Opinion  Others
Poland must deal with its past
Daniel Schatz
Published: 02.04.06, 09:57
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1. yes...Stolen PROPERTY must always return to its real owners!
Ramzi Sfeir ,   Bethlehem, Palestine   (04.02.06)
and thats why we claim our rights , israel is built on stolen property! I want my grandfather's house in Mamila jerusalem!
2. Heheee....
Palestinian   (04.02.06)
Why do Jews want this Property? I thought that their only Land is the Holy Land...!!! Well, we Palestinians have also stolen property. It is Palestine. We will never rest until we claim it all. From the river to the Sea. Whatever it takes, we will continue towards this objectve, and no Jewish power can stop us...
3. life a la cart
(04.02.06)
and what about the Palistinian lands ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? , you are realy a trouble makers people , you can not live in peace ... you nevr had and you will never have peace ... thousends of years and still you don't have peace ... must be somthing wrong with you guys , before you have peace you start problems somwhere else ... it's your mentality ... looking for troubles is runing in your blood .... the theird world war will come because of you ... God help the world against the evil who live inside you . i will not read this site anymore .... it makes me sick
4. to nr.1
Norbert ,   Romania   (04.02.06)
Did someone sent your grandfather to a gas chamber?Was he thrown out from his home,left with nothing?By the way-why did he left?There are millions of arabs in Israel...How many jews in arab states??????
5. No your grandfather was a trspasser
David ,   Haifa   (04.02.06)
6. Subject Oversimplification
Peter ,   Morris Plains, USA   (04.02.06)
If all property taken by force during world war 2 were to be returned to its original owners, then Poland would have to return its western half back to Germany. Also former USSR countries would have to return Poland's Eastern lands and properties as millions of Poles were shifted west by the Soviets. It is convenient to simplify this subject to just returning Jewish property but you have to understand that many of the people that were given Jewish property had their property taken away by someone else and they would be bitter "their" property were to be taken again.
7. Poland needs to return the properties!
Tova ,   Brussels. Belgium   (04.02.06)
It is high time the polish government returns the properties to the Jewish people. Almost all other contries in Eastern Europe has done so! Good article - its time for Poland to act!
8. To Nr.2 Palestinian "Hehehe heroe"
(04.02.06)
Hey YOU, "Mudja-head"! Do you really beleive in being able to cancel Israel from the map? Israel is a strong state, its economy and military power is a fact. Even if the EU until now have been supporting your "freedom fight", we finally understood the real nature of your "Palestinian" (i.e. South-Syrian) fight: it is pure terrorism based on a nazi ideology. Do you really believe that the poor and agressive Arab world is able to conquer the "comunity of civilized nations"? Israel is going to define its final borders, mantaining the Jordan Valley, Ariel, Maale Adumim, Gush Etzion and all of Jerusalem.... Of course, the so called Palestinian nation will get its SECOND STATE (as the FIRST ONE is JORDAN with 80% of Palestinan Arab population). Your second Palestinian state will however be only a weak and half-independent state surrended by Israel. Where do you get water, electricity, jobs from ??? Without Israel's help your people will leave the new state and go to other Arab states. And finally: America and Europe won't support a terror state again! It was ENOUGH for now and for ever!
9. Good article - Poland should act!
David McFadden ,   New York   (04.02.06)
Great and moving article! I thought Poland already has returned properties, but apparently it is one of the few countries in the world which has not done so. What a shame! Let's hope they act soon before it’s to late!
10. Responses to little kids...
Ramzi Sfeir ,   Bethlehem, Palestine   (04.02.06)
Norbert, my grandfather DIDN'T LEAVE ...my grandfather was FORCED TO LEAVE and yes he was thrown away by force! He wasnt sent to gaz chambers, BUT HE WAS THROWN OUT OF HIS HOME BY FORCE and he was indeed left with nothing as you said!! he wasn't armed! And instead of difending israel blindly, go read some history! Thats if Chawchesku left any Text books so that you learn....I dont care about how many jews live in arab states,STOP being calling yourself victim while you know very well that you are the occupier, the raper .....Israel killed thousands and stole thousands of home in order to get created and if you dont recognize this, its like you are denying the holocost, you cant accept a reality and deny another! Its history for god's sake!
