Irina, to quote Ron (to Ray) and you: [Ron]: You write with such an undertone of disdain towards America. Why do you live there?" [Irina]:Because he is an AMERICAN. Because it's in American culture to criticize America. Because that's what America is all about. No, Irina, America is not all about criticizing America, and it is certainly not all about writing with an "undertone of disdain towards America." In any free society, one can (by definition) criticize one's government or one's fellow citizens. In fact, though, we Americans are quite patriotic and very proud of the achievements of our country. Based on #27, it seems that you see yourself as a Russian Jew and not an American Jew. That's fine, except that you have just disqualified yourself from commenting on American culture from an insider's perspective. And if you were granted citizenship, I am thinking that a mistake was made. You and Ray seem to be on the same page: you are both here to make money and to escape from your homegrown cesspool. No wonder you defend him.

Ray sez: "We don't have to agree on the past in order to agree on the future." Joy sez: "great parting line." sk (imitating Ron) sez: Moron.

I feel so...undermined.....so....ridiculed....so.......moronic....and...so....exposed.......as...the....moron....i...i...i....must...really...be.. *sob*..........so.....so....so WHAT?! I dont agree with Ray on the past. But he is in agreement that the Israelis are the Palestinian Brethren and thats the bottom line folks. In the words of Porky pig....th-th th-th th-th th-thats all folks.

SK wrote: "Based on #27, it seems that you see yourself as a Russian Jew and not an American Jew." Oh thank you sk. For this Russian-born American Israeli Jew, identity has always been such a complex, multifaceted issue, with so many contradictory undercurrents, until you've set it all straight for me, at last. What an eye opener. Thanks to you, I also finally know what I am doing in this country - making money. Do you also do stock predictions by a chance? cesspool - that's how you characterise our cultures... nice. Then, on the same breath, you demand respect for your own culture. Guess what - I love America, I _am_ America, whether you like it or not. Just not the mindlessly patriotic, arrogant, redneck America you represent. One can be very proud of his country and its achievements and still very critical of it. I don't suppose you'll understand. I'd write more, but I've got to go make some money.

Thanks for being here Ray. We've chatted online before (yes, I am the same Irina - say hi to our friends from me), and I can count on the fingers of one hand the times we've agreed, but here is something you wrote that I agree with 200%: "There is a way out if we look at it not as Palestinians versus Israelis, but as moderates versus extremists. " Very true. And it's hard to even hate the extremists, they are simply our hotheads... not a bad quality, in in of itself. Fatal in some situations though. (But, supremacy? What do you mean?)

Not that I agree with you. I feel bad that you're sobbing, though, and that you're quoting cartoon pigs. Seriously, just review the quotations Ron provides and you will see that the only thing Ray looks forward to is cashing his checks, and he will say absolutely anything to get them.

