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Convergence refusers write letter to Olmert
Ronny Shaked
Published: 21.05.06, 10:57
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1. 200... it's a start
Gadi   (05.21.06)
Kol Hakavod to all those who signed! Let's hope that many more follow the moral path you set for them.
2. Refusal
jerry ,   USA   (05.21.06)
This letter is precisely what Olmert wants. If he wanted peace for the Jews, he would prepare homes for them before the eviction. He wishes rather to disrupt the family life of the most prolific and family oriented portion of the population, the portion of the population that threatens the hegamony of the secular underpinnings of his thinking. Another ten years of stable family life and he and his ilk are done. Convergence as it is now formulated is to save the left whose reproductive rate parallels Europeans. That is what will destroy the Jewish state.
3. Very good!
keren ,   sao paulo   (05.21.06)
The whole world is saying this plan is a failure;it is more than clear it is a failure,and this Olmert yet wants to keep on in such a big and irresponsible and insane mistake?? I am glad Israel is going against this total madness,keeping their Principles and their Will! B'H!
4. #2 Awesome, we're against ethnic cleansing
gabriela ben ari ,   jerusalem   (05.21.06)
WEll done for the 200, as gadi said, just the beginning!
5. And These Will Be Israel's Most Motivated Combat Soldiers
Yishai Kohen ,   YeShA, Israel   (05.21.06)
AND officers. The IDF is to PROTECT Jews.
6. #5. you are racist!
shai ,   T-A   (05.21.06)
The army is to defend all the israeli citizens, whatever is their denomination! the army is to implement the ordres of the gouvernement of the state of israel. Any other behaviour would be contrary to the democratic and jewish status of our country : democratic because no democracy without a state of law, jewish because all human beings should be defended.
7. Shai: It Isn't About Race
Yishai Kohen ,   YeShA, Israel   (05.21.06)
The IDF flew all the way to Entebbee, Uganda to rescue Jews. Was that racist? The IAF flew tens of thousands of Ethiopian Jews- not yet Israeli citizens, to safety in Israel. Was that racist? The fact is that the IDF's role is to defend Jews and the Jewish state- and everyone else who lives in the Jewish state. The fact is that the IDF's role is NOT to ethnically cleanse Jews- which WOULD be racist.
8. Face reality
Michael ,   Tel Aviv   (05.21.06)
Israel is a democracy. the mojority of voters are in favor of the Convergence plan. That's it! No matter how many more signatures you collect.
9. but they have no problem uprooting arab families !
john   (05.21.06)
10. Idiots !!
Secular Sabra ,   Israel   (05.21.06)
"" “We really want to join the army, but we can’t carry out tasks that damage the IDF’s and its soldiers’ morals. A commander cannot find integrity in this order. It is a defeatist order. I would prefer to sit in jail and not perform a task that goes against my principles,” he said. "" The above is how the Leftists and Seculars feel about serving in occupied land and oppressing another people so that the religious messianics can have their "Greater Israel." Okay boys , we can now refuse to serve to . If it's okay for you to refuse then it's okay for us to refuse . Time we wrote a letter to Olmert :o) Lets all refuse ....... then where would we be ??? I say it again .... IDIOTS !!!!
11. To #10
Mad Zionist   (05.21.06)
Leftist and seculars who feel Judea is occupied land need to think outside of your marxist, self-loathing boxes. Reverse your insane interperetation of Judea, think of it as Jewish land not moslem property, and think of the "Palestinian" vermin as illegal squatters. Laws of rogef should be applied to "Plaestinans", and they must be expelled as such. http://www.madzionist.blogspot.com/
12. Ooops! Meant RODEF not ROGEF
Mad Zionist   (05.21.06)
13. Don't let them enlist
Karenh R ,   Maryland   (05.21.06)
This is ridiculous. They want to serve, but only carry out the orders they approve of? In any other army "refusers" are mutineers, court-martialed, jailed (or in time of war, shot). Who are these kids who want to dictate to the whole country what the democratically elected government can or cannot do? They don't want to serve the country, only the interests of their own political faction and their own communities' interests. Don't let them enlist - it makes a mockery of all those loyal soldiers who do serve selflessly for the good of the whole country.
14. FINALLY!!Awake consciousness
Svetka R. ,   Eli-shomron   (05.21.06)
If only our soldiers had the balls to refuse those orders BEFORE.But i guess better late then never.And before all u idiots like #6 and #10 go flying off-- i m a captain in IDF,SECULAR, a SETTLER and A CHICK!!-and i call to ALL soldiers to refuse obeying orders that go against their MORALS. The Left decided that "Peace" is the highest moral obligation(ereh eliyon)--why did the religious zionists decide that obeying orders is the highest moral obligation-especially if that order goes against EVERYTHING u were brought up on? I call on all religious zionists to follow their consciousness and upbringing and refuse to obey the order to turn Jews into refugees.And i call on all secular Jews in the army to gather up their balls and follow their gut which is telling them that this order was the most UNETHICAL order ever given in IDF. I will come and visit all of u in jail, send u bamba--and if needs to be-sit there with u for as long as it takes.
15. Learn the Reality #8
Chaim ,   Jerusalem   (05.21.06)
A majority of voters did NOT vote for convergence. It seems that you really do not understand parliamentary politics. Kadima received the most votes of any party, but nowhere near a majority of voters! Remember, they received only 28 seats out of 120. That's less than 25% of the voters!!!!
