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France: Anti-Israel acts like anti-Semitism
AFP
Published: 22.03.06, 08:16
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31. The Canadian Dream
Jonathan Levi ,   Jerusalem Israel   (03.23.06)
What I find amusing about Chris is the fact that he comes from Canada. They're horrible to immigrants. I know many immigrants who come to Canada and can't find work. Even if they are trained they still won't get jobs. So while using my right to freedom of speech Chris I'm going to ask you why your discrimanatory government is so bad to foreigners. We could spend all day criticizing each other so if you want to play that game, bunker in for a long one because Canada is certainly no peach regardless of the facade it puts out to the world.
32. #31 Jona
Chris ,   Toronto   (03.23.06)
“We could spend all day criticizing each other so if you want to play that game, bunker in for a long one because Canada is certainly no peach regardless of the facade it puts out to the world.” Funny, I don’t remember even entering into this with you in the first place. My post to you was about freedom of speech. And my post was directed at you, not your country or mine. This is your bait game, not mine. About that “façade” though that we put out to the world. Canada is consistently voted among the top countries to live, for quality of life and human rights records. Can you say the same? And stop calling it your right to free speech. The more accurate term is using your right to be ignorant, racist, and generally just being a prick. I’m not going to enter into any more of your “debate”. You’re simply trying to draw me into following your idiocy and deflecting my criticism to a country instead of to you.
33. Gabrielle and Jane
Chris ,   Toronto   (03.23.06)
#24 “The Poverty blame game” I can only assume that you got that from my post to DR. We were talking about racism and hate crimes. My poverty leads to criminality analogy was directed to his post and not to the Middle East conflict or Palestinians wanting to kill everyone in Israel. #21 Jane, anti-semitism, anti-arab, and anti-americanism have been on the rise here and everywhere else in the world over the last 5 years, since 9/11 and the following wars. I’d say that the latter two have increased much further than anti-semitism though.
34. 32 Chris ,Toronto: wondering in fact why you come to an
Gabrielle Goldwater ,   Geneva Switzerland   (03.23.06)
Israeli Jewish site - to keep ranting about French Laws - that are also EU and Swiss laws on Racism etc... which you don't agree with. simply - since you don't understand - I suggest you take a hike - and stop your tirades Find a Canadian site that adores your rants
35. Chris: you desperately ignore Canadian Racims Facts
Gabrielle Goldwater ,   Geneva Switzerland   (03.23.06)
You are trying to talk yourself desperately out of facts ........ Why is it that you cannot face facts ? Anti-Semitism Near record High in Canda Reports of anti semitism near record high in 2005, says B'Nai Brith Canada Canadian Press Published: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 OTTAWA -- Incidents of anti-semitism were down slightly last year in Canada but given the dramatic increase over the past five years, prejudice against Jews remains a pressing problem, says B'Nai Brith Canada. The Jewish group's annual audit of anti-semitic events logged 829 incidents in 2005 - 3.3 per cent fewer than the year before. Yet 2005 still marks the second highest yearly total since B'Nai Brith began its annual audit 23 years ago. Reported anti-semitic events have tripled in Canada since 2001. Ruth Klein, director of B'Nai Brith's league for human rights, says there's been an ''explosion of hate'' on the internet that offers a cheap, quick way of spreading racism into Canadian households. © Canadian Press 2006 http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=a747adb2-3c4c-4dd8-adad-a2f22b20d91e&k=71319
36. #34 Can you recommend any good Swiss sites?
Chris ,   Toronto   (03.23.06)
As far as my "rants", I'm been pretty damn polite through most of them and returned them in the kind to those who were. I don't think my posts were really any matter to you anyway, you don't listen to anything and only respond to your own prejudice and then post pre-planned essays. I might as well have just posted "Go" for all that it matters to you.
37. Chris , Toronto: we read but we found you have little
Gabrielle Goldwater ,   Geneva Switzerland   (03.24.06)
to say that shows knowledge Now you prove the point - as a Canadian - to now ask for Swiss sites........ that's what one would consider a smart-ass answer the Fact is - what do you keep ranting on for on A Jewish Media Israeli site ?????? You are NOT Jewish so why come here ? If your motive is very questionable and makes no sense Poeple like you we get by masses on radio shows calling in - on conferences - and when exposed - they run off with silly answers or on radio they quickly hang up ... nothing new you are offended by a European Law - but it is NOT for you to be concerned about It is not your country .. It is not your opinion that counts in European Laws It is concerning Jews here and Europe and Israel so what do you really search for You search for controversity and arguments - it is obvious and clear But Canada surely can offer you talk back sites - Christian or other religious site that concern your background Since you onbiously don't find your answers here