Vranyo, Irina To all the Jewish folks - why are you doing this? Ray Hanania is about the last living Palestinian dedicated to peace. He is a dynosaur.>>> last living Palestinian? Really? First how do you know and second, Hanania is less Palestinian, than I am Russian. He was born in America and doesn’t know Arabic and Palestinian culture. I was born in Russia, speak Russian fluently and can teach YOU Russian literature including fables of Krylov...<<< He is not a Zionist, granted. No Zionist can be expected to agree with all his views all of the time. So? Show some dignity ppl. Show that you can agree to disagree. >>> What kind of dignity you are talking about? Everything I say is backed up by facts. You and your friend Ray never showed me wrong, because you simply can’t, so you whining here, saying I somehow “insulted “you. Nonsense. Give me facts, not BS . See my response to Hanania about criticism. <<< >>>Hanania and criticism: Hanania sez: "Anyway, just acomment, not a criticism. God knows there's enough criticism around here :) " Ron sez: Criticism is NOT bad. Criticism is essential in working democracy. Constructive criticism make people look at the mirror and change their ways for better. This is fundamental difference between Arab clan society and Israeli cosmopolitan one. ISRAELIS STRIVE to criticize, just read their newspapers. You Arabs are backward, because criticism harts your " pride" so you avoid it . This is the reason your civilization is in decline, while Israeli flourishes. You yourself being born in America, even without speaking Arabic, think and behave as a typical Arab. You relate legitimate criticism with hate and bigotry. This is cultural. You need to hang out with westerners more, so you can learn more of " western values and ideas. People like you brought Arabs to the state they are in now. They allow incompetence to rule them. People who always blame others for their misery, don't have a chance to improve.<<< Now Irina goes: "You write with such an undertone of disdain towards America. Why do you live there?" Because he is an AMERICAN. Because it's in American culture to criticize America. Because that's what America is all about. It makes me sick to hear a Jew echo the same sentiment I've heard from antisemites all the time while growing up in Russia. Arggh. Are not we supposed to know better?>>>Vranyio ( lies) I am Russian Israeli American Jew, Irina. I know what you trying to say. this is not what you are trying to sell to unsuspecting Americans. Russian and Arab cultures have a lot in common, since both are totalitarian. One of the identical points in common is thinking that criticism is bad and insulting. Read this: Vranyo, the Russian Fib • Russians can fudge the facts, a national characteristic called vranyo. In its most common form, it is an inability to face the facts, particularly when the facts do not reflect favourably on Russia. • Americans generally regard compromise as desirable and inevitable, a logical way of doing business. Russians regard compromise as a sign of weakness, a retreat from a correct and morally justified position. They will often out-wait impatient Americans to produce more concessions from them. >>> Arabs too<<< • The term "New Russian" has been coined for many Russian businessmen, some being quite well to do, even by American standards. This new pursuit-of-the-gold mentality is affecting the culture in general. Large screen TVs, VCRs, car ownership, remodels of city and country homes are now all commonplace. The zeal for the almighty dollar, or more accurately, less-than mighty ruble, is affecting everyone from the rich to the pensioner. Materialism has even roosted on Russian relationships.>>> describes you very well- see next post<<< THE REST IS HERE (As a Russian I say the research is too mild, the author is so tolerant, typical American... http://www.goehner.com/russinfo.htm

Now, get off Mr. Hanania's back, here is a nicer lightning rod for you. 1. Gas prices are good for Russian economy. I am a Russian Jew. My father lives in Moscow. Sorry America, this is where my loyalities collide. >>>Thanks for your honesty. You are right here. As I quoted before Irina and Ray are pretty similar here. Ray makes a mighty buck in Arab states like Qatar ( UAE) Irina’s dad in Russia’s 20’s Chicago. You see, it’s common practice for Russia Mafia ( what they call business) to send their families abroad, for safety, since they are shot in the middle of Moscow as part of their “ business negotiations) They normally don’t care for American way of life. They would go to Iraq to sell their mother for mighty buck. See this once again... “Russia has a history of power centrally concentrated in the economy, culture, education, media, religion, and citizens private lives. Initiative has been stifled in the process.”>>>exactly as Arab culture<<< “The assumption that "everyone steals" has erased the nation's sense of right and wrong. Many involved in bribery and embezzlement see it as the only way to survive. They feel justified since, "everyone else is doing it." The police are notorious for corrupt behaviour. While Americans generally trust "the law," Russians have a tremendous distrust of government, police and the military.” >>> There is even famous curse in Russian: “Live on your salary only! (Meaning I wish you can earn only from your salary, not stealing from the government) “A noticeable difference in the students is a lower ability to think for themselves. "Higher Level Thinking Skills" is an unknown term in Russian education. Students are told what the answer is, not why the answer is what it is. "How did you come to that answer?" is not a question a Russian teacher would ask. It is simply right or wrong. Two plus two is four. The reason why is immaterial.” Wonderful observation- good for Arab culture too<<< “Sometimes money is needed to turn Nyet to Da. “ Very good characterization of Russian culture.. In Arabic it is called BAKSHEESH. Now, you can’t go too far in Arabia without baksheesh ( bribe to the government official) “The term "New Russian" has been coined for many Russian businessmen, some being quite well to do, even by American standards. This new pursuit-of-the-gold mentality is affecting the culture in general. Large screen TVs, VCRs, car ownership, remodels of city and country homes are now all commonplace. The zeal for the almighty dollar, or more accurately, less-than mighty ruble, is affecting everyone from the rich to the pensioner. “ Absolutely, positively. Here the rest... http://www.goehner.com/russinfo.htm