16. #10. Nazi was also democratilly elected
s ,   shomron   (05.21.06)
That means german soldiers shouldn't have opposed ethnical cleansing? 200 to begin with and MUCH MORE TO FOLLOW
17. Brats
Talula ,   Israel   (05.21.06)
So don't join the army, go and do something else. The IDF don't need jumped up little big mouths like you. What a bunch of idiots. They make me laugh. Just pack up and get the fuck out!!!
18. Re #6. Its about Race
Steve ,   USA   (05.21.06)
B"H Jehuda was booted out of Gaza because of race, to either enslave or employ him under the other 11 tribes. That was "disengagement", an Excile of Judah from his land to serve under his brothers as slaves. Now the 11 other tribes are feeling the price of enslaving their brother like Joseph was not the only one to feel the price. But this action was supported also by a world that is feeling the price increase quite literally, and through that action is enslaving itself also, like the Egyptians enslaved themselves through enslaving Joseph. It is about Race. It is about brothers who are Jealous of each other, and about others who wish to murder the Jewish people. Not so glamourous but true. And democracy has nothing to do with it.
19. to number 17
Drew ,   soon in Israel   (05.21.06)
I'm making aliyah and being drafted this year. I want to serve, and I will not pull people out of their homes. This is not a contradictory idea to zionism or being Jewish. If you tell me to get out, you're just as guilty of sinat chinam and ethnic cleansing- arguing that Jews should have to leave because you don't agree with them. Even though there are horrible people like you in Israel, I'm still coming to help build up OUR country and make the dream of living in Israel (whatever the borders will be) a possiblity for more Jews who want to come, regardless of whether or not YOU want them.
20. Talula, cupcake, I'm sure you can take their place.
sk ,   USA   (05.21.06)
21. Refusing immoral orders is not enough, alas.
sk ,   USA   (05.21.06)
Feiglin points out that when Orange Israelis serve in any capacity in the IDF they kosher expulsions (see link). So, it may be that opposing specific immoral orders is not enough. http://jewishisrael.org/news/ud66/ud_6627.htm Right now, what you have is a game of chicken. The IDF brass knows that it can't do without the settler military forces, so it says that all of Israel will be vulnerable with widespread refusal. But this game is threat-vulnerable, meaning, if Orange Israel credibly shows that, in 4 months, the IDF will lose 30-40% of its combat troops & officers, it will be Merlot who will have to back down. Start building credibility, and there will be no need for many actual refusals to enlist. In fact, if you can get 10% complete refusals to serve and 20% refusals of orders to expel Jews, the government would likely fall. Note that the mere mention of specific order refusal drives people like the sex pot Talula and the French zombie Secular Sabra wild.
22. # 19 Drew
yakov shani ,   IL.   (05.21.06)
If I was holding a flat map of the world in my hand and placing myself I would be falling off Kamchatka, capish ? But my friend when you wear uniform democracy ends abruptly, I know it is a shock. Think about it before you come and take obligations upon yourself. That is what Telula meant. Please do not try to lecture me on our rights and history etc. and on what Judea and Samaria mean to us. I was there before any of the settlers and I know all about it.
23. Shai T-A, Abu Steiner, Secular Sabra: answer the QUESTION
sk ,   USA   (05.21.06)
You know which one - from Yoel Ariel.
24. #17 Make up your mind, silly goose
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (05.21.06)
Kick the religious of the army Drag them in kicking and screaming. Kick the religious out of the army. Drag them in kicking and screaming. Well, which is it? Make up your mind, you can't have it both ways. Oh and, wash out your filthy mouth with Sano.
25. # 24 Kyle
yakov shani ,   IL.   (05.21.06)
She wants to kick then into the army and also to kick them into line. I am nobody's wimp but in uniform I serve my country, I salute officers and I respect them and I even shake their hand and above all I do as I am told by my superiors because armies and democracies do not work any other way. How would you like a Central or South American scenario in Colorado. We certainly do not want one here.
26. yakov, about kicking into line
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (05.21.06)
Yakov I didn't see any comments by you or the silly goose about the entire IAF troop who gang raped a minor. It seems there is much more urgent kicking into line that is needed beyond one outstanding soldier who failed to shake hands (not required by protocol) but saluted (required by protocol) while accepting a medal for distinguished conduct. Loudly condemning the latter while remaining silent about the former shows you really don't care about "kicking into line" but just pounding the crap out of people who don't think the way you do.
27. yakov
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (05.22.06)
I just saw your comment about the IAF child rapists. Ha ha, you made a joke about it! What a funny guy you are, just like Ray Hanania. Putz.
28. # 26 Kyle
yakov shani ,   IL.   (05.22.06)
My post in re IAF soldiers in the "under the table " was posted before I read your # 26 here. They do not have to be kicked into line but rather kicked into jail, long time. Apologies please, but no hard feelings from me.
29. civil disobedience is honorable ifyou accept the consequence
motti   (05.22.06)
"I would prefer to sit in jail and not perform a task that goes against my principles". This would be an acceptable moral position for both the right and the left if taken before induction into the IDF... entering the IDF and selectively obeying and disobeying orders is the slippery slope of juntaism Mr. Shani warns against.
30. # 27 Kyle
yakov shsni ,   IL.   (05.22.06)
There seems I can do nothing to please you. It was not meant as a joke, I was deadly serious, please refer to my # 28 here and also please go to the Yiddish language post. I assure you that I am a very well balanced person, it is just you who read me wrong. I know when to be serious, sarcastic, cynical and facetious. Each in its own time and place.
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