Jewish Scene
Poland seeks Auschwitz name change
Associated Press
Published: 30.03.06, 19:57
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31. STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES !!!!
Rheachel ,   USA   (04.03.06)
I think a look back at Germans adoring old Adolph well who was stupid ?
32. Jewish are anti-Polish
(04.03.06)
definitely not
33. Here are insults again !!!!
Hiram ,   tel aviv   (04.04.06)
Waouuuuuuh! Sensitive subject of course.....but why so much agressivity and insults. Lets look at facts . 1) Auschwitz was originally a coumpound of military barracks used by the preward Polish army. It was selected by the nazi due to the railroad facilities near by and barracks were raised by one floor by slace labour of the camp and then expanded to Birkenau located about 3 kms away from the main camp of Auschwitz ( Oswiecim) 2) We all know that Poland was brutally occupied and run by the nazis under Gauleiter Frank in the times of the General Government. The war crimes in Poland also concerned civil population brutally murdered in 1939 by the Luftwaffe and the constant efforts to eradicate as many poles as possible which Germans considered also as belonging to the Untermenschen type of population. True anough, the non jewish poles surviving in Auschwitz were most of the time petty criminals. 3) There were no more , no less anti semitic Poles than they were anti semitic Russians, Czecks, Hungarians. Remember that anti-semiticism WAS and STILL IS a part of the former Eastern Block. This can be attributed historically to the presence of Orthodox Christianism in some of these areas. Remember that the protocol of the Elders of Zion was NOT a german invention but a Czarist pamphlet ! However, the history of anti semiticsm in Poland is better known than that of anti-semiticism in other countries of the area. Persection of Jews continued after the war, in a different way , under various soviet governments for instance. 4) Resistant Poles have not been helped very much by either the Brits or the Americans, in spite of their " war government" being displaced in England. Nor have they been helped by the various communist organisation operated in Poland under the influence of Socite Union in a very selective fashion when it came to helping Jewish populations. 5) As to changing the name of AUSchwitz, anyone who has studied the shoah knows that Auschwitz-Birkenau is of German translation. Why not simply associate the name Oswiecim ( polish ) to Auschwitz ( German) in a common memory ? Poland has always been caught between its allegiance to Christianism and its huge pre-war Jewish community. There were heroes in Poland as well as crooks, profiteers, and truely enough , anti-semitics people. Same in France under the Vichy Government, same everywhere. Nobody is trying to rewrite history. Memories are unfortunately here to stay. This does not stop me saying that although over 13 people of my own family were picked up in Podgorze and driven to their death the same day, some of my relatives were saved and hidden by Christians in Kracow.
34. Call a Spade a Spade: Auschwitz is Auschwitz
Brana Lobel ,   USA   (04.05.06)
Not surprisingly, Ynet puts Jewish news under "culture" in its directory. Someone let Ynet know that Judaism is a religion and Jews are a nation. There is no question that Poles (in general) were historically hostile to Jews. Example: Chmielniki, pogrom, 17th c. The Jews merited the Torah in part because they did not change their names in Egypt. Tell the truth, Poles. My grandfather came from outside of Radom. His name was Aaron HaKohen Bar Yosef. He providentially had to move to the US. Eighteen of my relatives on his wife's side were killed in Skala Am Bruch in 1942 and 1943. The only positive thing I can see about this was that they did not have to go and be defiled and incinerated in a camp like Auschwitz Auschwitz Auschwitz. To every Pole who helped, a blessing. To the others, may you get what you deserve, and quickly.
35. final solution to this debate
Pellnitz ,   Florida   (04.05.06)
Wow, all this from such a short article! Yes, there were some anti-Semitic Poles, however most were not and Auschwitz was run by Germans. After all, if Poland were entirely anti-Semitic, Germany would not have had to take it by force in '39. UNESCO would not do much by changing the name, it would still be called Auschwitz and will still be called Polish occasionally. Most people to make this mistake, however, realize that it was run by the Nazis and only located in Poland. They would do more good by educating rather than renaming. NO, Jews DO NOT hate Poles...many Jews considered Poland their only home! (this includes one part of my family). Poland was rich in Jewish culture and population, as others said already, so there is no reason at all for hatred of all Poles. Shamir might have a personal account of Poles he encountered, but I've never been to Poland. Just a side note: I do know Polish-American anti-Semites while I have never met one Jew who hates the Poles (save for a couple immature talk-backers).
