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Lieberman: I have international support
Yigal Walt
Published: 23.03.06, 20:57
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31. Lieberman Needed to Rein-in Qadima's 'Israeli Fever'
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (03.24.06)
Qadima derives its support from its simplistic, yet correct, argument that further disengagements are essential due to security and demographics. Qadima's feeble response to Qassam's, on the other hand, betrays its wider confusion and fecklessness. Lieberman's answer, by contrast, is the correct one. Further disengagements of Arab settlements must be VERY limited in number. But Qadima seems worrisomely carried away by Israeli Fever -- the sudden rush that interprets support as an open-ended mandate. Qadima needs to be quickly reined in after trading -- not simply disengaging from -- several large Arab settlements for borders that include strategic Jewish towns in the Shomron and Emeq Yardein while unifying Yerushalayim under Jewish sovereignty. Lieberman and Kissinger see that too, while Olmert would create Jerusalem-al Quds to be reunified someday as the capital of Palistan. The Netzarim Israeli Orthodox Jew www.netzarim.co.il
32. To 19
Shai ,   Israel   (03.24.06)
First, please note that you only _infer_ your position from international law. International law does not explicitly state what you infer, and it can be interpreted differently. Further, international law did not have the weight it has now in 1949 (not 1948) when the armistice lines set the boundaries of Israel as a recognized state, and this conflict began. The conflict is not about "self determination" for the Palestinians. It began to obliterate the renewal of self-determination for the Jewish state after 2000 years of exile. Further, General Assembly resolutions have no legal weight whatsover. Look it up. They are merely advisory, and not enforceable under international law. This isn't to say they don't have some moral weight, because sometimes they do. But I think the application of these laws to this conflict does more to entrench it than resolve it, and the structure of the UN with it's many 3rd world cliques and Muslim nation organizational voting patterns ALWAYS biases GC resolutions against Israel in this conflict. We Israelis have no obligation to give them weight. Second, the evolution of the meaning of "self-determination" is something that occurred many decades after the conflict with the Palestinians began. And, there is a legitimate question of whether the Palestinians are a people separate from Arabs, Jordanians, Egyptians and Syrians generally, and that they've ever been "occupied" in the original (rather than the evolved) definition of the word since they have never had a "Palestinian" government per se, or "Palestinian" institutions per se. While this may be niggling and nitpicking to you, it's not appropriate to ignore it altogether as it forms part of the context of the response Liberman's suggesting. Liberman's position is no less fabricated, and probably less fabricated, than the entire position one can take that there should be a Palestinian state, in my view. Third, no I'm not and Liberman's not making the non-Jewish/Jewish equation you say we are making. As I noted in my post, a large percentage of Israelis will remain non-Jewish even if he gets his way. He's expecting some kind of loyalty oath, which he's not going to get, whether he should or not. There's no point to it, and even many Jews won't commit to it. The point is again whether two disparate national narratives can live together under the same democratic roof, and they can't. The only way to do this is to obliterate the majority narrative so that the minority narrative can survive. This is not something Israel and Jews who live here (with few exceptions) are willing to do, and this is no less a reality than the bureaucratic points you mention and it has to be confronted and dealt with, not simply swept under the carpet with a "Jews will have to compromise on that" attitude. That these people have never had another passport a small concern when weighed against the entire issue and I come to the conclusion that they can do just as well, maybe better with a PA passport. They've lost nothing in that process other than something they don't value anyway, and perhaps hefty social security payments (I really think this is the only reason they want to be citizens). Fourth, what Kissinger did in the settlement with Egypt doesn't discredit every other view he expresses. Even people who make mistakes, such as yourself in my view with what you wrote, can also have views that are correct. My view is that your perspective leads to defeat, no less than Kissingers did in the negotiations with Egypt.
