The entire outcry over yeshiva students avoiding the army is nothing new. In fact, I believe the Haredi Nahal is breath of fresh air to that community and is, apparently, gaining in numbers. No good will come of legal action forcing people to serve. On the contrary, it will encourage resistance and ultimately -possibly - mediocre soldiers. We cannot settle for mediocrity in Israel. The only way to encourage excellence is through better education, and MUCH BETTER dialogue with every part of this society. I find it hypocritical when I hear those that served as "jobnikim" criticizing Haredim for not serving. And the kibbutzim with their ever-disappointing military service participation in recent years, in great contrast to yesteryears when they were the finest. Wake up people. This is NOT the time for dissention and finger-pointing. All activities, whether legislative or sidewalk socialization should be directed to finding more common ground and solution (and sometimes compromise)- oriented. ZAHAL may not be a viable option for 100% of the population, but we should be at least striving to open its doors to a better percentage by positive - not punitive - legislaion.

Anyone who wars against Observant Jewry is warring against G-d and His Torah. One version of the V'Lamalsheenim prayer refering to those who will "be lost" reads "and all Your (G-d's) enemies" while another reads "and all the enemies of Your people". The commentaries say that this means the same thing: anyone who is an enemy of the Torah-loyal Jewish people is an enemy of G-d. It seems that the real motivation of the SC is to weaken and restrict the spread of Torah learning and practice among Jews in Eretz Yisroel. A "Jewish" state, indeed!

All fit and healthy young Israelis should be made by law to do military or national service. It is a disgrace that some are able to avoid serving their country while sitting in a yeshiva and receiving government handouts. Nevertheless, it seems reasonable that yeshiva students be allowed to defer military service for a year or so while they are concluding a section of their studies. The country also needs Torah scholars as they are the ones who uphold Jewish tradition.

what is Yossi beilin so worried about? Does the IDF really need hareidi boys who are physically unfit and have no secular education? Besides if the left gets its way why do we need an army, once we give away 99% of the country and the arabs will love us to death , we won't need an army.The IDF is not allowed to fight arabs , only to beat up settlers, and if there are no more settlers who needs an IDF? If the IDF is so desperate for manpower they can always go get Ehud Olmerts sons and daughter, Aviv Geffen, Dana International and of course let's not forget Shimon Peres who never spent a day in the IDF! What would can chareidim do in the army? be jobnik journalists like Ehud Olmert and Yossi Sarid?

It is a disgrace that a large group of people are exempted from any duty and constitute a great burden on society. They do not serve in the army, do not work, do not pay any taxes but they do get a nice allowance which comes eventually from my taxes. Young people who serve full army service in combat units are not entitled to even a fraction compared to what they get. I do agree that the most talented ones among them should be given the chance to keep studying (as it was initially meant to be by David Ben-Gurion who agreed to implement this program). Unfortunately, this practice has turned out to be the pretext for tens of thousands to live unproductive way of life on the tax payers' account.

Leeches, ALUKOT

What an absolute disgrace. And there's me thinking the judical system in this country needed only minor improvements. It really is totally unconstitutional and a slap in the face for Israeli society. Being a yeshiva student is just not a good enough excuse to serve the country they live.

religious or otherwise. There is something inherently morally wrong in you sitting at home tending your families or praying or studying the scriptures while others go to the front line and endanger their lives while fighting to protect yours and your homes. I have been in this situation three times in my life (wars ) and countless instances of reserve service in times of trouble for the State. My four children have also been in the same situation. I do not ask why my children and I, and not you, we shall always do it. I ask you why and where do you find the moral explanation and excuse for not fulfilling what I and most people understand to be a moral and National duty.

Changing the law would not be the solution to the issue. it is the whole education system. they need to be taught when they are young about the need to participate and be part of a larger society. soldiers are dying to protect them and enable them to live in Israel. this needs to be taught to them first so they understand the duty involved. only then can they grow into soldiers that would be able to contribute to the state.

we didnt ask for or make the state we were against it. now you want us to change the way we've been living for 2000 years because of your morally corrupt state? why should we be forced to go because the zionist decided to fight with the arabs forever? we were here before them and well be here after them

Yakov, your children and my children will grow up and know that they served their country (even though mine were not born here). They will walk proud and know that they did their part for our country. The Yeshiva students, neither respect or care about this country. They only slime their way out of national service and suck every shekel they can out the state Our children will always be so much better than them.