36. I agree with Shimon from Madrid (#7)
Justine ,   USA   (04.11.06)
Thank you Shimon, I'm greatful to you for your kind words, I'm Polish and often I face anti-Polonizm, here in USA. I wish that all Jewish people were as kind and understanding as Shimon. For those who have doubts about who were the victims, I recommend website of the Holocaust Memorial in Boston, one of only few that actually recognizes 5 million non- Jews (3 million Polish Catholics included) who were murdered in Holocaust. Living in Poland , we never seperated between Jews and Catholics (they were all Poles) it is only here in US that we are separated and called Jews and ..Poles. Lack of knowledge about Poland's history, contributes to this ongoing "conflict." The version promoted by American media has no logic but is accepted by an average person who sees only on black&white.
37. those e-mails by Jewish people...
Justine ,   USA   (04.11.06)
are very hateful, I can not believe that they come from people that are supposed to be wise and gentle. Shame on you, rascist comments belong to fascists not Jews.
38. #18
Przemek ,   Poland   (04.11.06)
Tell me Roger, how repressive was German occupation of Danemark compared to Poland? How many Gestapo was there? Did you know that occupied Poland was the only land where Germans issued and enforced order that for helping Jews, or even giving a loaf of bread meant automatic death penatly! No courts, you're just shot on the spot!! Yet many people helped. I wish more had the courage. Don't compare apples to organges. And tell me, why did so many Jews settled in Poland in the Midde Ages while they were persecuted elsewhere? There were invited by the Polish king. I am not denying that anti-semitism exists and that I am not proud of those Pole who were/are anti-Jewish, but learn a little about joint Polish-Jewish history before throwing such wisdom upon us. Learn a litte. I recommend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland
39. #18.
adam ,   toronto canada   (04.16.06)
It hurts to see so much ignorance and venomous hatred directed at my nation mainly from the jews of america. Growing up in Poland of the 70's and 80's I never heard or seen any hatred or anything other than sympathy toward the Jews. That's not to say that there wasn't any, but I being a roman catholic Pole, was taught by my parents, grandparents and my school to feel only sorrow for the Jews who died during that horrible time in history. After all they were Polish Jews, our fellow citizens. It hurts to hear that somehow I and my parents, my brother and my wife and son, somehow have this so called Jew hating DNA running in our blood. I think here in Canada this would be considered hate speach propaganda, but I may be wrong. I only wish that those who are so carefree at directing such excrement at my nation, would perhaps slow down, pick up a book or two, and think things throughly before condemning a whole race of people. After all it is precisely this kind of behaviour, that kind of started things in Germany of the 1930's isn't it? I always held the Jewish intellect in high esteem, and I still do. Only now I know, that not all Jews are smart. Maybe it's the American education that's responsible.....? To answer #18. The reason Germans used Poland as the main killing ground of Jews was strictly logistical. Pre 1939 Poland had a Jewish population of well over 3 million, which at the time was more than half of all European Jewry. Do you think it would be easier to ship all of them to Denmark? Another point you all should perhaps do a little research on, is if it was so terrible for Jews to live in Poland than why did the Jews made it their home for nearly 7 centuries before 1939? And why Poland had the most Jews of all of Europe? Did you know that Jews were allowed to have more autonomy in Poland than all the other minorities combined? Please check it. I can go on. You who are so eager to spew hatred at us, where did you learn history? Watching "Schindler's List", or reading "Mila 18" does not a history lesson make. I don't deny for a second that some Poles did bad things. But it was the Polish resistance policy to execute such vermin. War is a terrible thing. In war some are heroes, some are vermin, but majority just wants to survive...Its human that you first want to save your family. In German occupied Poland, unlike in Holland or France, any Pole caught even extending a helping hand to a Jew, was immediately put to death. And so was his family, his block or village. Majority of Poles who didn't help were only trying to survive. It is easy to judge from a great distance of time and space. From comfortable and relatively easy existance in America. But ask yourselves what you would have done, how you would have behaved? In circumstances such as they were, still a great number of Poles found it within themselves to save their Jewish compatriots. Check with Yad Vashem how many trees they planted in honour of Poles who saved Jews. You will find that no other nation has that many. Why doesnt France have more? Or Denmark? Or Sweden? Or the United States? Does USA have any? Those that could help the most didnt. Where was USA, Canada? Where was American Jewry, so rich and powerful. Poland doesn't want to change the name of Auschwitz. It just wants to add to it the name of its rightful owners. Because even in Germany's main newspapers one can find the term, so prevalent in other western countries " Polish Concentration Camps" and "Polish Death Camps". We have run a full circle now. The victim has become the bandit.