Pathetic Ray... Hanania sez: "I received a lot of emails from friends who read the YnetNews columns who told me there is someone who likes me :) " Ron sez: No you didn't. You claim this many times. You can only claim support for your views from Irina (your friend you solicited response from) and Joy who is pathetic in his broken Hebrew. People who wont to respond post their response to this talkback- not your private mail box. If they wont to convince me, why don't they? Answer: Ray invented them to show some support, otherwise how can you explain nobody SHOW their support to Ray? You choose to ignore facts and claim everybody hates you, which is cowardly card. Pathetic Ray...

I don't write columns to earn a living, contrary to the haters who will look for anything, take anything out of context, misquote, partial quote and mini-quote things to death. very pathetic, actually, if you ask me. No, I write these columns because I have one consistency that the haters continue to deny: I believe they are the problem, extremists on both sides. And moderates like a few of us have to keep moving forward. We don't have to agree even on our histories; we can have different views about what was right or wrong in the past, but we MUST agree on the need to achieve a vision of peace based on non-violence. Anyone who says anything else is just trying to provoke conflict, which, unfortunately leads to violence Thanks but it's not money because there isn't any out there doing this at all. (I earn my living writing about far more fascinating topics like Chicago politics.) Ray Hanania www.hanania.com

Irina sez: For this Russian-born American Israeli Jew, identity has always been such a complex, multifaceted issue, with so many contradictory undercurrents, until you've set it all straight for me, at last. What an eye opener. Ron RIAJ ( Russian Israeli American Jew) quotes: (A) “A noticeable difference in the students is a lower ability to think for themselves. "Higher Level Thinking Skills" is an unknown term in Russian education. Students are told what the answer is, not why the answer is what it is..” Wonderful observation- good for Arab culture too<<< (B) "whatever happens," says George Kennan, " and whatever restructuring of the Soviet society, Russia is, and is going to remain a country very different from our own. We should not look for this difference to be overcome in any short space of time." Irina sez: Thanks to you, I also finally know what I am doing in this country - making money. Do you also do stock predictions by a chance? Ron RIAJ quotes: (A) “Sometimes money is needed to turn Nyet to Da. “ Very good characterization of Russian culture.. In Arabic it is called BAKSHEESH. Now, you can’t go too far in Arabia without baksheesh (bribe to the government official) (B) “The term "New Russian" has been coined for many Russian businessmen, some being quite well to do, even by American standards. This new pursuit-of-the-gold mentality is affecting the culture in general. Large screen TVs, VCRs, car ownership, remodels of city and country homes are now all commonplace. The zeal for the almighty dollar, or more accurately, less-than mighty ruble, is affecting everyone from the rich to the pensioner. “ Irina’s thinking is very familiar to somebody with my background. Lots of New Russians are larking in both Israel and America, trying to legitimize money they steal from Russia. One such person bought very big Israeli Soccer club, many other examples... Irina sez: cesspool - that's how you characterise our cultures... nice. Then, on the same breath, you demand respect for your own culture. Guess what - I love America, I _am_ America, whether you like it or not. Just not the mindlessly patriotic, arrogant, redneck America you represent. One can be very proud of his country and its achievements and still very critical of it. I don't suppose you'll understand. I'd write more, but I've got to go make some money. Ron sez: Brechnea, Irina ( Lie) ...Russian Slavophiles also sought to borrow from the West but were determined, at the same time, to protect and preserve Russia's unique cultural values and traditions. The West has been seen as spiritually impoverished and decadent, Russia as morally rich and virtuous....>>> very typical of Russians to make fun of “ naive Americans”. Russians think Americans are STUPID<<>> similar to Arabs culture<<< Russians can fudge the facts, a national characteristic called vranyo( lies). In its most common form, it is an inability to face the facts, particularly when the facts do not reflect favourably on Russia....This new pursuit-of-the-gold mentality is affecting the culture in general. Large screen TVs, VCRs, car ownership, remodels of city and country homes are now all commonplace. The zeal for the almighty dollar, or more accurately, less-than mighty ruble, is affecting everyone from the rich to the pensioner. As Regan said: Доверя́й, но проверя́й. o Transliteration: Doveryay, no proveryay. o Translation: Trust but Verify o English version: Better safe than sorry.

