They used to be about keeping people from calling for violence but now its extended further to just even being offensive. Being offensive or racist isn't a crime. The real crime is punishing people for their beliefs, however distorted, and then claiming yourself a liberal country. Hate crime laws are mostly due to the extreme left's fanaticism with controlling language. Once you open the door to extend that to a country, then more countries will eventually start to be added to that list.

Racism is in Europe a Hate crime and may be Canada should start to wake up to their hate crimes committed by Islam What a Moron you are

Chris, think about what you've just said ie "The real crime is punishing people for their beliefs". The belief of every follower of mohammed is to find every Jew and kill him (and those of any other belief don't come off much better, we're all apparently infidels). To get to the point of violence it starts off with racism and "just being offensive", the latter hard to define as people 'take offence' at varying levels.

as long as the so called "Free Speech " supports their agenda of hate. If you do not espouse their philosophies then you are an "Enemy of the People" (Wrak Naroda as the Soviets used to say)

and educate yourself about Islamic Hate Words are always followed by actions - the Nazi eara has show same - the holocaust was the results

There is a mistake about the Jean-Christophe Rufin. It was released on october 2004. The new report was delivered on 21th of march 2006 to the french Premier Ministre Dominique de Villepin by La Commission Nationale Consultative des Droits de l’Homme. An analysis of this report can be read (in french) in the website of the CRIF (Board of french jewish institutions). http://www.crif.org/?page=sheader/detail&aid=6649&artyd=10 This new report is already outdated. It does not take account the burst of antisemitic physical violence since the beginning of 2006, including the barbarian murder of Ilan Halimi in february. You can find in the press media and the intellectual circles (including leftist jews) the "pensee unique" mantra according which it is a taboo to mention that the actors of this antisemitic violence are mainly from muslim black and north african origins.

I agree with your take on freedom of speech. In fact I agree with it so much that I'll exercise my unrestrained right of freedom of speech (or at least to the way you define it). So here goes chrisy: Your a lame assed limey descendant whose so dry and boring that whenever you get some action your always arrested for homicide because you kill the woman out of sheer boredome. Your a stupid ugly whinny whose afraid of their own shadow so no wonder you support "freedom" of speech because at least in words you can act tough. On second thought while I enjoy freedom of speech it just allows for plain childishness. May want to rethink you stance Chrisy because you look like an caught with pants down (though your friends in gaza supporting freedom of speech would love that sight)

The Arab overlords will never allow the IslamoFranco regime of Chirac to punish the terrorists that populate Islamic society

Yep, any criticism whatsoever of judaica or israel, for malfeasance ot otherwise is ANTI-SEMITISM. How about "fuck all who think so"!??

There's a talk show, Tout le monde en parle, bringing together politicians, journalists, actors, and other assorted characters and last night a famous actor out of the blue asked why FIFA allows Iran to compete in international matches since they call for Israel's destruction -- especially since FIFA banned Yugoslavia and other countries. He went on to ask what would FIFA do if Iran called for the destruction of France or Italy and said it's not a political question but a moral question. The other guests agreed and he got a huge round of applause from the audience. The tide is turning in France and other European countries with growing Muslim populations as they compare the contributions and behavior of their Jewish citizens with the behavior and contributions of their rapidly growing Muslim population....as well as demonstrating a greater acceptance in Israel's right to defend against terror attacks.

Is it ridiculous to assume that if someone says they want to kill you and that they believe that killing you is the right thing to do they are actually going to do it? If you were standing in front of me and said this to me, I would be worried. Hate crimes start with racism. If you wait and let things develop, people will get hurt. Your attitudes towrds this subject are stupid and it shows you have learned nothing from history or that you are both very anti-semitic.

In France, you can critisize American policy, Canadian policy, and the policy of every other nation on this earth except for Israel?? Nope, no double standard there at all.

Well people, we almost saw Gabrielle actually addressing the issue and not resorting to personal insults!!! With her argument to Chris, Gabrielle starts: "Racism is in Europe a Hate crime and may be Canada should start to wake up to their hate crimes committed by Islam ." WOW, sounds good to me so far, a little Islam-bashing but at least it was somewhat relevant. But oh, no, she had to squeeze in at the very end: "What a Moron you are" Oh well, it was a close one, but then back to Gabrielle at her best - insulting people with personal attacks when they have different views.