40. To Adam and other Poles
Martin ,   Washington   (04.19.06)
As the son of Polish Jews with family still in Poland, I agree that there's too much broadbush blasting of Poles for anti-Semitism. And there were plenty of other groups during the war who persecuted Jews and were worse than the Poles -- Ukrainians and Lithuanians, for example. You are also correct that many Poles have been honored as righteous by Yad Vashem. Simply put, not all Poles are anti-Semites, and my fellow Jews shouldn't say they are. That said, there is a long history of Polish anti-Semitism, which should be acknowledged. Much of it stems from the Catholic Church's now-renounced teachings that the Jews killed Christ. Jews were discriminated against before WWII. Have you heard the once-popular expression, Polska bez Zydow (Poland without Jews)? Poles massacred Jews in Jedwabne and Radzislaw (if I remember the name correctly) during the war. (By the way, the Home Army (AK) was not always kind to Jews. ) And after the war, there was the pogrom in Kielce and the official anti-Semitic campaign in 1968.
41. What is going on really?
Marek ,   Krakow   (04.23.06)
While observing many Polish-Jewish discussions in massmedia, I got one conclusion. The hatered between two groups of people is proppeled by some minor (if not saying marginal) groups of people from both sides. #1 Some radical Jewish say what you could have seen partially on this forum, absolutely crappy things about Polish being responsible for the Shoah from the beginning till the end etc. #2 On the other hand Polish ultracatolic (also quite few in Poland, unfortunately quite conserved in USA) people see everywhere some kind of Jewish actions to make Poland humiliated etc. What makes these two groups identical?? They are simply led by emotions which are screening them rational thinkig and willness of taking simple glance in a serious history book. Of course it is easy to listen some empty phrases and then repeat them stupidly increasing bad relations between nations (not only Polish-Jewish, it could be used in general). But isn't it better to make some effort and study this topic??? Then it comes to situation, when someone, for example in Poland, says that Jewish are [...] and the opposite side of course takes it as the common opinion about Jews in Poland. On the other hand some Jewish guy can say that all Polish have anti-semitism in DNA, and... the same situation happens but the opposite side. And TV, newspapers and others will always show the incidents of the most radical attitudes from both sides, making it possible to create a bad image of the nations. Isn't it stupid, that people do not take care of facts, but base their knowledge on legends and words told by single, not always appropriate people? They do it instead of reading some books or browsing the internet. I dedicate this post to all so-called "stiupid Americans" I do strongly believe that you are not stupid, but simply you are putting some kind of emotional attitude and weak knowledge of Europe's history towards facts. My dear so-called "stupid Americans", no more "My home is my Castle" when talking about history of Europe, it is high time to get out of it and be opened for knowledge! Greetings to all Jewish and non-Jewish people which posted rational and wise comments I have read above.
42. Poland the least Antisemitic in Europe
Chris Polak ,   Stockholm Sweden   (04.28.06)
U stupid ahistorical American. Besides making porn, war and hamburgers U know XXXX! Read some books for God's sake! Regards Chris Polak
43. Auschwitz
yanina ,   Tel-Aviv   (05.28.06)
This time the Poles are right, it was german and Poles were send there too.
44. to Jewish anti-polish racists...
jackaL ,   Poland   (05.28.06)
Check Yad Vashem and read some books you ignorants.
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