11. Poles and Ukrainians are unrepentant Anti-Semites!
ER ,   Canada   (04.02.06)
If it takes so many Poles to screw in a light bulb, how many would it take to return the whole house?
12. Keep sleeping dogs lie.
Cavalier Crociatus ,   Atlantic City, USA   (04.02.06)
Yep, stolen property may have to be returned. But then that means that the whole of the State of Israel may have to be returned to those Arabs living in the holyland prior to 1948. ...but then again 'some' issues best not be raised for they may forment other undeniable rights. Ya ya, I know, the Jews lived in Israel for 5000 years....BUT "get thee to the land of the canahan" - said EloHIM, which means the Jews had stole the land to begin with once before. Let's hear now from the "protocollists"!
13. Poland Should Act
Abarbanel ,   USA   (04.02.06)
Austria too has never returned Jewish property. They claimed they were occupied by Germany. Nazis still squat on property in Vienna siezed from Jews. One of the few truths utter by Hitler is that Austrians are Germans. But Germany made reparations, Austria has not!
14. Ramzi you are a whining baby
Caligula's Horse ,   Solomon's stables   (04.02.06)
Stop drowning yourself in self pity and tears, grow up and do something yourself rather than cry about something you're to blame for, but then I remember that Palestinians have never done anything themselves of for themselves, their entier point of existence is to bathe in self pity and blame Israel for the shit they live in, whining, childish erev rav, you remind me of the story about the kid that murdered his parents and cried that he's orphant.
15. Poland must deal with its past
Radek ,   Minneapolis,USA   (04.02.06)
Unfortunately things are ot as simple as the author portrays them. It is not as if Jewish-Poles' property was singled out to be nationaliozed - every single owner of factories, buildings, land (in cities), enterprises etc was subject to the same ype of nationalization. What would be unfair and set bad presedent is to return property to Jewish Poles and not to anybody else. Ideally, it would be "nice" if everyone could get what they usd to own - however - much of the property was completely destroyed during the War, and was rebuilt using government funds. Consequently, the process of regaining preoperty, should be considered on a case by case bases, and broad - sweeping generalizations - should not be made.
16. Poland should give back what was robbed
Dudu ,   Norway   (04.02.06)
Why should Poland keep cashing in on there properties? It is not theirs, they have been robbed from Jews – and its high time we get them back. We should just get back what belongs to us.
17. Re10-history-when it begins????
Norbert ,   Romania   (04.02.06)
You said "I don't care how many jews live in arab countries".Probably you don't know how many were there in Iran,Syria,Egypt etc and how good citizen they were And in what year they established...And for what reason they had to leave empty handed?Those who escaped murder(your grandfather left alive -I presume) There were probably innocent victims among arabs who were or who left Israel and I sincerly regret No wars in history could avoid that.How about targetting civilians-as a pourpose?As a noble cause?How about nr2 -who wrote -Palestine uber alles?Jews were there long before even islam was established.Jerusalem was founded before Mahomed. Jews have all the the right in the world to own land there.Side by side and in peace(if they want) with the arabs.If americans will stay in Iraq 200 years or more -are they entitled to own Iraq?If Israel neighbours won't recognize Israel's right to exist-it'll be war And I ask you :isn't it be better to establish negotiated peace and after that you'll be able to discuss about anything including your grandfathers house. And about Ceausescu--remember he was shot like a criminal he was!!!!
18. Jews.. If you do not give Palestinians theirs land, then
Jerusalem, Palestine   (04.02.06)
stop talking about your lost properties in Poland. After all, you are the worst theives. You came at the British mandate time to steal and not to live in Peace. There will be no Peace upon you till the day of judgment. Funny people. Claim they are the Chosen people, but are unfortunately cursed by Humanity!
