you have no knowledgement of anything. Please do not speak of things that you know nothing of and I do not care how many years you have been studying you can keep on studying and by Allah you will never learn anything of Islam you are a not loyal a traitor an enemy. Maybe we Muslims have some things to straighten out among our selves but we have issues that are important but the westerners kill rape their own everyday they are evil and sick no cause no excuse, they live by what you call illusion democracy illusion freedom only by evil with no principals and no values in life they are meaningless Allah has chosen their after and a terrible here when we Muslims do unite the west will be the lossers here and after. This is what you people you loosers do not see and you will never because you are too ignorant this will be Holy War soon,Inshallah by the Grace of Allah all us Muslims will soon call unity and have no sectors among us and no mercy upon any of you evil doers and enemies of Islam. Allah Akbar Allah Akbar Allah Akbar

Dhimmi Victims Gallery BANGLADESH These Bangladeshi women are just some of the countless Hindu rape victims terrorized by Muslim militants in Bangladesh. As members of the Hindu minority community in Bangladesh they are subject to systematic terror, torture, abuse, and violence... SUDAN This young African Sudanese was kidnapped, and enslaved by radical Muslim raiders. Subsequently, his arm was chopped off by his master for the "crime" of losing a goat. To date, the Jihad in Sudan has claimed the lives of two million African Christians and animists. Thousands of other have been enslaved, raped, and maimed... IRAN Mona Mahmudnizhad was one of ten Bahai women executed in June, 1983. Her crime? Teaching her faith to Bahai schoolchildren. She was 17 at the time of her murder... INDONESIA Sutarsi is a Christian... in the Moluccas islands, Indonesia. Her village was attacked by Jihadist militants. In the ensuing battle, Sutarsi was shot in the face by a Muslim militant...They face a systematic campaign of terror, torture, murder, and forced emigration... PAKISTAN Dr. Yusef is a Pakistani Christian being prosecuted under Pakistan’s Blasphemy laws. These blasphemy laws are used by the Pakistani government to intimidate and oppress the Christian minorities of Pakistan. School teachers and adolescent boys are often charged with blasphemy for practicing and teaching their faith... SAUDI ARABIA ...non-Muslims are denied the right to practice their religion, travel freely, and even be buried on Saudi soil. Christians living in Saudi Arabia are subject to violence, intimidation, and imprisonment... EGYPT This young girl was one of 21 Egyptian Coptic Christians murdered during the Al-Kosheh riots in January 2000. The Egyptian police sat and watched as she and her fellow Christian victims were terrorized by an Islamic mob during three days of rioting around the New Year’s celebration. There are an estimated 12 million Coptic Christians in Egypt. They are an ancient community indigenous to Egypt. They lived in Egypt centuries before the Muslims invaded from Arabia...Subject to official and unofficial oppression, they endure sustained discrimination and occasional outbreaks of violence... ISRAEL In Israel over a thousand Jews have been killed by a suicide bombing campaign launched by Muslim radical groups such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Pizzerias have been bombed at midday... JORDAN Siham Qandah, a Jordanian Christian risks losing her children because she is not a Muslim. Jordanian courts have granted custody of the childen to their Muslim uncle... http://www.dhimmi.com/victimsgallery.htm

