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New movement: IDF soldiers and Fatah prisoners
Ynet
Published: 10.04.06, 12:31
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29 Talkbacks for this article
1. Still blaming the jooooz
J ,   London   (04.10.06)
This article is another propaganda piece designed to create a distorted image of the conflict and blame only the usual target, the Israelis. "“The occupation is the main source of the violence and armed resistance." No, no. The koran is the main source of violence and armed "jihad". Maybe these fateh men could explain what fateh stands for? Conquest by Islamic Jihad???
2. To understand Israel's partner for peace...
Josh ,   Jerusalem   (04.10.06)
I challenge anyone to tell me exactly where these partners for peace are. It's very easy to blab on about lofty idealism and how we all just want to get along, but unfortunately, reality is much uglier than that. The truth is that the Palestinian society uses vicious propaganda to instill hatred and intolerance through their religion and in their schools. As long as this continues, there will never be a partner for peace. I invite anyone who does not believe this to look through this website. The images are disturbing, but it is a legitimate site and it portrays Palestinian society through direct translations of their media. http://www.pmw.org.il
3. My comments are censored
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (04.10.06)
4. to # 1+2 Diabolo
Saba   (04.10.06)
after exterminating all pals men women kids .......can you us what is your next target ....i propose you to begin working on exchanging the nabors of Israel by Sweedesh and Suis or Danish what do you think ??
5. As usual with these "dialogues" we are portrayed as villains
Kobi ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (04.10.06)
The conditions for these "peace initiatives" is to bad mouth Israel , its pathetic.
6. How naive, how sad...
Parkek ,   Hong Kong   (04.10.06)
These useful idiots forgot the bit about the return of the refugees... "...there is a partner for peace" I guess that must refer to the large majority that voted for Hamas and supports intentional killing of non-combatant women and children. Fortunately, the overwhelming majority of Israelis aren't quite so dangerously naive, nor are they so suicidal!
7. Partners to talk to?
Caroline ,   Israel   (04.10.06)
The only Israeli partners to talk to accepted by palestinians are the left wingers who agree to withdraw to the 1967 borders and to accept the East Jerusalem as capital of palestinian state. The palestinians accept Jews when they play their game - like Naturei Carta, Shalom Achshav and now that newborn movement. But how many palestinians or Israeli arabs who accept the Israel's majority stand about the united Jerusalem as capital of the State of Israel have you seen? I haven't seen even one! Come on, this movement isn't worth time to read it.
8. As Rodney King said..
Ron ,   LA   (04.10.06)
Why we can not just get along... Let them negotiate.... EU likes to pay for this. May be they even get tickets to Norway.
9. From fellow IDF veteran
Ron ,   LA   (04.10.06)
During WW2 we never had any piece movements with Nazis and Japanese. Carpet bombing for Europe and 2 Nukes for Japanese. This was the verdict. Yes, Sir. 4 years and the war were OVER. No Piss conferences and no Quartets. Only Big Band orchestra with lots of B-52’s Look at Japan and Germany. BE- A- UTI FUL. This is how the world came to respect America. Nobody BEGGED for respect. Respect for America or Israel? We don’t need respect. Fear. Much more efficient. Dust off history books. Look at Truman philosophy. Look how Kutuzov fought. He said “ Mordoi da v govno” meaning ; Put their face into their own shit. Ugly but efficient. This is the reason, Russians don’t speak French now, versus why French going to speak Arabic in the near future. They gonna get their “tolerance” down their throat. Look at Iraq. Kindergarten. Look at Israel. Circus. If you want to win, just go and win. Period. Here in Israel we have Piss negotiations, Cycle of violence, Piss of the brave and Shsmuck map. War is giving them all you got. War is to give them HELL. This is what I want to shout in their ear. Stop already. Learn from wise man like Truman. He was a simple man. Truth is always simple. Give them hell! Put their intifada down their throat. After we make Haniye meet Rantissi and Yassin , they will think faster. Shame, girly men.
10. #1, you're weird
Fateh Man   (04.10.06)
"Maybe these fateh men could explain what fateh stands for? Conquest by Islamic Jihad???" Umm actually Fateh in Arabic is an backwards-acronym. 'Haraket Tahrir Falasteen' which backwards as an acronym spells out FTH, add vowels and you have FaTeH. In English it translates to 'Party of Liberating Palestine'. Nice try though.
11. Ron, LA where to you write such stuff?
Nadav ,   Misgav   (04.10.06)
In the bathroom?
