Jewish Scene
Trying to keep Israel Jewish
Reuters
Published: 21.05.06, 10:54
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31 Talkbacks for this article
1. Kol hakovod to the Efrat pro-life organization!
Jerusalem,Israel   (05.21.06)
You have saved countless jewish lives thru your dedication and guidance! Keep up the outstanding work and keep on saving more jewish babies!
2. Disgusting
Stella ,   Haifa   (05.21.06)
Just what the world needs - more unwanted children using up the world's resources. But I guess that's OK because they're Jewish. And it's nice to know that the price of a Jewish life is $1000. What a bargain.
3. disgusting is offensive
Louis ,   Balt, USA   (05.21.06)
What a negative way of respondin to the article (disgusting). The children are wanted. What a blessing that people are not forced for economic reasons (desparation) to destroy a life. The child's life is priceless and to think that for lack of $1,000 this priceless oppurtunity would have been destroyed. Is it not worth funds to save a life and family?
4. abortion
dana ,   ny   (05.21.06)
Not to imply any bias , but the preferred term is pro life. Also the rate is very low among religious an traditional Jews, but high among pre-yerida hilonim.
5. Disgusting
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (05.21.06)
"Stella" you are disgusting. "Kill the useless eaters." Where have we heard that before, hmm?
6. Urging Israeli women to keep their children..
Connie ,   USA   (05.21.06)
"A voice was heard in Ramah, Lamentation and bitter weeping, Rachel weeping for her children, Refusing to be comforted for her children, Because they are no more." That's what comes to my mind when I read this. If giving the expectant mother money for her to keep her child, so be it. Their worth that and more
7. To Dana
Maya ,   Ramat Hasharon   (05.21.06)
"Pre-yerida hilonim" gives away a lot more of your bias than saying "pro-life". And they're probably "pre-yerida" because they're trying to get away from religious do-gooders who seem to believe they have a right to tell people how to live their lives, what to eat, when to have public transport, when to be able to go to the supermarkets, when to get married etc.
8. Anti-Abortions
Michelle ,   USA   (05.22.06)
I can understand the hardship that women might face having an unplanned pregnancy, but then I think of the miracle of life. Truely amazing and it's really nice for someone to help them.
9. Disgusting
Josh ,   Atlanta   (05.22.06)
What else are people going to do with the world's resources if not use them? Leftists love to scream "preserve resources!!" Which resources should be preserved? To what end? What good is a preserved resource if people die or are kept in poverty due to its lack of use? Just exactly which resources are in such scarcity that these babies should not be allowed to live? Please don't tell me "there is a global food shortage" because that's not true. What exists is in fact a shortage of infrastructure in underdeveloped countries that prevents large shipments of food and goods from being shipped rapidly to remote consumers. Other factors which prevent some people from getting nutrition that they need include warfare, dictatorship, and/or the occasional local famine. Please note that in none of these scenarios do we find the birth of babies to be the cause of starvation or lack of resources. Perhaps you meant a resource other than food. Regardless, I think everyone should be at least given a chance at life. If you think the world is too overpopulated, you should stop being a hypocrite. Become a part of the solution, and quit whining. The first step to proactively fight overpopulation for everyone who thinks that overpopulation to be a global crisis should be for you to kill yourself, and do it as soon as possible. Please hurry, you're using up so much of our resources.
10. maya and stella
Reuel ,   modiin   (05.22.06)
maya - good luck on the occassion of your yerida - your children will marry gentiles and your granchildren will not be jewish - yordim have a higher intermarriage rate than fourth generation reform jews stella - why don't you tell you palestinians to lower their birth rate which is 5 times higher than the jewish birth rate - because if you did they would _____ you
11. This should be govt.supported
jason white ,   afula,israel   (05.22.06)
Every Jewish woman should receive this from low class to middle class economical households.
12. Stella
Preggie girl ,   Jerusalem   (05.22.06)
Stella, dont you tell me what disgusting is?! Disgusting is Israeli doctors telling me to do an amniocentisis and abort my child if it were to have downs. Scans show the baby is apparently fine but nice to know the healthy attitude to children in Israel. and moreover if you aren't ready for children keep your knickers on. An unwanted child is wanted enough by all the couples suffering from infertility.
