Pentagon denying Israelis security clearances
Published: 17.05.06, 21:53
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1. Just not a good mix, too much suspicion.
Shoshana ,   Boston   (05.17.06)
2. livelihoods just because they're Jewish
if they haven't noticed, we have a country other than Yanquiland
3. Why Alyiah is important for the US
Steve ,   USA   (05.17.06)
B"H In this manner, "active" Jews can be more readily identified and punished for their religious beliefs contrary to their Consitutional Rights. The key step the United Sates needs is that Jews are not permitted non-resident status in Israel, but must rather "make Alyiah", in other words bow down to a foreign state and risk their United States citizen rights. Then all sorts of moves are justified, including not offering security clearance and so forth. This can bar employment from those who require previous clearance also to obtain a job as a condition of employment when it is the government's burden to clear. No one can realistically afford a court petition unless one is very rich. This is the United States's implementation of the camp of the holy temple. Those without clearance are placed outside the camp. Those with clearance are allowed in. The high priests are definately cleared in one fashion or anohter. On the other hand, I am quite cheerful without the clearance and I am not looking to obtain one. I have no desire to share government secrets. G-d's secrets are plenty enough a share for me! And I am not playing into this game by making Alyiah even though I probably bear a great deal of its consequences in any case, but these consequences are not entirely negative and I am still happy with the life I lead outside of that "insider" camp.
4. #1 and #2
Ed ,   Pittsburgh, USA   (05.17.06)
...I don't know if this is true or not....but even if least in the U.S. nobody is being thrown out of their home, their community, or their grave, just because they are Jewish...something that happens with some regularity now in Israel...the land of the Israelis not the Jews as we now know from A.B. Yehoshua and others....
6. Been going on for years
Sam Weinstein ,   USA   (05.17.06)
This is not the first case reported in the news. Unfortunely anti jewish attitude has been going on for years even before the aipac scandle.
7. 'Dual-citizenship' bad idea
Ellen Prescott ,   Southsea, Hampshire   (05.17.06)
Choose the country to which your loyalties reside
8. ??
Arie   (05.17.06)
What about those that hold dual citizenshiops with Italy, Germany, England, and so on. Will all be denied - or is this just about Jews? And will the Mossad now begin to second guess who it cooperates with since being Jewish is again becoming grounds for 2nd class citizenship
9. #7
Sam Weinstein ,   USA   (05.17.06)
The point of the article was that it may not be just because of dual citizenship but religon.
10. Book
Bill X ,   USA   (05.17.06)
See page 187 The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence copyright 1974 and 1980
11. Absurd, especially because the US is penetrated by spies
sk ,   USA   (05.17.06)
Let's be fair: the US has crummy human intelligence and especially crummy counterespionage capabilities. If Israel is spying on the US, the US would be the last to know. Note those millions of Chinese who come here every year and spy on us. THAT is a deadly serious problem.
12. US spies on Israel, I was an NSA analyist years ago.
Bunnie Meyer ,   Santa Monica, CA   (05.17.06)
13. It is about time
Wise Man ,   USA   (05.17.06)
Finally the USA recognize that jews are loyal to one thing and one thing only "Israel". The history is full of examples
14. To Ellen #7
Plaintalk ,   Brooklyn, NY   (05.17.06)
Here you again with your fuzzy thinking. I thought that you had learned something with the previous thread about the IDF attack on the Palestinian assassins. The man needs his Israeli passport to get back to Israel to visit family, because he's born there and can not renounce his place of birth. He has chosen to be an American citizen, carries an American passport for all travel to places other than Israel, and should have the same presumption of loyalty as anyone else who is a naturalized citizen. Anyhow, what expertise do you, as a resident of the U.K., have to suggest that someone holding both U.S. and Israeli passports can not be loyal to both the country of his birth and the country of his choice?