I feel I must answer your post, thus: 1. Agree. 2. Golden age of Jews under Islam in Andalusia was 9 centuries ago --that’s right, 900 years ago and nothing approaching that time happed to the Jews under Islam since, except a brief time after 1492 when Ottomans needed literate people they could trust and the Jews happened to be convenient and non-threatening. There were quite a few “golden” Jewish ages in Europe with the marvelous achievements in literature, philosophy and knowledge. Also please explain why if Islam treated Jews so well, there were so many Jews living in Europe, their communities growing into millions while under Islam there was no such a growth. There were no Jews moving from European countries to Muslim countries. Jewish communities in Arab countries were far older and better established and so, why didn’t they grow at the same rate as in Europe? 3. Islam has spread through conquest and wars, destroying the indigenous culture wherever it went so Muslims have no right to criticize anybody else. Islam is the most imperialistic of creeds cum political systems – robs people of their language, religion, identity and has constantly been on a war path in all of its 1400 years of existence. 4. Crusades were launched by Europeans, you’re right, but what did the Muslim do in the Holy Land. Looks like two thieves were fighting in the Crusades over the land which they each stole and usurped from the rightful owner – Jews. So, in the Crusades, only the Jews were the good guys. 5. There are many more educated Russian Jews now– artists, writers, scientist, and athletes than were produced in all the Muslim countries in all 1400 years. How do you account for that? 6. True, Russians anti-Semites had produced the Protocols of the Elders of the Zion, but it is the Muslims who are making that forgery into a bestseller today isn’t it so? 7. Same covenants than under Islam were in Europe, as well. Jews had freedom of worship but no equality and a subservient status. Under Islam Jews were dhimmis and so were Christians. In Europe, Jewish population grew into millions producing Nobel price winners, writers, composers but not so under Islam. 8. US fought fewer wars than any other country, certainly fewer than Muslims. Ottomans were constantly attacking Europe until were stopped at the gates of Vienna. They occupied from Andalusia (which they invaded) to Serbia, Bosnia, Greece, and Bulgaria. Heck, Turkey is now an occupied country by invaders Turks who conquered and murdered Byzantines. Slavery exists to this day under Islam, e.g. Sudan. 9. Are you joking? You cannot possibly believe, no matter how brainwashed you are, that women under Islam have rights. What rights? Women in burkhas have rights? No servitude too? Joking again?

from the old science fictions movies. Looks like aliens from outer space (or Middle East) took over your body. Is there anything of Alison Shunstrom left inside you, or are you a lost cause.

In response to the European occupation of Europe by Europeans, is the EU planning to offer Muslims half of Europe? Will the EU, following the Palestinian Authority model; finance, arm and train Muslim terrorist organizations, declaring it is a necessary requirement for the internal security of European Muslim territories? Eurabian Nightmares By Andrew G. Bostom FrontPageMagazine.com | March 13, 2006 While Europe Slept chronicles Bawer’s personal encounter with Europe’s ongoing Islamization since late 1998... France is already 12% Muslim and Switzerland 20%... Already, in most of Western Europe, 16 to 20 percent of children are Muslims…within a couple of generations many [Western European] countries will have Muslim majorities... In France, a public official met with an imam at the edge of Roubaix’s Muslim district out of respect for his declaration of the neighborhood as Islamic territory to which she had no right of access. In Britain, imams have pressed the government to officially designate certain areas of Bradford as being under Muslim, not British, law. In Denmark, Muslim leaders have sought the same kind of control over parts of Copenhagen. And in Belgium, Muslims living in the Brussels neighborhood of Sint-Jans-Molenbeek already view it not as part of Belgium but as an area under Islamic jurisdiction in which Belgians are not welcome. These burgeoning Muslim communities are also consuming disproportionate amounts of state sponsored welfare benefits. For example, Danish Muslims comprise 5% of the population, yet they receive 40% of the governmental outlays... ...the social workers themselves are often tyrannized by their Muslim clients. Bawer describes the chilling situation in Denmark: Some clients lay waste to social security offices and hit social workers... Bawer further documents how Norwegian (Oslo) imams preach brazenly that Muslims should expect such welfare benefits—and feel justified in supplementing them by stealing from stores—as a form of jizya* extracted from their infidel “host” societies—societies that have not yet accepted their requisite subservience to Islamic Law! http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21609

Avineri's analysis of the intra-Islamic conflict is correct as far as it goes, but is neither adequate nor sufficient. Traditionally, Islam demands the submission of the world to God's word according to the teachings of Muhammed. To Islam the world is as much temporal as secular. That is why Islamists today still refer to Spain as al-Andalus and why they regard Israel as a religious affront. Islamic quiescence towards the west is only a phenomenon of the past 200 years resulting from Islamic defeats in the US Tripolitan campaign of 1803, 1816's Battle of Algiers and 1827's Battle of Navarino. Those three major military defeats put Islam's war against the west into hiatus for almost 200 years. It is now resurgent at the same time that Islam is conducting its internal civil war.