We have hate crimes here, some of the strictest in the world, even stupid one's that cover relatively harmless offensive speech. I never said racism was ok, I said it wasn’t inherently illegal. Did you not see "the real crime is punishing people for their beliefs, HOWEVER DISTORTED, and then claiming yourself a liberal country" I bet a bright little pup such as yourself missed that. As far as your articles go, there is a difference between offensive speech and criminal hate speech. A difference in which one actively promotes violence towards a person or a group, which is a crime and rightfully so. But saying that you don't like a particular group or holding racially motivated stereotypes of them is different from saying that they should be killed. If racism is a crime in your country, why haven’t you been arrested for it yet? What are the laws in Israel?…oh, I mean Switzerland (ie Eurabia). #4 kate. Racism is morally wrong but shouldn't be legally, unless it calls for physical harm or is so unreasonably promoted that it would obviously to lead to violence. As you said, that's a hard line to find, extremely subjective. France, lately, is probably going to have to lean closer before that line than past it. But it shouldn’t start pulling the line back. I see what you saying about racism breeding violence, but you can't legislate people's thoughts and hatred, you can prosecute their crimes though. The whole Muslim debacle about the cartoons should have been used to show that in the liberal democracies of the West, you have to have a willingness to be offended or you shouldn’t live there. It may be hurtful but being politically correct shouldn't be a legal standard, unless that crosses over a more obvious line that leads to violence. We missed that opportunity here, only two papers even ran them, and it’s not going to make things any easier for it. But prosecuting people for non-violent hate speech doesn't solve the problem or make it go away; it forces it underground and is harder to stop. Having a society where people freely speak in offensive or racist slants doesn't mean that you have a fully healthy society, but it does show that you have a healthy democracy. That's a large difference between the East and West, for the most part. If not, racism or simply offensive speech ends up going underground but not away, it’s better to have it in the open, so we know where people stand, and protecting their right to be offensive is a collective responsibility, whether we like it or not. #8 Jona, good for you for exhibiting yourself so freely, your character is just shining through! I fully support your right to free speech and not being arrested or fined for being a jerk. Free speech allows for people’s true character to come through. Without inhibitions, if that person is childish and offensive, that’s because that person probably is.

http://www.faithfreedom.org

it is obvious you are poorly informed Hate crimes start with racism......... Islam trying to install their belief into western society - Wake up The Kristallnacht was a result from talk being allowed to carry on - which then did lead to the suffering of the Holocaust - and I know about it my family are holocaust survivors Don't try to tell me what happens The Islamist Challenge to the U.S. Constitution - and it is showing Canadas shortcoming s as well by David Kennedy Houck Middle East Quarterly Spring 2006 http://www.meforum.org/article/920

I've said that hate crimes are direct threats, that analogy is a perfect example of a violent physical threat. But that analogy wouldn’t even have to fall under a hate crime law, it’s a crime to threaten anyone like that. The law though doesn't prosecute people for what they think that they might do; only what they have done or are planning. Being racist or predjudice doesn't mean that you are inherently planning on hurting anyone; it just means that you don't like a group of people for stereotypical reasons. But if we were to start prosecuting people for what we think they might do, many people say that poverty is the cause of criminals. Would you recommend tracking people in low-income housing, since they are statistically the highest percentage of prisoners?

2006-03-22 The Rufin report mystery http://inplainview.monitor.us.tt/comm.ME06.htm

Stop telling everyone that thinks differently than you to wake up, YOU CAN'T TYPE IN YOUR SLEEP. And thanks for the biased website, why dont you look at: www.informationclearinghouse.info We can both trade websites that neither one of us agrees with all day long, it won't change a thing.

No, I haven't suffered Nazi times; I’m under 80. But two of my British/Scottish grandparents were in German concentration camps though. They weren't under the same threat as Jews were but it was a labour camp all the same. I don't deny that hate crimes start with racism; I'm arguing that just being racist alone isn't inherently a crime. I know it's not, on its own, a great principle to stop future crimes in and of itself with but I don't believe in punishing people for offensive beliefs. If it’s promoting violence, then that’s a crime. If it’s purely just racism, then as long as it stays culturally in the minority. If it comes up, there’s plenty of collective support against it, at least in North America. Hopefully ours doesn’t brew over like France, and parts of Europe, but they didn’t integrate their immigrants like North America has. Now they’re paying for that. But as Seth pointed out in #11 though, France is starting to come to terms with it. I know about the Islamic challenges to Canadian law. We've had numerous immigrants from various parts of the world who have tried to change our laws to be more like their old home. Usually through different family law dispute rules though. I wasn’t really surprised that some have tried to use Islamic law in Canada recently to settle disputes, we’ve generally allowed different cultures certain leeway before, our aboriginals often have their own set of laws and courts, this time it went off and was stopped. But I’m not terribly worried, I’m in my mid-20’s and I’ve never met anyone in my age bracket of Muslim decent or otherwise who was interested in following non-Canadian laws, and not any older ones either. I’m not foolish enough to assume that they’re aren’t any, but they haven’t entered much into the mainstream and are generally in the minority. I’m not worried because most people who grow up here want to live under equal democratic laws. People generally come here for a better lifestyle, or because they couldn’t get into the States, but nobody is moving here for the weather.