15. Re #13: Loyal to Israeli Government?
Steve ,   USA   (05.18.06)
B"H I do not feel loyal at all to the Israeli government. If there is an example, it is all the Jews that for the most part are in excile and do not adhere to that government at all in terms of blind faith to it. Why should I suck up to some foreign guy in Israel who is intent on making Jewish life miserable for those living outside of his fence? I am not loyal at all to the Israeli government and such moves as these. In fact, I probably see the dangers of the Israeli government influence more clearly because I am familiar with their good side and bad side. But I am definately not loyal to the Arab State butchers either, as it seems so much of the press is. I believe in one nation, under G-d, and not one god made to be subservient to some national secularism.
16. The Dual Loyalty Canard - Strings Pulled From The Top
Adina Kutnicki ,   US   (05.18.06)
The Pentagon has always been hostile to Israel. No surprises here. However, the entire pseudo case against the AIPAC officials smells like dead fish. These officials did no more than any lobbyist or journalist in the US does on a regular basis. In addition, they were clearly entrapped by the FBI to look guilty! There is a witch hunt going on in the US and people should understand why . The Arab foreign lobby, led by the Saudis and the UAE is humongous. They are trying every which way to strip pro Israel people of any influence. While the Saudis who engineered the biggest terror attacks on US soil since Pearl Harbor are allowed unfettered access to top security, (read "Infiltration" by Paul Sperry for an eyeful) and their citizens are being granted unprecedented amounts of visas only 5 years after 9/11/01, one begins to see a pattern. Israel has no oil, and the Saudis/Arabs do. That is why the "Secret War Against the Jews" (as described in gory detail by John Loftus in his thoroughly documented book, since he had the highest security clearance for access to these facts) continues unabated since before WW1. Has anyone noticed that only the 'yes men' Jews are allowed in the inner sanctums of Presidential power circles?
17. It is not because ...
Wise Man ,   USA   (05.18.06)
you are jews. it is because you are a spy and treator.Stop complaining and if you do not like the USA please move to Israel.
18. #17
Jane   (05.18.06)
Speaking of "treator", you and yours, in Dearborn and elsewhere, love the US because it unknowingly facilitates for fundraising activities for terror groups. Not only that, you're hoping that the US will be part of the big fat caliphate that you're planning for everyone. Actually, you're a standup comic as well. You say that if Jews don't like the US, they should move to Israel. Then you say that that Israel is an illegal entity. Then you say that Israel should be wiped off the face of the map. Then you say that you don't hate Jews, only Israel. You are one piece of work. You and all your Islamofacist brothers.
19. Ok no Chinese Americans in Secure Jobs
Sam Weinstein ,   USA   (05.18.06)
A Taiwanese citizen was arrested for arm smuggling today dealing with China. Ok so no more Chinese in secure jobs in the US goverment what is good for us is good for them
20. Re #17, if you do not like it move...
Steve ,   USA   (05.18.06)
B"H NO. I do not need to move if I do not like something someone is doing in the USA. I have citizenship and the right and obligation to peacefully protest things I do not accept in the most effective manner possible. The "Wise Guy" #17 is a perfect example of the Arab attitude towards Jews that is not acceptable. It is not that if I do not like it, I move. It is if I do not like it, I get it resolved and corrected if it is wrong. Wise guy, I am not moving on your account anywhere. If you act this obnoxious to those living close by, tell your citizen neighbors to move and see how they put you in your place!
Arik Silverman ,   Milwaukee USA   (05.18.06)
Not many Americans know that Ari Fleisher, chief American spokesperson in Bush's first years, is and was an Israeli Citizen. Just as Americans get upset about our national anthem in Spanish, so they can get upset about dual citizenship in certain positions.
22. very good
benjie ,   new york, ny   (05.18.06)
this is a very good policy. I wish they also apply it to politicians and lobbys. we could have saved 2400 of our boys in iraq.
23. Treator?
Mar ,   Vancouver Canada   (05.18.06)
Is that anything like a traitor?