'it could become unconstitutional' it damn well IS, right now!!!!!

This is utter nonsense and you know it. This life style of yours is a very recent invention in Judaism. The Baal Shem Tov invented it around 250 years ago together with all the behavioural antics and the strange garb which have zero in common with the Judaism of our forefathers.

It's all right if you don't recognize the Zionist state. Don't go to the army, but why you are asking the Zionist state to support your financial needs while you give nothing in return. I am sick and tired of the fact that you have been living on my taxes. This money could be used for better purposes.

Telula, thems my sentiments exactly I couldn't have said it any better

You were here before the State but you still don't mind taking FROM the state now that it exists. Lots of child support, welfare, yeshiva stipendsd. Look at the gemorrah text a little closer and you will see how may esteemed rabbis also had a trade, while you are at it. Not that I would want your sorry wimps protecting my flanks, anyway!

Right on Ya'akov, although I dont think it was 'invented'...just something that came from the times and conditions. Regardless, even the Jews from way back when who were on a higher spiritual level that us to day (so the story goes) found the wherewithall between learning and following G-ds ways, to come out of the dessert and conquer the land of Israel that was their inheritence. Pious Jews doing a national and military duty. Maybe the Haredim have something to learn from Jewish history?

Let me get this straight: to oppose a child murderer and violent mob that destroys an Internet cafe is to oppose G-d? You have literally elevated the haridim to diefied status. That's the equivalent of idolotry. No, Reuven, opposing your definition of Torah loyal people (that's right - people, human beings) is not anti-Jewish. And military service and Torah Judaism are not mutually exclusive. Get the haridim off their asses and contribute to defending this land. (Look it up: G-d put this land into our hands).

You know, no-one is keeping you here. Why don't you just pack up your books and hats and sod off to New York to join all the others there? You see our society as morally corrupt? ha ha ha ha ha ha that's REALLY rich coming from you. You have no morals and no scruples and you try to cover up the disgusting deeds of a child murder by burning tires and smashing shops? I'm sure you have been to a place that is populated by prostitutes. But just if you haven't you may well want to go and see how many haredi/yeshiva sleaze balls actually do curb crawl around there. So, Penguin boy, step down from your high moral ground and get in touch with reality. It's not the secular community who is corrupt, it's you. You lazy good for nothing slob.

Another retarded decision from the retards on the High Court. The same geniuses who decided that "religious settlers" (only the best soldiers and officers in the entire army) should be penalized. My cousin, who is haredi, served in an IDF combat unit. There is a lot of energy in the haredi community. Let's channel it in a positive direction and then the leidig-geyers who can't learn a blatt gemara will have something to do other than trash internet cafes.

I have no problem wiyh haredi hesder units, but why is there no outcry that arabs don't serve? Are you afraid those loyal citizens will turn their guns on you?

Calm down Andy and listen carefully. No one is defending a "child murderer" (of course, the poor sap you are referring to hasn't as yet been convicted in a court, but what does that matter, you have. So much for the concept of being innocent before proven guilty.) Hareidim are NOT gods, G-d forbid. They are human beings like you and me. They want the same respect that you and I want without being picked on every five minutes. Military service and Torah Judaism are NOT mutually exclusive. Loshon Horah and Torah Judaism, however, are. I believe that everyone who can pull their weight and serve in the army must do so, just as I believe that every Jew must learn and observe Torah. If we demand that Hareidim serve in the army, we must, at the same time, demand that every "Chiloni" Jew learn and observe Torah, including full public observance of the Sabbath and Holidays. Start with that.

This whole Tal Law is a bunch of crap. There are more & more secular youth evading army service than Haredim. Why doesn't the press report this as well? As far as I am concerned, everyone should serve their country in one way or another, this includes all secular & Haredi youth. It is time the press tells the truth & stops Haredi bashing. As far as our MK's go, they are a bunch of incompetent idiots who love Haredi bashing.

Why aren't you in Yeshiva doing what my tax money is paying you to do, learning Gemorah. If your Rebbi knew you were surfing the net you would get the boot!