# 35 Response to Irina Irina sez: Thanks for being here Ray. We've chatted online before (yes, I am the same Irina - say hi to our friends from me), and I can count on the fingers of one hand the times we've agreed, but here is something you wrote that I agree with 200%: "There is a way out if we look at it not as Palestinians versus Israelis, but as moderates versus extremists. " Very true. Ron sez: Of course you are his friend and I understood why Hanania asked you to comment, why would you be so protective otherwise? You clearly don’t respond to any facts or well founded Ron’s responses, so as a friend you defend Ray...It is easy to defend moderates versus extremists, especially if you don’t have any clue who is who and what makes Hanania moderate. Hanania has the same ideas as Hamas, but he camouflages them in such a way as to appear “moderate” for some ignorant to agree on... Irina sez: And it's hard to even hate the extremists, they are simply our hotheads... not a bad quality, in in of itself. Fatal in some situations though. (But, supremacy? What do you mean?) Same old... what the hell you are talking about? If you ask Hamas the y will answer that they are moderates, so I have to except that? Are you sane? Are you familiar with my opinion? Why do you think i am an extremist? Is it because you are so ignorant of details?

Ray sez: No, ray you get paid well by your articles, plus lots of prestige. Your way to promote yourself is by intimidation. You provoke and than claim that Jews hate you. You did it with Mason. Now you are trying to contact Olmert office for the interview, saying they will not grant it to you, because they don’t like Palestinians... well in Israeli Knesset we have 13 Palestinians, Olmert see every day. He doesn’t need nobody like Hanania to interview him. Larry King can only dream to interview Olmert, so Hanania, the nobody? You must be kidding. Hanania will use it as a “ race card” to show that those hateful Israelis don’t like Palestinians... Poor baby Hanania... he wants to make a big name for himself... He gonna complain to CNN why Olmert doesn’t give him an interview... Please get him some diapers.. It reminds me to contact The Pope and Queen of England for interview ... I hope they are not anti-Semites to grant me one... Hanania sez: I don't write columns to earn a living, contrary to the haters who will look for anything, take anything out of context, misquote, partial quote and mini-quote things to death. very pathetic, actually, if you ask me. No, I write these columns because I have one consistency that the haters continue to deny:>>> which is? Palestinian? you don’t speak Arabic, joker, you don’t even know Palestinian culture...<<>> Moderates, extremists, haters, moderates, extremists, haters, moderates, extremists, haters, moderates, extremists, haters, moderates, extremists, haters, do you have another tune to whine to?<<<< Hanania sez: Thanks but it's not money because there isn't any out there doing this at all. (I earn my living writing about far more fascinating topics like Chicago politics.)

I am so humbled and touched by Ron's dissection of your responses, Irina, that my own reply to you will be, and needs to be, relatively brief. It is amusing that you suggest I represent "mindlessly patriotic, arrogant, redneck America." Do you refer to the citizens of the oldest continuously functioning democratic republic in the world? The country that brought good government to the West? The country whose citizens have won so many Nobel prizes? The country that in 200 years has produced Hawthorne and Twain and Melville and Thoreau and Eliot? The place where modern skyscrapers were developed, and where, oddly enough, a "prairie style" of architecture was developed at the same time? My grandparents came from ... ta da! ... Russia (before the Soviet Union). Unlike you, my grandparents did not bash America. Indeed, when they arrived here they tried never to use Russian. After a couple of decades, one of my grandmothers had forgotten the language completely (or at least insisted that she had). I don't "demand" respect for American culture. I simply point out that in your case you don't seem to have much of it, and I note that Ray is your soulmate, at least in this respect. I have read Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Nabokov, and Pushkin, and I own shelves of Shostakovich. I am fully aware of the merits of Russian culture. I am also disgusted by what that country has "contributed" to the world in the last 100 years. You, my dear Irina, seem to to be one of the "contributors," I am (truly) sorry to say.