19. #1 A thief remains a thief
Daniel ,   Israel   (04.02.06)
The only difference between Arab thieves in Israel and other thieves, is that the Arab thieves have international support in their evil aim to steal the Jewish people's history, homeland and future. The Arabs expelled nearly 1 million Jewish refugees and stole Jewish real estates and fortunes worth billions of US dollars which you and other Arab propagandadists conveniently forget. You Arabs tried to replicate Hitler's final solution on Israel in 1948 and lost and you have to live with the consequences. Beit Lehem, the town you claim to live in, is a HEBREW name which only underlines the shallowness of your lies. You should thank Allah everyday that Israel is civilized because any other country would have got rid of criminals and liars like you long time ago.
20. So the palestinians want to be cannanites?
Jonathan Levi ,   Jerusalem Israel   (04.02.06)
Ok so heres my feeling. There is truth to the whole thing about the Cannanites being in the lands of Israel before G-d gave us the land. Now I know for a fact the palestinians are not Cannanites and more probably many Jews descended from Cannanites who converted and took to the religion. However for the sake of these imposters and cry babies lets allow them to retake Israel under the pretense of them being Cannanites. Of course there has got to be some ground rules. Go back to worshipping Ba'al and forget all about Islam. Go back to all those infanticide practises your "supposed" ancestors were legendary for. When you've done all that then I suppose I'll be willing to give back the land "your" land.
21. #18 The Romans didn't know any "Palestinians"
Daniel ,   Israel   (04.02.06)
When the Romans occupied Judea they coined coins with the inscription "Judea capta", Judea captured. "Palestine" is nothing else but the historically distorted name for Judea that the Roman emperor Hadrian coined in 135 CE to try to obliterate the connection between the Jewish people and their eternal homeland. You are nothing else but a pathetic brainwashed follower of an Egyptian Arab whose life was soaked with Jewish blood, and nazi-propaganda lies: Yassir Arafat.
22. Few words from the defendant
Marcin ,   Poland   (04.02.06)
1. ER - it's a shame for Canada that you call your self Canadian 2. Dudu - don't think in a GW Bush-like manner: how do you know that Poland has "robbed" the properties? How do you know that anybody cashes on them? How do you know who lives in these properties? Do you know at least a tiny bit of Polish history? I fully support the view of Peter (No. 6) in this matter. Things are never simple. 3. I don't think that paying money to descendands of those that suffered is any way of commemorating them. Btw, who's going to pay for the complete destruction of Warsaw and the extinction of thousands during the Warsaw uprising on 1944? Poland was the victim not an oppressor, if you forgot that. 4. I support the view of the Arab guys in this discussion (with regards to Palestinian property taken over by the Israeli state). 5. I'm not anti-semite.
23. Why is Poland different than other countries
Time for justice!   (04.02.06)
Radek, Why is Poland different than other countries? Poland is the only Eastern European country — outside of the former Soviet Union countries — that has failed to adopt a private property restitution law. As the author points out - as a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights, Poland is legally bound to abide by any decision made by the court. Poland has been in direct violation of specific provisions of the convention related to people’s rights of property.” (both Jews and non-Jews alike). Is this acceptable, Radek?
24. Issue is burning for everyone...
almos't an owner ,   Warsaw, Poland   (04.02.06)
... but you have to remember that the legal system (in majority of the countries worldwide including PL) does not support anyone basing on the national origin and since 18 years Polish governments did not managed to settle nazi and/or communist stolen properties cases with anyone (no mater if the issue is regarding Jews, Kashebi, Polish, Lithuanians, Belarussians, Lemks, Armenians - but generally all former property owners in the boarders of today's and past Poland) so I would rephrase you your claim to: Poland's reputation as a force for moral good would be made greater by reaching a just settlement, acceptable to all parties, on the issue of restitution of private property seized from Polish ex and current nationals/residents. I think that the picture you presented might suggest that this issue might be regarding 'Jewish properties' only but in fact this is the case for majority of pre-war owners whose properties got nationalized in 40s and 50s. Unfortunately up to this point Polish governments managed to settle religious groups claims (no matter the belief). I'm pretty much hands on with claiming the return of my great-grandfather’s brewery so I'm aware of the legislation as well as the administrative nightmare to go trough and I wish all people getting on the same track loads of luck and patience. My Kindest
25. Stolen land
Jack ,   mountain view, ca   (04.02.06)
the Jews have to be compensated in some way, but it would only be fair that if Jews received their land back, germans receive their land back in western europe, Poles received their land back in eastern europe. See the problem? It is unfair to just give Jews back their stolen property. A number of parties are victims.