Whoa, friends, let's take the rhetoric down a notch. I can understand how frustrating and maddening it can be for proud Zionist Israelis to feel like they're supporting yeshiva students who seem to do nothing in return for the state that protects them and allows them the luxury of learning all day. I can also understand the viewpoint of the haredim who genuinely feel like they are doing the most crucial work of all by learning Torah all day. In their view, it is because of the study of Torah that Judaism and Eretz Israel exist. You know what? You're BOTH RIGHT! There is no contradiction between learning Torah and serving the nation. There are many religious Zionist units in the Israeli army, and they happen to be some of the finest soldiers and officers in the country! They do their part to serve their nation with distinction and pride. There is no reason Torah observant Jews can't contribute to the economic and security well-being of the state. The Haredim also happen to be right. In America, the only Jewish demographic that isn't disappearing due to assimilation and intermarriage are the orthodox. As much as secular Israelis like to think that their might and pioneering spirit are the backbone of Jewish life, the reality is that Judaism and Israel without Torah is doomed join the rest of the world's civilizations on the trash heap of history. Our deep bond to the Torah have allowed us to survive some of the worst onslaughts in history. It continues to do so today. This hatred between secular and religious Jews serves no purpose but to weaken the already strained bonds between us and the rest of the world. The Haredim need to accept that the secular state gives the security and wherewithal to do the important work of learning Torah. Haredim should acknowledge the sacrifices made on their behalf, and stop using Yeshiva learning as an excuse not to serve their country. Secular Jews should give the Haredim credit for their dedication to learning Torah and strengthening the soul of our people. They should also thank them for bringing so many Jewish souls into the world. If it were up to the secular Jews, their would be no democratic state of Israel because their birthrates are abysmally low! It takes all kinds of Jews to make Israel and the world a better place. We can all start by appreciating what "the other" has to offer to the big picture of our mutual survival!

B"H ... over to Israelis. If the Jewish institutions are slaves in the army to the Israeli government, then the government controls the Jewish religion, and this is a conversion campaign. The separation of religion from state in the army is fitting. The Democracy god without a bill of rights of religious freedom is a separate god as far as I can tell and it seems in many way related to idol worship to me. Undoing this law is something not even heard of in the slavery in Egypt. In Egypt, the Jewish and Egyptian priests were not enslaved, either by Pharoah or by Joseph. And even during the slavery, the Jewish priests also were not enslaved. I think that this development is good in that the court upheld the law, but it is bad in the reasoning the court is using implying that the law is on the verge of being overturned. There is no Third Temple, I see no Messiah to run the Temple services, and I cannot see a Jewish army being held over the Rabbis without direct rule by G-d.

Re: What about the secular who evade army. I don't care if the haredim don't serve in the army. But why should they get benefits from the government. They should go to work and support their families. At least the secular evaders do not get any such benefits and most of them are productive people. By the way, I can assure you that the vast majority of the haredim do not attend the yeshiva (at least not on regular basis) but rather use the yeshiva as the means to evade the army service.

I see you live far far away in Texas. Therefore you cannot possibly comprehend a situation thousands of miles away. Don't preach to people here. These people do NOTHING, NOTHING AT ALL for the State of Israel. They do not contribute jack-shit but they take and they take and they take. They make themselves hated because of their bigoted behaviour. You could not possibly understand what it must have felt like for families who have lost children in the IDF to see these filthy people desecrating the memory of their children on yom zicaron. So save your speeches for somone else. And if you really feel you have a future being an intermediate, then go and join the UN.

No, lets not start with that. Let's start with the fact that serving in the IDF is mandatory in Israel for every 18 year old, studying the Torah is not. And you can also stop preaching about them wanting respect, because as long as they are smashing up internet cafes, burning tires and descrating memories of fallen soldiers, and killing their babies, they won't get respect from anyone. You need to understand that it's not the torah that protects you, it's 18 year old soldiers. Who, at that age, should be out having fun, not trying to stay alive. You make me sick.

Thank you for all you have said here, whether to me personally or to the others. I am slightly less agressive than you but you are slowly giving me inspiration. I have nothing but utter contempt for these people who have no right to call themselves Jews, Israelis and as far as I am concerned no right to be any part of our society. To live in a country and a society and only take and not give is the epitome of immorality and most certainly not in keeping with any teachings in the Tanaach and one only has to read the book of Jehoshua, as I have done thousands of times in my life, to understand that in times of trouble unity is called for and EVERYONE has to play his part.