38. Chris still ignores Canadian Racism -Why ?
Gabrielle Goldwater ,   Geneva Switzerland   (03.24.06)
39. #37
Chris ,   Toronto   (03.24.06)
Considering that this site is in English, I would say that it is open to anyone. If you are so concerned with creating a "Jewish only" forum, why not switch over to the Hebrew site? If you can speak Hebrew that is. Also, you mentioned that I shouldn't have an opinion on international countries affairs. Yet a quick google of your name has brought up your exchange with the Saudi embassy in the US and another on the BBC, not to mention the various posts on other countries that you’ve made here. Why are you so concerned with the affairs of America and Britain? I don't ignore Canadian racism, but I choose not to feed the fire of a racist who doesn't have the honesty themselves to warrant it.
40. #32 you just slipped..........
Jonathan Levi ,   Jerusalem Israel   (03.24.06)
So when I use freedom of speech it's simple racist ignorant banter........... Now you know very well why unrestrained freedom of speech is troublesome as you yourself have just expressed frusturation against my own brand of freedom of speech. And just like you've expressed quite an amusing amount of disdain against my badgering of yourself and your origins, hopefully you can appreciate my disdain against those who so persistently choose to hate against mine. Not only will you appreciate the fact that freedom of speech in its unrestrained form is dangerous on a good day but you will also appreciate the fact that those who advocate against this law are simply promoting exactly what you've experienced from me. These laws in general are not enacted to restrain people but to prevent an unrestrained abuse of power. Now if my whole long psycological trip was lost upon you then thats a true shame because you have a great chance to learn a very valuable lesson.
41. Chris your inability to rut truly dismays me
Jonathan Levi ,   Jerusalem Israel   (03.24.06)
For starters, your shying away from engaging me in conversation simply proves you lack the ability to deal with all walks of life. Running away and saying "I'm not going to deal with this" is a cop out. But theres little surprise there since I hit you hard with your own countries flaws and when one is forced to see the skeletons they hide one often chooses to run. I think your uncomfortable with answering me because from my first post you assumed I was small minded and incapable of high level conversation (and surprise surprise I just may have made that first post like that on purporse. Though the insults I used still stick) You claim this is an english site. Well your absolutley correct. A politically informative site on Jewish/Israeli issues meant to involve Diaspora (Jews around the world) Jews. Unless your hiding a Jewish relative somewhere that I don't know about I highly doubt you fall into the Israeli or Diaspora class. Now you may whine and hoot how what I've said is racist but you lack much of the historical knowledge or understanding of Jewish issues. If you come here asking questions and wishing to learn thats fine. But don't start picking fights because if you look at it from my point of view this is my "turf" and your the intruder trying to stuff morality and correct conduct down everyones throat. If my "trash" talking bothers you so much then I advise you to grow tougher skin because in the political realm as well as in the real world most of us behave like a pack of wolves. Just sing this mantra Chrissy to make you feel better "Sticks and Stones may break my bones But Jonnies jibes truly hit home."
42. This is really a joke...
Marlene N. ,   New York City   (03.24.06)
It is indeed a farce that France wants to institute laws that would make criticism against Israeli anti-semitic when the worst rampant racism takes place in Israel against its Palestinian Arab citizens.
43. Jonathan
Chris ,   Toronto   (03.24.06)
I’m not restricting freedom of speech, I chose not to get into that debate because it shifted to a, seemingly, off topic and hostile debate. It’s wasn’t a discussion or debate that you were looking for though, it was a fight. You set up a trap that I didn’t want to step into. I don’t think that I “gave up” for not engaging it that. Freedom of speech is letting someone say whatever they want, providing it isn’t violent or obviously promoting violence. It may be offensive and you don’t have to like it or agree with what someone says but you also have the choice to respond to it and also not to. I’ll talk to you about free speech as much as you like but that’s not the debate you were after. You were goating my sense of nationalism into making me attack, to make a point about dangers of free speech. Not engaging someone in dishonest debate isn’t a sign of the failings of freedom of speech. I wouldn’t censure anything you said but that doesn’t mean that I have to engage in it. I haven’t asked for you to be stopped, I simply walked away from where it was going. I’ve gone into that before and it ends up in petty arguments. That’s not a lesson in freedom of speech but one in civility. As you’ve said though, this is an Israeli/Jewish site in English. I think that that’s more assumed than expected though, that everyone here would be of either one. I don’t see anything on this that excludes people who aren’t of Jewish origin. In fact, many American Christians are on this site but their posts pass without much regard. They seem fine to be here, as long as they run on a popular line of thought. I see no reason why this site should be restricted to people only of Jewish heritage, as long as its opinions and not hateful banter. I’m here because I have an interest in world politics, particularly American, British and the Middle East. This is one of the few good sites in English that I’ve seen and read daily. I enjoy the format of the site and the insights into the different perspectives, I don’t think I should have to sit quietly or follow a crowd all of the time though. Having a different opinion isn’t just being disagreeable. I have no strange motives behind being here, just curiosity. I don’t think it’s abnormal to have an interest in learning about the region, we’re exposed to it often through our media, as we are the US and Britain. People should be encouraged to come and learn more, even if it means that we disagree with what they think sometimes. As far as picking fights, my initial post never attacked anyone and wasn’t particularly hostile or offensive, it was an opinion. I’ve never got into an argument with anyone who didn’t respond to my posts in an overly negative and unreasonable way. If someone is going to be rude in their response, they shouldn’t expect any less in return. That’s true in life as anywhere else. Kate and Jane were both polite, so I answered them in kind.