13. Keep Israel Jewish
cherif ,   cairo, egypt   (05.22.06)
This article gave me shivers. The state of Israel was built on innocent bloodshed, land deprivation and now on the asphixy of Palestinians. Regardless of religion, no people have the right to put others in ghettos. The jews should know better and it is intriguing to see how Israelis forgot that. I am honestly sure it was a horrible experience for all Holocaust victims and survivors, but Israel would have never existed without the British and overall European intervention so Israelis should work much more on how to be better "neighbours", show compassion to Arab Muslims who are the ones suffering from the Israeli presence and from whom thier lands were illegaly grabbed by force. Imagine yourselves sitting in your own home and then some people come and force you to stay in the bathroom without ever going out of it without permission and when you try to, even by force, you are named a "terrorist"o r simply killed!!!! What logic, religion or ideology justifies this?? About the suicide bombers, do you really think it is that easy to come to such conclusions such as blowing themselves out? Don't you think that these people must have life dreams of their own, families etc.? Stop the global manipulation that portrays Muslims as evil while they are the ones who lost their lands! While most terrorist acts have nothing to do with Islam, as Islam never incites for violence let alone killing another soul including one's own, Palestinians so-called "terrorists" are left with no weapon what so ever except those acts! I am of course also mourning the loss of Israeli lives, but please try and put yourselves in the minds of the Palestinians who have absolutely no hope! That's what Israel should be thinking about and not of its demographic problems. Be fair!!!!!
14. That's why governors in Israel...
keren ,   sao paulo   (05.22.06)
...shall already start thinking seriously in ending occupation by expelling arabs from Jewish lands. A conscient govern will do this,instead of expelling Jews. What a huge no sense is happening in Israel! The least I can say is actual governors are big cowards!
15. #13 Know-it-all... NOT
Ach Tov ,   Baltimore, USA   (05.22.06)
"The state of Israel was built on innocent bloodshed, land deprivation and now on the asphixy of Palestinians" - Territory won in a war started by the other side. How do you think America has so much land? Oh, maybe taking it from the Indians and Mexicans is okay, cuz we killed them ALL.. "it was a horrible experience for all Holocaust victims and survivors, but Israel would have never existed without the British and overall European intervention" - Anyone who knows ANYTHING about history will see that European countries AND America stood by thoroughout the Holocaust, if not helped it along. To make an official Jewish State does not begin to pay up these debts. "Imagine yourselves sitting in your own home and then some people come and force you to stay in the bathroom without ever going out of it without permission and when you try to, even by force, you are named a "terrorist" " - no, they're labeled terrorists because they comply with the dictionary definition of the word: 'somebody who uses violence or the threat of violence, especially bombing, kidnapping, and assassination, to intimidate, often for political purpose' If killing innocent cicilians is not a terrorist act, even assuming the government is illegal, then there's no such thing as a terrorist in the world. "Stop the global manipulation that portrays Muslims as evil while they are the ones who lost their lands" - we're talking about Palestinians here; not Muslims. Countries with a majority of Muslims take up almost half of the world. "Palestinians so-called "terrorists" are left with no weapon what so ever except those acts" - Finding the most crowded civilian area to blow up men, women, children and the elderly indiscriminately is weapon?! I say your values are a bit skewed!!!
16. Demographics and ethnic superiority
Rustum ,   London, UK   (05.22.06)
So Efrat saves Jewish children from being aborted. One could call them pro-Life, but they could also be called "anti-Arab" and bigots. The pathetic term "demographic imperative" comes into play here - the all important Jewish/non-Jewish proportion within whatever borders Israel decides to define. The immensely sad fact That "demographics" play a part in Israel's politics is a sign of a much deeper problem. That problem is typified by the selective saving of Jewish children with the aim of improving the ethnic distribution of Jewish Israelis. That this abhorrent term "demographics" should be part of the daily discourse with regard to Israel simply shows that the state is based on race, through and through, from cradle to grave.
17. Keren from Sao Paulo
Rustum ,   London, UK   (05.22.06)
What a sad mail you wrote. In fact, you are wrong. The rulers of Israel are not "big cowards" by dint of their not having expelled all non-Jews from "Jewish lands". They obviously do not wish to behave, as you wish them to - as Nazi thugs. The time for population expulsions has long passed - it is simply not an acceptable concept in the 21st century. What is sad, and sick, is that so many people writing to these forums actually believe that expulsion, ethnic cleansing, racial humiliation, prejudice, incitement to hatred - are all valid tools in the hands of the "yishuv". The stinking medievalism of many right-wing supporters of the Zionist "dream" has a foul odour.