33. To Daniel Australia (18)
Shai ,   Israel   (03.24.06)
Israeli Arabs expressed satisfaction with the results of the PA elections, according to news reports. About 80% were pleased, if I recall the figures properly. They're not going to be moved under Liberman's plan. The statutory boundary of the state would be moved. Think of it as a zoning change. You stay in your house, yet the bundle of rights you have on that piece of real estate have changed in accordance with the new rules. If the Arab Israelis don't like this prospect, the 80% of them who elect the Barakeh's and Tibi's to our Knesset would have elected representatives who weren't against the existence of Israel as a Jewish Democratic state. They leave us with little choice but to conclude that they would rather be governed by others.
34. Umm al- Fahem etc
Abe Rhodes ,   UK   (03.24.06)
Perhaps the people living in Umm al Fahem etc should be asked in a referendum if they wished to stay in Israel or become part of a future Palestinian state. If they chose to stay in Israel (as I'm sure they would) then the expectation should be that they manifestly demonstrate their patriotism for the Israeli state.
35. Be Amazed! Try this experiment
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (03.24.06)
News - reporting the facts - retired with Walter Cronkite. Today, media "news" consists of market-driven political correctness in storytelling. Yet, the opinions of those outside Israel often blatantly rely heavily, if not entirely, on media bias; often limited to their own country's media. Read just the opinions from those living outside of Israel and see how they track with media storytelling. (Even Israeli media has fallen prey to the bias of "occupied territories," "settlements" and the like.) Now read just the opinions of Jews living in Israel and see how many contrast with both media and outside opinions. Barukh ha-Sheim, the outsiders won't be joining me in voting next week. How shall Israel tell the world to back off when we can't even speak up to outside opiners about limitations of the value of their overconfident, too often patronizing, dogmatic opinions? If you don't live here, learn more and opine yes, but circumspectly. The Netzarim Israeli Orthodox Jew www.netzarim.co.il
36. Goy Marcel , Always moaning and whining
Gabrielle Goldwater ,   Geneva Switzerland   (03.24.06)
He hates Israel and it's Government no matter what - he hates his own US - what actually doesn't he hates ? Would be more simple to post
37. 22 dana ,us: well said: Steiner has never a clue
Gabrielle Goldwater ,   Geneva Switzerland   (03.24.06)
38. Who is this girl from geneva who insults verybody?
david ,   T-A   (03.26.06)
Who is this Mrs. Goldwater whose only input is to insult people who disagree with her? I am wondering whether it is a true person and not an antisemitic joke to portray jews as intolerant biggots.
39. have the israeli arabs vote BEFORE giving hamas the land
alex ,   san diego   (03.29.06)
before handing over land to hamas, the israeli arabs in these villiages should take a formal vote on whether to remain part of israel or be moved to hamas. if they choose israel. we should not move them
40. Shai # 33
Paul Frenkel ,   Jerusalem   (03.29.06)
Shai, You get my vote, brother. Lieberman represents a re-assertion of many of the values upon which this country was founded. Immigration, security and settlement, with a pragmatic, nobody's-fool attitude to the arabs. This might just be the beginning of the revival of those values which our fragmented, sectoral, rudderless country needs after 15 years of unreciprocated concessions.
41. Christian Palestinians need Israeli support
George ,   Alabama, USA   (04.03.06)
It is a tragic mistake for Jews to lump the Christian Palestinians in with the Muslims. Christians, both in Israel and in Judea and Samaria should be natural allies of Israel. We hope Israel will annex Bethlehem, Tulkarem, and the historical Christian Arab areas into Israel as a self-governing people like the Samaritans. Never forget that there are three historical peoples in this land not two.
42. Mr Lieberman and friends
ROBERT BUSSER ,   PHILADELPHIA, USA   (01.02.10)
1)The attitude that God gave land to anyone for their exclusive use is certainly mistaken. God gave us the planet to nurture and save forever -- all of us. 2) Israel is called a 'Democracy'. A demosracy is run for the people, by the people. 3) Here in the US we certainly don't have a perfect democracy, BUT we specifically don't exclude any of our citizens because of race, creed, or color. 4) The vast majority of citizens of Israel/Palestine are not militant. 5) A military offensive is not the answer for either side. 6) The time is now to strike up good dialogue between all citizens of the Holy Land. 7) Start with the children, at such places as the Hand-In Hand school in Shakneen.
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