you fail to find a platform on your Arab websites to allow you free speech but you don't fool anyone here - look who are the only ones agreeing with you Just Arab buddies and those who voted for terroristss Now what does that tell you about your posts ? Not much - you all waste your time in your rant sing song.

Race and hate speech - for Incitement and ACTS of such. Don't play The Poverty Blame Game It means the world in fact deliberately takes away any and all dignity from those poor people, that show World-Wide the integrity to know the difference between right and wrong. Then rich people don't steal nor kill ? ! For example: The core problem of terrorism is entirely an ideology of Islamic Fanaticism. Many people assume that terrorists are poor and desperate, but the real experts argue that terrorism is NOT a reaction to economic hopelessness but is instead a violent expression of political dissent that tends to come from the upper or middle classes. It is nothing BUT an entire lack of ethical and moral standards, a complete breakdown of society, where only Islamic religious fanatical ideologies count. We also see Racism and incitement having the same roots and linings But seemingly no one wants to listen, the face of bin Laden, the terrorism of al-Qaeda, the rubble of the World Trade Center and of the Pentagon ... are just symptoms. The disease is the discontent seething in Islam In the world’s 50 poorest countries there is little or no terrorism. In the Arab countries (such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia, but also in North Africa) - even look at Hamas and the PLO/PA, the terrorists originated not in the poorest and most neglected districts but hailed from places with concentrations of radical preachers. The backwardness, if any, was intellectual and cultural ? not economic and social. Now coming to the Palestinian Terrorism; Again there is no coherent correlation to the so called poverty level, but here again the poor are mislead and used in believing they get a free ticked to paradise and are brainwashed by ideology to serve Allah, promised 72 virgins when they commit murder and mayhem. Just one question reminds unanswered what do they promise the female terrorists, that are proud to blow themselves and others to smithereens ?! They continue to wage war against Israel -- because the problem is not the economy. The problem is their ideology of hatred for Jews and refusal to accept the existence of a Jewish State in their midst. The Islamists' view, which Hamas and all PA factions adheres to, is that a great Muslim State must be established, with Palestine being a part of it. Within this state, Israel has no place ........ And it all starts with Racims and words >>>> leading to acts - since they mean their hatred words Not only in the mIddle east - but world-wide NOT poverty, not wanting a State, they could have had Their State many times over, No it is their WANT ... TO KILL JEWS.. to destroy the State of Israel

the holocaust from losing family

Oh, dear, Juan Cole. And I just had such a good lunch. Well, now I know who YOU are, Henry James.

By the way, Chris, anti-Semitic incidents are up in Canada, according to Haaretz (Israel's left newspaper). Today's paper.

Reports of anti semitism near record high in 2005, says B'Nai Brith Canada Canadian Press Published: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 OTTAWA -- Incidents of anti-semitism were down slightly last year in Canada but given the dramatic increase over the past five years, prejudice against Jews remains a pressing problem, says B'Nai Brith Canada. The Jewish group's annual audit of anti-semitic events logged 829 incidents in 2005 - 3.3 per cent fewer than the year before. Yet 2005 still marks the second highest yearly total since B'Nai Brith began its annual audit 23 years ago. Reported anti-semitic events have tripled in Canada since 2001. Ruth Klein, director of B'Nai Brith's league for human rights, says there's been an ''explosion of hate'' on the internet that offers a cheap, quick way of spreading racism into Canadian households. © Canadian Press 2006 http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=a747adb2-3c4c-4dd8-adad-a2f22b20d91e&k=71319

is not anti-semitism- one is critisizing a countries actions- it just so happens its the jews all living in Israel- BY CHOICE AND LAW OF RETURN_ The STATE of ISRAEL has to be held accountable for its actions-like any country- whoever is in control of it- so if these "hate crimes" laws start to intimdate free speech and thought- THATS the CRIME-like Chris from canda says- IT IS FACISM_

make up laws - esp. in countries where YOU have NOT vote You follow them. But then you wouldn't know what it means to be a civilized citizen who has to live up to laws. By the way this law is the same in most EU countries as well as Switzerland