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Haredi father: Police fabricated confession
Ilan Marciano
Published: 25.04.06, 23:07
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27 Talkbacks for this article
1. Fertilizer
Debra Cohen   (04.25.06)
So, did the baby bite and beat himself, and then, throw himself against a wall?
2. To Ynet: Nobody knows what happened, so shut up
(04.25.06)
3. #1 Do you know all the evidence, can you see everything?
(04.25.06)
Because that would be amazing, you'd be as powerfull as a diety, nobody knows the full story and nobody knows what really happened. WAIT UNTIL WE HAVE ALL THE EVIDENCE
4. NO Lashon Hora!!!!!!!!!!
(04.25.06)
5. The Amona Police ride again
bill handel ,   brooklyn, usa   (04.26.06)
We all saw what the Police are capable of doing in Amona. I believe they framed Valas, using deceit and pressure tactics against a naive Yeshiva man, who couldn't imagine that fellow-Jews would be capable of such evil.
6. # 3
Debra Cohen   (04.26.06)
Spare me your superstitious nonsense. Someone is guilty of child abuse and, if not murder, then, at least manslaughter. Or, perhaps you think it was the work of "a diety." If not, deal with it and stop your insipid rationalizing of what is obviously a crime.
7. the rioting and damage is undeniable
yitzchak ,   brooklyn, ny   (04.26.06)
the qustion is not guilt or innocence - that will be decided - and if guilty - he will not escape Hashem's judgement what is beyond doubt is the despicable behavior of certain chareidim in rioting and damaging public property - what does baba kama say about that ??? - not all chareidim behaved in this disgusting manner - and there are many very good chareidim such as the Ger chasidim, the sanzer/klosenberg chasidim, chabad, Rav Grossmen, etc.
8. OJ and Scott Peterson will help find the real killer.
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (04.26.06)
9. doctor's report
Roland ,   israel   (04.26.06)
were the police that only ones that saw the baby. was he not examined superficialy by the medical examiner? or is he too a blood libeler? did the chevra kadisha not see the body too?
10. Valas
D Hirod ,   UK   (04.26.06)
Why did it take the court system two weeks to fix a hearing to let him out on bail? In the UK this would have been achieved within a day or two. Perhaps there is some substance to the reports that he was drugged in order to obtain a confession, and thus they had to allow time for the chemicals to pass out of his system. It's hard for us in the West to imagine the average Israeli Policeman. Even the famous NY cops at their worst were better than these. They come from the lowest social classes and many are barely literate. Their hatred for europeans (ashkenazim) is almost beyond description, and of course targets the apparently weakest elements in society - the religious - whom they've been taught to hate and despise through the educational system. The starry-eyed westerners who take the internal mechanism of the State at face value should spend a little time out on the streets talking and listening to people from the poorer areas. They are more like the blacks in the deep south of the USA than anything we could imagine. Dress them up in a uniform and you've got a recipe for maltreating someone like Valas.
11. Outrageous That Anyone Could Defend Such A Monster
Beth Landau ,   Tel Aviv   (04.26.06)
The guy confessed in yiddish to an undercover cop he assumed was his lawyer. Such scum should be locked behind bars FOREVER!!!
12. Very Good Points You Bring Up Debra (# 1)
Beth Landau ,   Tel Aviv   (04.26.06)
There simply is no other explanation how that baby got its severe injuries, as you so cleverly pointed out.
13. Dear Debra Cohen
Yonason Herschlag ,   Betar Elite   (04.26.06)
Debra Cohen, You did not see him bite his baby, nor did you see bite marks on the baby. You did not witness any abuse of the baby. So why are you so sure that he intentionally abused his baby?! You don't even have any evidence at all. You rely solely on hearsay, rumors, and fabricated media reports to reach your conclusion that your fellow Jew is guilty of murder. If the accusations were against someone you love and respect and have confidence in his morality, would you assume he is guilty based on such media reports? The golden rule of Judaism is to love thy neighbor as thyself. Speaking, and believing loshon hora stems from hatred. Please be more careful. According to how we judge others we will also ultimately be judged.
14. due process
(04.26.06)
i don't even care if he was innocent or guilty (I think he was innocent - just a side point). What really matters is his due process rights were violated. By sending in an agent dressed as a laywer, he believed that he had confidentiality (this is besides the point that he never issued a statement, only wrote a letter, which is less valueble as evidence). He should be able to say anything he wants to his lawyer and have that information remain safe. However, the government decided to trick him by sending him a lawyer in disguise. From a technical point of view, once he was arrested, he probably would have asked for a lawyer. Once he did so, he can no longer be interrogated unless his lawyer is present. By tricking him into thinking that this agent was a lawyer, the government took away his right to counsel. That information cannot be used in court. In fact, this man should go free because there cannot be a fair trial after this information hit the newspapers. His due process rights were breached and now the government should let him go!!
15. Stop Defending The Baby Killer
Fruma ,   Bnei Brak   (04.26.06)
We need to stop being in denial about this case. It's doing us no good to keep on pretending something terrible did not happen here. The father already owned up to what he did when he confessed. Let's hope this monster stops dragging our community through the mud already.
16. To No. 10
NYC Girl   (04.26.06)
I'm not certain why you have such a vicious attitude toward the Israeli police, although I must say I detected more than a bit of ethnic bigotry in your attack. But maybe you should ask Abner Louima if the worst New York City cops are better than these guys.