44. Jonathan
Chris ,   Toronto   (03.24.06)
Freedom of speech allows people great liberties but sometimes that means they will choose to use it in its lowest form. That doesn’t mean that I don’t respect that they are free to say it but that doesn’t mean that I won’t respond in kind or simply choose not respond at all. I didn’t stop because I didn’t want to face my countries flaws, I’m well aware of them. What I don’t want to do is to just give someone ammunition who seems openly hostile and is just looking to attack. I have no problems talking about it but I expect that person to be willing to talk about it honestly and not looking to just score some kind of points. I don’t want to go through my country’s problems when I know the other person isn’t being reasonable or willing to do the same and is just out to defame it or me. The racism in Canada post was a framed as a dishonest debate that was just meant to insult. You shouldn’t expect or fault me for not wanting to go along with that. Having said that, I appreciate you explaining the meaning behind your posts and what you were trying to say and show me. But I think you could have made that argument without using that method. It seems more like dumping a kid into the middle of a lake to teach them to swim. And I still don’t think that speech should be limited for that just because it’s sometimes offensive and antagonistic. Also, I wasn’t trying to stuff morality down anyone's throat, this topic wasn’t just about Israel, it’s about laws in Europe and even in my own country. I realize that this is your turf but I don’t think my original post was rude or politically far out there to the subject.
45. 39 Chris , Good you googled me - then you found out
Gabrielle Goldwater ,   Geneva Switzerland   (03.24.06)
that I am an international Foreign Correspondent - on the radio - and in conferences. We also are in Hebrew sites - that you cannot read. Also we get translated into Japanese and are 3 sister sides with a team - again you cannot read Japanese. Now - it is still very odd why you would spew nonsense on a Jewish Israeli Media website We know your kind
46. 39 Chris: this is a site For Jewish Diaspora in English
Gabrielle Goldwater ,   Geneva Switzerland   (03.24.06)
are you part of the Jewish Diaspora ??? I don't think so - have yiu suffered any Racism related to being Jewish or Israeli - I don't think either. Since as we can see you - that Racism against Jews and Israel - is OK - otherwise you wouldn't search out this site - to trash same You come here to TRASH nothing less You prefer to counteract with excuses ... of not to stir fire ... to not address your Canadian Racism - Anti-Semitism - but prefer to trash Racism Legislation in Europe This isn't only France with that Law - it is EU and Switzerland's law. At least be honest in your intentions - You are really in short a canting Hypocrite - it shows in your avoidence of facts
47. Chris the wanna be victim
Jonathan Levi ,   Jeursalem Israel   (03.25.06)
Your failing to see the problem Chris. This law is being proposed because if you haven't followed the issues in France theres been a hell of a lot of dissent up over there. Stemming the flow of anti-Israeli blabber is in fact not crippling democracy but ensuring people who don't have a democratic spirit are not allowed to wing off the democratic system. It's like bringing a dictator into a democracy and then allowing the dictator all the rights you'd give a democratic citizen. But unlike the democratic citizen the dictator will not play by the rules while the whole time your busy catoring to their democratic rights. A large portion of Frances population is muslim. Most come from fanatical countries where democracy is seen as a weakness and to be spit upon. Often their anti-Israeli banter spreads into greater things (like anti-semitism. Though considering your notions largerly pretain to the middle ages I wouldn't be overly surprised if that fact about anti-semitism shocks you) and hey surprise surprise there were riots in France for many many days........ While these riots were not over Jews, tommorow they very possibly could be since the muslim population in France isin't exactly chummy with the Jewish population.
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