Here is the Hanania test. A Palestinian willing and able to live in peace with Zionists. Not a Zionist himself. A question: is there a Jew reading this, willing and able to at least try to reciprocate? That's the real question... everything else is noise. I knew where your grandparents came from SK. Ron's, too. Whether you know it or not, your behavior is unmistakeably Russian as I am ashamed to admit. However, I expected you to be 1st or at most 2nd generation. This holier than thou attitude is usually more characteristic of neophytes. Americans with a longer history tend to be more even-handed in their love for their country. But what do I know, I live in Seattle. <> *Some* citizens SK... some... not all. Unless you believe your grandmother's patriotic forgetfullness of Russian, coupled with your reading of Pushkin, in translation I presume, has magically made you superior to the rest of the species and immune to human folly. It has not. Ron wrote: <> You are giving yourself undue credit Ron. Don't know what made you think otherwise, but this is the first time I am talking to you. And probably the last, unless you learn to talk less and refrain from openly racist remarks. One reason I LOVE America is that this kind of racist talk won't get you anywhere in this country. You'll learn it pretty quickly... What's your Russian name btw?

You see, you are an American, you don’t understand the mentality. You are guilty, because you don’t understand those “patriotic Americans” like Hanania and Irina (Ivanovna). You see, you Americans don’t understand, Irina came from very so-piss-ticated culture. Who are you with your civilization and Twain and Hemingway to compare to Russians and their Capones? You Americans have Washington, Adams, and Reagan who saved them from themselves... They on the other hand have Lenin, Stalin and Puta-in. Ray Hanania has lots of culture too... like The Arabian Hananian Nights that include fairy tales, fables, romances, farces, legends, and parables. These fanciful, sometimes moronic tales reveal an indecent act of Hnooonia’s fable telling. Take for example his “Bush is moron” fable or his “moon worshiping” extravaganza The underlying suggestion of the Hananian Arabian Nights is that a fantastically precious Ray of Hope exists who, when he comes into contact with haters, Rons and others, actually changes them into Ray lovers. The Ray Hananian Arabian Fables are the magnificently powerful for their vulgarity rather than story. Krylov and La Fontaine, wait for me... here comes Hnooonia... There may not be any better examples in the world of Hnoooonia art of intimidation, trickery, Ray’s acrobatically magical craft that can swirl together and form a world that some ignorant readers like Irina (Scheherazade? No. Babushka) can get trapped in.