12. Lying Number #10
J ,   London   (04.10.06)
""Fatah" is a reverse acronym of the Arabic, Harekat at-Tahrir al-Wataniyyeh al-Falastiniyyeh. The word "Fatah" means "conquest by means of jihad [Islamic holy war]"." You're taqiya won't work on me sonny jim
13. Partners in peace or what?
Hilda ,   USA   (04.10.06)
I think these Israelis have lost their minds. They are partnering with the devil to destroy Israel. Next they will indeed let all the Palestinians who want in , in and that will in effect destroy Israle They are as naive as those in US who are defending open borders and amnesty. That will destroy American democracy and this movement will mean the end of Israel.
14. #10 Amazing photos plus#11 Girly Nadav
Ron ,   LA   (04.10.06)
Fateh man, thanks for clarification. By the way congratulation for your fateh website for kids where you show lots of educational photos with rolling heads specially for children. No wander your kids are so peace loving.. Take a look, click some photos, it's probably normal for you....Can you translate what your Palestinian kids learn? http://www.al-fateh.net/site/pictures38.htm The caption right under that headless martyr says something along the lines of: "The martyr Zainab Abu is safe." Even though her head is separated from her body, she is still wearing her veil and so "on to exalted paradise O Zainab ... sister of men." #11 Go negotiate with fateh men. When have a piss agreement let me know..
15. #11,Regardless of the language, Ron is right
AK   (04.10.06)
Every time you see such a wonderful group of peace- loving people ask yourself -- who is behind it and why. Peace Now sounds great too, but is basically an anti-Israeli and pro-Arab organization whose ultimate aim is to destroy Israeli morale and force Israel down the road to an unconditional surrender. To accomplish their goal they receive ample funding from those who wish them to succeed. We all know what the Arabs want -- they declare it often and openly enough : Israel does not belong in the Middle East and must be destroyed by any means whatsoever, regardless how long it will take. Simple. To make it palatable for us queasy Americans and Europeans they cloak it on occasion, for our consumption alone, in a more peaceful and vague language about the Palestinian rights, but not many are really fooled; some prefer to believe it . Now, what do the Israelis want? I thought I knew, but now, I'm not sure.
16. PLO Leader says: "The PALESTINIAN PEOPLE DOES NOT EXIST"
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (04.10.06)
Re-take Gaza! It's been transformed into terrorist training camps and a GLOBAL base for TERROR! Global jihad is greatly empowered as the U.S. EU and UN support a GLOBAL Islamic TERROR state in Israel that will threaten the world. There NEVER was an Arab country of Palestine. Jerusalem was NEVER the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Jerusalem is mentioned over 800 times in the Bible, not once in the Koran. Arabs FIRST took the name “Palestinians” in 1967. Arafat was the FIRST leader of this NEW PEOPLE. Before 1948, Jews were known as the Palestinians! The Jewish newspaper, the Jerusalem Post was called the Palestine Post. http://palestinepostings.blogspot.com/2005/06/historical-palestinians-very-simple.html Human Rights Destroyers want Jews barred from living in Judea and Samaria, the Biblical heartland which includes Hebron, the first Jewish city, and second in Jewish holiness, because JEWS are NOT MUSLIM! Respect is always given to Muslims! No one is trying to force Muslims out of Mecca and Medina! After the Jews miraculously transformed desert and swamps into rich, agricultural land (for which Jews are world famous!) Arabs came in large numbers from Arab countries for jobs from the Jews. The fact that the overwhelming majority of Arabs resided only briefly in Palestine is attested to by the special UN decree: that any Arab who had resided in Palestine FOR ONLY TWO YEARS BEFORE 1948, and then left, would be considered a refugee and so would his descendants!!! On March 31, 1977, Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein: “The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.
17. Linda Rivera - So What?!
Muslim   (04.10.06)
I'm sick of all this "Jerusalem is not in the Quran so they have no right to live there" bullshit. How many times is America mentioned in the Bible? How many times in Long Island or Brooklyn or even New York City mentioned in the Torah? How many times Indonesia mentioned in the Quran? It doesn't mean Christians can't live in America just because America isn't in the Bible. Just because NYC isn't in the Torah it doesn't mean that the majority of world Jews can't live there. Most Muslims live in Indonesia even though Jakarta isn't once mentioned in the Quran. Come up with a new argument please!