17. #13
Talula Belle ,   Israel   (04.26.06)
You are another sad pathetic moron. A baby is dead. EVEN (which I doubt very much) if say a babysitter did it, what sort of parents wouldn't notice such abuse? They are both as guilty as hell and I hope they live a life of misery and abuse behind bars. You people disgust me you are repugnant.
18. Mum, What's for supper?
Sivan ,   Tel-Aviv   (04.26.06)
I agree with # 1 and # 15. And when I read about the preparations for a celebratory meal it made me feel sick. Their son/grandchild has been brutally murdered and they are busy in the kitchen cooking for the murder suspect.
19. #16
Moish ,   Israel   (04.26.06)
NYC girl, have you ever had any experience with the Israeli police? I have and i will testify in a court of law to their foul language, deceit and brutality.It has been proven in court that the head of the Abu Kabir forensic Institute , Dr. Yehuda Hiss has rushed examinations and not weighed all evidence to draw conclusions to show hispersonal bias. Many of his finding have been thrown out of court and he has been fined and demoted. You have no idea of the corruption that exists in the police dept. and to the methods they stoop to to extract "confessions" to close a case so they will not draw public criticism.
20. #17
Manni Lambert ,   Dorion, Qc, CANADA   (04.26.06)
Stop being such a bitch. The baby is dead ,yes we all know that. If the father is guilty let the courts prove it without tricking the dude into a confession. He should have legal rights like anyone else. Or do you Israelis only apply it to yourselves and not to the orthodox and arabs???
21. Disgusting
Liz Tal   (04.26.06)
The whole thing is sad beyond belief. There is a dead baby here, which I am sure no-one really believes that the father intended to murder. but the fact is that he, and the mother, were responsible for it, and have to be accountable for everything that happens to it. That is the bottom line. If the baby died as a result of their care or lack thereof - they are responsible - FULL STOP. This issue raises so many, many questions - which should one day be answered, but not here. But the saddest thing about this is, that one day, Yisrael Vales will be back home with his wife (or with someone else if their marriage breaks up over this incident) making more babies........
22. Don't rush to judge
Micha ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (04.26.06)
What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? Only a fool, or someone with an agenda, would judge this case based only on what they read in the media.
23. to #16 NYC Girl
D Hirod ,   UK   (04.26.06)
The reason for my negative attitude towards the Israeli police is because I come from a civilised country (UK) where the police forces traditionally come from a somewhat higher social class. I have seen the Israeli police in action and they are befitting of third-world dictatorship, not a democracy. Perhaps those that are posted to the affluent costal towns are somewhat better behaved - because it is in the interest of the police to polish their image within the areas of their power-base. I have no ethnocentric bias, as you put it - just that I am prepared to admit that the Sefaradim were brought to Israel to serve as canon-fodder and to do the menial tasks. After 67, and having been nearly 20 years in the country, and established themselves somewhat, they were replaced by Arabs, then by the Falashas, now by Filipinos and Ukrainians. Admitting to the truth is not racism. By explaining their attitude towards ashkenazim, I am actually exonerating them of the worst criticism; their attitude is a result of imposed poverty, lack of education and indoctrination by the state education system. Many educated, and even religious sefaradim carry an enormous and regrettable chip on their shoulder against the ashkenazi community. Since the haredi community typifies that stereotype - secular ashkenazim are just 'Israelis' and the people who landed the sefaradim in their predicament - they are convenient scapegoats. The point I am making is that this episode was immediately seen on both sides as symbolic of the tensions within Israeli society, and is being treated as such. Others before me have asked why the father should have been repeated refered to as haredi. when in other instances (sefardi, NRP, gay, meretz etc) his orientation would not be mentioned - unless he were an Arab of course. Oh, and the NYP have nothing to be ashamed of compared to those in the deep South - or even California (I forget the name of the Black man murdered by Police a few years back), but we foreigners rarely get beyond the confines of NY to sample the others.
24. apparently it's a lie. probably not the only one...
Anonymus   (04.26.06)
"Valas' wife told confidents that when her husband was arrested, an investigator disguised as a lawyer sent by the family spoke to her husband in Yiddish and succeeded in convincing him that if he pleads guilty he will be released immediately." who should believe this? this guy is a member of an anti-zionist movement. he would not trust anybody he doesn't know. and then after he is 19 and probably has learned torah/talmud for his lifetime, then he thinks the zionist police will release him after he pleads guilty? yeah right, and i saw kosher pigs flying around.
25. Let's wait for the trial
Karen R ,   Maryland   (04.26.06)
Admittedly, if the information published in the media is correct, it's a typical case of child abuse. However, Israel is a democracy with a court system that presumes innocence until guilt is proved. As Debra pointed out, the baby didn't beat itself to death. But we must wait for the court's verdict before we declare the young man guilty. If he is guilty, then he should go to jail for a long time (and get psychiatric counseling too). However, he isn't convicted yet, so let's tone it down a little.
26. #21
Dorothy Friend ,   Tel Aviv   (04.26.06)
They want us to leave them alone? Let's leave them alone. They don't want us to interfere in the way the rear children, fine. Or let him skip bail and flee to Brooklyn. There when he kills the next crippled baby he goes to prison for life, where life MEANS life, and someone else foots the bill for the food.
27. #20
Talula Belle ,   Israel   (04.27.06)
And how do you know they tricked him? because he said so? he killed his baby in the most vile and dispicable manner and you prattle on about his legal rights? You're another pathetic loser who makes me sick. The Judical system in this country applies to everyone. He just made their job that little bit easier by explaining in great detail how he murdered his 3 month old son. Why? because his neck was deformed. So sod off.
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