Here is the Hanania test. A Palestinian willing and able to live in peace with Zionists. Not a Zionist himself. A question: is there a Jew reading this, willing and able to at least try to reciprocate? That's the real question... everything else is noise. >>> Look your test is childish. Hanania was born in America, He doesn’t speak Arabic, so who he supposed to live in peace with? Jacky Mason? Irina you probably haven’t been to Israel, this is why you so out of touch...<<< I knew where your grandparents came from SK. Ron's, too. Whether you know it or not, your behavior is unmistakeably Russian as I am ashamed to admit. However, I expected you to be 1st or at most 2nd generation. This holier than thou attitude is usually more characteristic of neophytes. Americans with a longer history tend to be more even-handed in their love for their country. But what do I know, I live in Seattle. >>> Nobody trying to prove himself as the great patriot here. Since all you are interested is money, as you admitted. You also pointed out your double loyalty to mother Russia (#34) Why not to admit the obvious? Ego problems? Fer sure.<<< Ron wrote: <> You are giving yourself undue credit Ron. >>> Before you came in here I was discussing facts and you have never been able to combat the facts I have given. You just want to be right. Let me tell you Irina (since you claim to be Jewish... ) I will tell you a Jewish story. Sit down, relax, kick off your shoes, turn off your TV with all it’s stocks and Russian Mafia stories, get yourself a shot of vodka and listen for a change, Scheherazade.. One rabbi had received two Jews, who came each one separately from another village, who came to ask his advice. After the first told his story, the rabbi said: You are right!. Next day, after listening to another Jew and another story the rabbi said: You are right! After a while, the rabbi wife came out and said: Rabbi, why do those two Jews both right, when each one complaining about each other? The rabbi says: You are right too! So I say as this rabbi. You are right Scheherazade! Don't know what made you think otherwise, but this is the first time I am talking to you. And probably the last, unless you learn to talk less and refrain from openly racist remarks. >>>Yes, Sir I am going to sit down and listen to your wisdom, G-d save me from women, who try to imitate men. Racist remarks? racist, racist, racist this is what they sing, when there isn’t good answer, right Scheherazade? One reason I LOVE America is that this kind of racist talk won't get you anywhere in this country. You'll learn it pretty quickly...>>> Yes, teacher, what you can teach me I forgot in first grade...<<< What's your Russian name btw?>>> Ivan Ivanovitch Ivanov. OK? Just kidding... You can call me Ron, like Ronald (Reagan) Remember Доверя́й, но проверя́й? P.S. OK, quiz time. Send me if you know the answer. Fill up the missing word in this Russian proverb here... Дво́е дер́утся - тре́тий не ********

...just for the quiz, don't talk too mush, I am trying to save some space...

An old joke. A New Russian comes to an old Jew and says: "Dad, could you give me some money please?" A modern Russian writer Voinovich once wrote about an antiutopian society which extended a huge effort to collect what they termed "the secondary product", or sh*t, in layman terms. The intent was to win the Cold War by piping it into the West through a gas pipe. Your style of political debate is to throw the secondary product around, and you call this behavior manly and seem to think it scores you points. Ha sheela hi, ma ha Zioni ha gadol Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov ose be Arzot Habrit? Вопрос: а что великий сионист Иван Иванович Иванов делает в США? The question is, what is the great Zionist Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov doing in the USA? Debating you guys _is_, unfortunately ,necessary and needs to be done I am afraid. This is neither time nor place though. Not many people read this, and time is money... Got to go now; can't miss my work and let the Russian mafia starve. The neighbors are complaining about my bodyguards and their cadillaks blocking the street. My advice: watch less TV. Lift your bottom off that chair. Go serve in Tsahal. Do something. Get a life. You are a man, are not you?

I wrote: <>> A Zionist from LA wrote: << Look your test is childish. Hanania was born in America, He doesn’t speak Arabic, so who he supposed to live in peace with? Jacky Mason? >> You my precious, you. You were born in Russia and live in America. You don't speak Hebrew, or at least did not for most of your life I presume. You did not even have your present Israeli/American name. Our ancestors have not lived in Israel for about 2,000 years; yet, if there is something you and I agree upon, it's the notion that despite all that, we still get a rain check, a moral claim to our ancestral land. Ray is a Palestinian in diaspora, just like we are Jews in diaspora. Now, I presume, had he been living in Ramalla, you would have embraced him with open arms? If not, your point is mute. Please use formatting. And do talk less... seriously. More people will read you if you do.

Irina sez "I knew where your grandparents came from SK. Ron's, too. Whether you know it or not, your behavior is unmistakeably Russian as I am ashamed to admit. However, I expected you to be 1st or at most 2nd generation. This holier than thou attitude is usually more characteristic of neophytes. Americans with a longer history tend to be more even-handed in their love for their country. But what do I know, I live in Seattle." What do you know, Irini, living in Seattle? You don't know anything about the "rednecks" you scorn. How exactly has a first generation American like you become such an expert in acculteraton to American norms over the generations? I am third generation American (the second generation to have been born here). But I am like the overwhelming number of traditional immigrants who made the US their home. YOU, very clearly, are the exception, with your pretenses and airs. Some people with your attitude come to the US for schooling, bringing with them a really annoying ethnocentricity and lots of whining. Incidentally, I happen to know quite a lot about the American system of govenrment beause I am a political scientist focussing on this area. I find it highly unlikedly that you have personally experienced a better one. By all means, make your money here. Keep in mind, though, that anyone like you who says "America is albout trash-talking America and its people" has an extreme minority view, and frankly not a very appealing one.