18. #17 - It is what the PLO says. Argue with the PLO
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (04.10.06)
19. Rabid JEW-HATE IGNORES JUSTICE for JEWISH REFUGEES
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (04.10.06)
Human Rights Destroyers seek to deny Jews the right to live in their Biblical heartland of Judea and Samaria because they are Jews and not Muslims. Around 1948, Arabs violently ethnically cleansed about one million Jews from Arab countries. Arab governments seized the land, homes, bank accounts, businesses and assets of the Jews. Most Jewish refugees fled to Israel. The injustice and cruelty of Arab Muslim countries to Jews and the obligation of Arabs to compensate the Jewish refugees and their descendants in land and finances, must never be forgotten, but discussed constantly in homes, schools, social activities, cultural events and synagogues.
20. All Land STOLEN in 1948 ISLAMIC INVASION must be RETURNED
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (04.10.06)
In 1948, Egypt invaded Gaza, ethnically cleansing all Jews. In 1948, Jordan invaded Judea, Samaria and east Jerusalem, ethnically cleansing all Jews. Jordan destroyed 58 synagogues in Jerusalem. The Jewish land, homes, properties & businesses stolen from the Jews in the 1948 Islamic invasion must never be forgotten. The return to Jewish ownership of these stolen assets is an urgent human rights issue requiring constant discussion in homes, schools, social activities, cultural events and synagogues.
21. Ex IDF: PA society voted for Hamas platform of Mass Murder
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (04.10.06)
From the Hamas Charter: Israel, by virtue of its being Jewish and of having a Jewish population, defies Islam and the Muslims. Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it. The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
22. Sick
jason white ,   afula,israel   (04.10.06)
These Israelis must be sick in the head. Did U.S. soldiers become friends with german or japanese soldiers in the middle of wwII? Did any soldiers ever make friends with terrorists? Did someone ask these pinheads to make a peace deal with terrorists? To celebrate Passover with pal.prisoners' is degrading. To meet with europervs is stupid. And who the hell is david bozo? These are cowards and traitors.I am glad I served in a combat unit without scum like that.
23. Delusional. The PA Arabs Get Them To Give Up Their Capital!
Adina kutnicki ,   US   (04.11.06)
This is not news. There are many radical left people in the IDF who have no problem giving up Jerusalem and returning to the Auschwitz borders. While they think they are being so progressive and open minded, they do not realize that once the PA Arabs control the Jewish capital (any part of it) the rest of Israel will fall like dominoes. Or, at the very least they will be forced to bear arms once again just to save their throats from being slit. Poor, deluded souls.
24. It has to start somewhere
Pam ,   Arizona   (04.11.06)
I can't understand -- how can enemies learning to hate each other less, be a bad thing to so many of you? It is a nano-step towards peace, rather than a never-ending cease-fire, which seems the best that can be hoped for most of the time. These men don't seem naive -- idealistic, yes, but there's a difference. They see the mutual reactivity and deeply-rooted bitterness, but they think people can be the solution, and governments perpetuate the problems. Good luck, and good work, gentlemen. (Now try including a few women.)
25. Pam, this isn't college get together.
Ak   (04.11.06)
This is a foreign financed job to demoralized Israelis even more than they already are. After all the Israelis they have already elected a leader too tired to fight and too tired to win, while their Arab counterparts have elected Hamas, which prior to the crash course to improve their manners, complements of KGB and Putin, vowed to drink the Jewish blood, oh have you already forgotten. Make peace with that. Regardless all those good will talks around the campfire, the Israelis are still being showered with rockets Hardly propitious for peaceful coexistence.
26. well done!
Jacob Cohen ,   Israel   (04.12.06)
keep on the good work,. you are doing the right thing. do not pay too much attention to all kinds of people with WWII complexes and inferiority problems. happy Spring to all of you.
27. **thank you to these brave men***
i. rachel ,   ca/ny   (04.29.06)
I am so sickened and disheartened by the vitriolic spew of so many small, frightened souls who responded to this article -- I simply had to add my voice to Pam and Jacob's. I can't tell you how inspired and encouraged I am by your courageous stance. Unfortunately, the array of vicious and truly delusional responses to this article demonstrate just what you're up against, which makes what you're doing all the more admirable. Please continue this vital work, in spite of all the obstacles. You are truly the great hope of Israelis and Palestinians of all faiths.