24. Israel is no threat to the United States
Who gives a sh*t if they are spying!
25. Who is behind this?
Brod ,   USA   (05.18.06)
It is time to check who is behind this manipulation? You may discover Islamist-Jihadist elements and Roman Catholics in key positions manipulating the departments into discriminating Jews. These elements may well be influencing policy in the wrong direction. They media should scrutinize and expose them.
26. Security clearance & dual citizenship
howard ,   pacific coast, usa   (05.18.06)
There was NOTHING in the article about all Jewish people being routinely denied security clearance. Regarding Israeli dual citizens: US security clearance is NOT a right. It is a privilege that is granted when needed based on trust that a person will not divulge secrets to outside parties. A US dual citizen may behave in 3 ways: 1. be ultimately loyal to the USA; other citizenship is a convenience 2. be ultimately loyal to the other country 3. decide on a case-by-case basis When there is no sign of attempts by the other country to gather classified information in the area in which the person is working, then some level of security clearance may be granted despite #3. But it would certainly be a bad idea for anyone to grant security clearance in cases #2 or #3 and allow the person to work in an area in which his external loyalties incent him to betray the secrets that he learns. It is very hard to distinguish between #1 and #3. The fact that a person elects to hold dual citizenship can be construed to imply #3. So why might a US-Thai dual citizen receive clearance, and a US-Israeli be denied? Although Israel is a strong ally of the US, it does collect intelligence in the US, and the US objects to that. So despite the strong friendship between the US and Israel, Israel's active intelligence operations imply that Israeli dual citizens could be a greater potential security risk than, say, Thai dual nationals. If Thailand or Denmark were actively gathering defense intelligence info in the US, their dual citizens would almost certainly receive similar negative treatment. Every country needs to be careful about spying on its friends, because such activities have unwanted consequences for itself and for its people, when it gets caught. In general, US-Israeli dual nationals are probably more #1 than #3. But it's hard to judge without knowing the person very well, and security screeners find it easier to make "conservative" judgments. Security clearance is a matter of probabilities and risk assessments. Jewish Americans, who were NOT mentioned in the article, choose to be US citizens. Most Jewish Americans, while we support Israel strongly, are extremely loyal to the USA, and the fact that an American is Jewish should not impact US security clearance.
27. Cloak and Dagger
Josh ,   Atlanta   (05.18.06)
Call me crazy, but this sounds an awful lot like counter intelligence. The US willingly passes top secret information to Israeli agents. The US wants to appear to be "an honest broker" to the rest of the world, so for show, we "arrest the spies and disallow dual Israeli-US citizens into the inner intelligence circle." That part makes it to the headlines. Then, behind the scenes, the US continues to pass to Israel the crucial intelligence that it needs to conduct its own operations. Perhaps that's the case, I don't know. I hope so in this case. I'm personally tired of it, though. I want the US to treat Israel like a full fledged ally. I think God has drawn a line in the sand, and the US is still trying to straddle the fence. It makes me sick. Be hot or cold, black or white, we might not win, but at least we'll find out who our true friends are.
28. Dont believe the story. Just lies!
naro ,   nyc   (05.18.06)
Dont believe ANYTHING you read in newspapers. The truth is usually just the opposite. Enough said!
29. Does Israel give security clearance...?
Inyaki ,   Bilbao   (05.18.06)
Does Israeli defence establishment give security clearances to persons with double nationality? They ask you to renounce some European nationalities ( Dutch, for example) before you enter the officer school. I do not know of US citizenship. Of course, if it is Bibi Netaniahu, he can have both, the top clearance and his US citizenship (frozen). Can somebody explain, how did Bibi frozen his US citizenship.?
30. #6
mike ,   jacksonville, florid   (05.18.06)
It seems obvious as an American that we should be careful of young Arab men around our airplanes and be careful of folks with ties to Israel around our classified material.
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