SK, you are beginning to talk civilly, and so will I. Of course you are not a redneck. The truth is, you have a point. Seriously. Not having been born here, I have no moral right to lecture those who have what their country is supposed to be all about. Honor thy elders. Please accept my apology for that. You, on the other hand, knowing nothing about me, have no right to speculate that I am here for money. I'll leave Ron and his mafia accusations out of the scope for now, he is a clown; but same applies to him, too, of course. Want to know why I am here, in this country? Seriously, and I don't mean it in any inflammatory way - I feel at home here, in WA at least, because the per-capita ratio of people like yourself here is the lowest I've seen in any other country. That's the truth. Had I lived in Alabama, I would have probably hated America. I live in WA, and that's the place I call home.

SK said: "Some people with your attitude come to the US for schooling, bringing with them a really annoying ethnocentricity and lots of whining. " I would not throw stones if I was you SK. Americans are the only people I know who, while living abroad, actually call the locals "foreigners". Of course, there is a big difference. An ethnocentric American is a patriot; an ethnocentric foreigner is a .... towelhead?

An old joke. A New Russian comes to an old Jew and says: "Dad, could you give me some money please?" >>>Ha Ha Ha<<< A modern Russian writer Voinovich once wrote about an antiutopian society which extended a huge effort to collect what they termed "the secondary product", or sh*t, in layman terms. The intent was to win the Cold War by piping it into the West through a gas pipe. Your style of political debate is to throw the secondary product around, and you call this behavior manly and seem to think it scores you points. >>> you are all right, babushka...<<< Ha sheela hi, ma ha Zioni ha gadol Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov ose be Arzot Habrit? Вопрос: а что великий сионист Иван Иванович Иванов делает в США? The question is, what is the great Zionist Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov doing in the USA? >>> mnogo budesh znat, skoro sostarishsia, lama at metunenet? rotsa lehithaten itti?<<< Now in English: I like to dance salsa “ LA Style” Debating you guys _is_, unfortunately ,necessary and needs to be done I am afraid. >>> great debater, like you...<<>> money again... why are you so obsessed about money? Even your jokes are about money, dorogaia babushka... Got to go now; can't miss my work and let the Russian mafia starve. The neighbors are complaining about my bodyguards and their cadillaks blocking the street. >>> I have heard Cadillacs are out of style in Moscow, now it’s just Mers and BMW or may be LADA? My advice: watch less TV. Lift your bottom off that chair. Go serve in Tsahal. >>>Four years and couple more in reserves is not enough for you, babushka?<<< Do something. Get a life. You are a man, are not you?>>> I am not sure what you mean by being a man... I am definately in this category, dorogaia moia...<<< Do svidania, krasavitsa... http://fun.from.hell.pl/2003-02-18/volare-karaoke.swf