28. In response to the first twenty+ posts 1
Gordon ,   England   (05.01.06)
The responses to this article so far have been particularly one sided and frequently sickening. How many Palestinians have access to computers and understand English? Not that I trust their responses would be any more reasonable. Firstly I think it is necessary to point out that every society has a proportion of fundamentalists or extremists. Yes, there are Palestinian people who deny the state of Israel and would like to see it collapse so that the whole of the Middle East could 'belong' to Muslims/Arabs and who aren't against using violence as a means to that end. Yes, there are Israelis who would not object to the genocide or at least complete disposal/removal of Palestinians from what they believe or are aware is legally Israeli land and Holy sights. Equally there are Palestinians and Israelis who are against the ongoing violence but still hold strong beliefs on what should happen. The proportion of people who hold extreme views increases the more unstable and desperate a situation becomes, because fear and anger make people far more susceptible to believe everything those who wield power or influence tell them. It is easier to channel anger against a named enemy. The majority of Palestinian people in power are not reasonable; they do encourage the teaching of Jihad and pose a threat in one or other capacity, but are they in power because every Palestinian agrees that Jews should killed, or because through their own experiences of the Israeli forces they feel oppressed? People are born of their situation. If you are young and Jewish and living in Israel, if a sibling is killed as a result of a Palestinian terrorist blast, if everything you are taught, your whole education is geared towards explaining how Jewish people, your people, have been persecuted all over the world particularly in the middle east, how land rightfully belonging to Jewish people has been stolen and that Palestinians want to destroy you, then not surprisingly the end result is likely to be anger and outrage. If, on the other hand, you were born into a Palestinian family, living in poverty or without basic human needs such as a reliable water supply, if your day to day movement is restricted by Israeli soldiers who are often unreasonable, who destroy homes and often worse causing you to live in a constant state of fear, if just twenty minutes away people are living relatively speaking a life of luxury, if you feel as if your whole people are being oppressed, if politicians and religious leaders on 'your side' constantly expound the glory of defeating 'the enemy' who cause all your suffering and launch missiles at your family, is it really any wonder that a proportion of these people feel this justifies retaliation? Plus they are often recruited into factions at the age of eleven or twelve. I think it is necessary here for me to say I am not trying to belittle the very real threat posed by some Palestinians to Israel. It frightens me how firmly held and uncompromising some peoples beliefs are. How it is possible to completely dehumanise a whole group of people because of who they are, because of everything that has happened in your life that is unjust and because of the atrocities perpetrated on your ancestors by theirs. By all means the governments and a proportion of those people it is so easy to hate are responsible and there has to be a degree of accountability somewhere. But equally are you prepared to take responsibility for every single crime anybody who belongs to 'your people’ has committed. Punish those who are responsible but please somewhere distinguish between those people who cause these problems and those who are caught up in it and just a by-product of there situation.
29. In response to the first 20+ posts 2
Gordon ,   England   (05.01.06)
Is there a point in time when you should stop punishing people for crimes their ancestors committed anyway? I can’t work it out. Should Britain still be paying for the atrocities that occurred during its empire building, or slavery? There has to be a point at which these things are left alone, surely in order for progress to be made. But who decides how many years is enough of a time lapse, and where does taking responsibility end and forgiveness begin? Do white American and Australian people still have a debt to pay to the indigenous people of those countries? In truth I am ill-equipped to understand the position of either Israeli Jews or Palestine Arabs. Firstly, I have never practised or belonged to any religion. I have no experience of belonging to a people and I am extremely fortunate in that I live in a country where the political climate is stable and the risks are minimal. It is equally horrific to me to think of all the Jewish people killed in WWII as it is to think of all the Kurdish people destroyed in Iraq. Maybe I am naive and idealistic. I know I am not especially well informed, and through personal experience I am ill-equipped to understand what it could feel like to be either Israeli or a Palestinian, but I cannot see how a group who try to achieve something through discussion and peaceful means is any form of propaganda. ‘They see the mutual reactivity and deeply-rooted bitterness, but they think people can be the solution, and governments perpetuate the problems.’ As I understand it this conflict is not directly comparable to WWII. It is not a case of 'nuking' a country or a massive military operation as someone suggested. Hiroshima was tragic enough in itself. There is no obvious Hitler to defeat, though I am aware a number of Palestinians are probably comparable. The violence seems to be a never ending cycle, that fuels further retaliation on both sides and I think it is dangerous to denounce reasonable people on both sides who want to see an end to it. As an Israeli, surely it is as necessary to be able to admit that the conduct of the Israeli army is not always exemplary as it is to be aware of the large extremist threat posed by many Palestinians.
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