26. Palestine: It is not a matter of a name
Truth lover ,   Palestine   (04.02.06)
You cannot diqualify the Palestinians to live in their home land just because you do not belive in the origin of the word Palestine. Palestinians are a term agreed on internationally. We mean by Palestinians the Arabic speaking people who existed in the Holy Land before the british mandate. They were muslims in generally, to be a large degree christians also. And very few Jewish Palestiniains. Now, Most Paletinians root back to the time of Canaan and Phoneicia. This is a fact. They were arabized in the seventh centry with the arrival of muslim arabs. Canannite are also Arabian in origin. They are an extension of semitic tribes located in the northern arabia. Arabs call the Canaanite: "Arab Arebah" Which means the original arabs. And the Arabs of the seventh century are called: "Arab mustarebah". Which means they were Arabized because in majority, they came from Mecca and Medina who were known to be Ishmalites rather than Original Arabs. Anyway. we are all the son of Adam and Adam is from dust. No point to say this or that, who own and who not. The most important thing is to give the rights of people to the people. There is no question that the existence of Israel is on the cost of the native Palestinian population. No question that most Jews who live in today's ISrael did own nothing in this land before their arrival. They were given this land by the British and you cannot deny that. The only Jews who really belong to here, are those who stayed here and never left this land. Luckily many of these still proud to be Arabic speaking people like those in Nablus. But over all, those who came in Poland and Russia and etc cannot prove anything and they are theives only.
27. Candidate for Parliament?
Folkpartist ,   Sweden   (04.02.06)
Come on Shatz you stand no chance coming in!
28. Re: candidate for Parliament
Bjorn ,   Sweden   (04.03.06)
I’m supporting Schatz – let’s get a strong voice for justice in the Swedish parliament. And lets get Poland to return those robbed properties to their rightful owners. May god always bless the Jewish people.
29. #24 I agree with you
Time for justice!   (04.03.06)
To: almost an owner I agree with you – Jews and Poles should join hands and lobby the Polish parliament to pass legislation providing for the complete return of property to ANYONE (Jew and non-Jew alike) which had his/her property confiscated. Of course the law should apply equally to anyone which had his property confiscated!
30. Re23
Radek ,   Minneapolis, USA   (04.03.06)
"Time for justice!", you ask why Poland is different than other countries in the EU - this is a very easy question to answer. Unlike all the "western' countries in the EU, Poland was subject to a communist government, which confiscated a LOT of private property. Unlike the other "eastern" nations in the European union, Poland was devasteted by the war to a far larger degree. After nationalization, much (if not most) of the reconstruction effort was carried out by tax payers money, volantury labor, and - like it or not - the communist government. Consequently, the very many cases that are being held in Polish courts right now are asking to have property returned to them, that after the war - simply did not exist. Consequntly, it is seems rather unfair, that the entire nation contributed to rebuilding its destroyed cities in the past, but now a few a chosen individuals are clammering to "regain" what is theirs, when what was truley their, no longer exists. Now, don't get me wrong, it is absolutely true that the communist government did actually steal from people who had already rebuilt their hotels, buildings and factories - and if you become better aquianted with these particular cases, you will see that those individuals are indeed winning their battles in court. I say, let the rule of law hold. Let us wait for the courts to decide on the issues and let us not try to apply pressure on a sovereign nation that is indeed - in this aspect at least - unlike any other country in the EU.
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