<>> A Zionist from LA wrote: << Look your test is childish. Hanania was born in America, He doesn’t speak Arabic, so who he supposed to live in peace with? Jacky Mason? >> You my precious, you.>>> Thanks, Irina, please more compliments, I am collector...<<< You were born in Russia and live in America. You don't speak Hebrew, or at least did not for most of your life I presume.>>>Are you sure? What this has to do with my opinions? Do I need to be accepted here? By you, the great debater? OK, OK, Sorry ,I don’t like to brag, but since you asking.. I speak both Hebrew and Russian on a native speaker level. Included culture and folklore.. It means War and Peace in Russian and Torah in Hebrew.<<< You did not even have your present Israeli/American name.>>> What’s wrong with Ron? Why I supposed to have a “ Russian name”? For example David Duke is an anti-Semite, but he has a name David, who was the most famous Jewish king..see?. Our ancestors have not lived in Israel for about 2,000 years>>> diz is NOT true, go to your Seattle library and grab a Jewish history book ( Johnson)...<<<; yet, if there is something you and I agree upon, it's the notion that despite all that, we still get a rain check, a moral claim to our ancestral land.>>> Not just moral, but physical too<<< Ray is a Palestinian in diaspora, just like we are Jews in diaspora. >>>Yes and No, details later...<<< Now, I presume, had he been living in Ramalla, you would have embraced him with open arms? If not, your point is mute. >>> You presume too much...enough for today<<< Please use formatting. And do talk less... seriously.>>> thanks for your advise, trying...<<< More people will read you if you do. >>>Thanks, precious<<<

SK, look here to understand our babushka better Vranyo, the Russian Fib >>>Russians can fudge the facts, a national characteristic called vranyo. In its most common form, it is an inability to face the facts, particularly when the facts do not reflect favourably on Russia. <<< >>>The zeal for the almighty dollar, or more accurately, less-than mighty ruble, is affecting everyone from the rich to the pensioner. Materialism has even roosted on Russian relationships<<< >>>The younger people are very open minded, well educated, and interested in new ideas. Many new things are happening politically, but "whatever happens," says George Kennan, " and whatever restructuring of the Soviet society, Russia is, and is going to remain a country very different from our own. We should not look for this difference to be overcome in any short space of time." <<< For additional information on Russian culture, see Yale Richmond's book, "From Nyet To Da, Understanding the Russians." Click for more info: http://www.goehner.com/russinfo.htm

Irina, you say "SK, you are beginning to talk civilly, and so will I." I assure you that my treatment of you has become neither more nor less civil. This shows my self-control, because, with each of your responses, I find you more irritating. Anyway, while you promised civility, clearly you have not delivered. "Seriously. Not having been born here, I have no moral right to lecture those who have what their country is supposed to be all about. Honor thy elders." The issue is not that you were born elswhere but that you have not made America your home. You left Russia--for whatever reason, and I am not willing to dismiss Ron's hypothesis--but you are still thoroughly Russian. This is why you only feel comfortable in Seattle, which is highly atypical of the US. In Seattle (and in Berekely and in a few other places in this country), people no doubt fawn over you, which you must find flattering. They think that with your accent and your foreign ways, you have wisdom. The amusing thing is that Americans like this are almost always staggeringly ignorant. Typically, they know almost nothing about their government or their culture, and they know even less about the cultures of Europe and Asia. More important, because of their ignorance, they look to Europe for guidance in political matters. This is hilarious because European countries have shown themselves to be models of bad government over the ages, only exceeded in badness by ... Russia, which must be the worst governed country in recorded history. Thus, when you, Irina the Russian, start blabbing about all of the bad qualities of the US, I have to snicker. You quote me SK said: "Some people with your attitude come to the US for schooling, bringing with them a really annoying ethnocentricity and lots of whining. " And reply: "Americans are the only people I know who, while living abroad, actually call the locals "foreigners". Of course, there is a big difference. An ethnocentric American is a patriot; an ethnocentric foreigner is a .... towelhead?" I seriously doubt that Americans living abroad refer to non-Americans as "foreigners." I think you're lying. If you're not lying, I should point out that Americans living abroad are, disproportionately, from places like Seattle. Real Americans live in America. I have traveled throughout Christendom. Everyone knows that the most obnoxious tourists are the British and the Germans. The Russians don't usually have the money to travel, but I am sure they would be worse still. Out of curiousity, Irina the Russian, what do you know of American high culture? What have you read? Could you tell me anything interesting about your adopted country? Finally, your comment that Ron is a clown is a hoot, as he is staggeringly smarter than you, Irina. His argument about the similarity between Arab and Russian cultures could not be more interesting, nonobvious, and subtle.