18. Rustum 17
keren ,   sao paulo   (05.22.06)
I shouldn't answer you because I really don't sympatize with your soul(if you may know what is that,or if you have that),and would not stand with your foul odour as well-copying your own low words-,but...I will make an effort . Today,I read Montenegro is separeting from Serbia...This is just an exemple of a 21th century tendence:people want to be and to live among their owns.This is not "stinking "medievalism,let alone ethnic cleasing. And I would like to remember you that we Jews were ethnic cleansed many times throughout history,so don't come to me with your rotten and disgusting conversation about how we should behave.We know how we should behave and it is EXACTLY the way we should , we WILL ,sooner or later,even if antisemits like you will have your stomachs ulcered for that. You envier and insignificant one!Put yourself in your right place,and don't come here intenting to lecture anyone of us!
19. Rustum; are the most racist and intolerant people!
Daisy ,   USA   (05.23.06)
I'm not Jewish and don't think there's anything wrong with Jews wanting to preserve or add to their population in their homeland. I always find it amazing how people with you views will never criticize the Arabs for being true racists. How many Jews live freely in Arab countries? Very few because most of them were killed or thrown out. I don't think there's anything wrong with departing a people who are hostile and support mass murder like the Arabs do against the Jews.
20. Keren 18
Rustum ,   London, UK   (05.23.06)
I can't remember the last time Jews were ethnically cleansed in Sao Paulo. Plus it seems like you are evincing enormous cowardice and tremendous fascist tendencies by calling, from a haven thousands of miles away, for the expulsion of the non-Jewish population of Palestine. Now the facile canard of anti-semitism which you throw out is truly obscene, when I am the person talking about co-existence and YOU gevirti are the person calling for ethnic cleansing and expulsion. It seems that you have managed to twist your hatreds into a mirror of dirty soot, so nothing is clear to you any more. As for my disgusting conversation about how you shoudl behave, my conversation was about how you should not behave, and how you and the people you support can keep yourself out of the international court at the Hague for having yet more innocent bystanders in a conflict which has already seen enough expulsions, bulldozing, eradicating of the past and killings. It is strange, that whenever one mentions issues like tolerance and co-existence, extremists like you have no answer but to scream "anti-semitism" and to interpret words about human rights and equality as an attach on your existence and upon your perverted vision of Jewish history.
21. rustum idiot
keren ,   sao paulo   (05.23.06)
take care of your life in london and do not direct to me anymore! Ynet,please ,do not publish anymore messages from this "thing" which are directed to me.
22. If there hadn't been pogroms and the Shoah
Chaya ,   Bat Yam   (05.23.06)
Jews - both in Israel and in the Diaspora - would be millions more. Every nation has the right - NO - the obligation - to see to it that at least replacement takes place. Here in Israel, most families have more than two children. Jews in the U.S. aren't even replacing themselves. They are going through negative population growth. The same thing is happening in Russia. The majority of these women consent to an abortion ONLY because of economic reasons. If they get help they want to give birth. I beileve - but can't be sure - that Israel is the only counry to give free IVF to women for their first two children.
23. Daisy's doodle
Rustum ,   London, UK   (05.23.06)
You said " I don't think there's anything wrong with departing a people who are hostile and support mass murder ". Alright, then put them on trial individually if you can work out a law which forbids people from being "hostile" - I'm sure the lawyers or your ex-president would have a field day trying to define the crime of "being hostile". As for supporting mass murder, you might as well put yourself and most of the US population on trial for tacitly supporting the actions of the US army in Afghanistan and Iraq. What you are actually saying is that you want people punished for not supporting American policy, or for being hostile to American policy. Thank goodness the world doesn't run according to your meagre brain power, as we would see approximately 80% of the world's population being deported by you for being "hostile". As you live in a country which operates according to the rule of law, why on earth do you propose shifting other nations around like dominos... or is the rule of law only for decent Americans and not for the oppressed underdogs of the world?
24. Keren
Rustum ,   London, UK   (05.23.06)
Ms Keren, if you cannot stand the heat, don't put your fingers in the fire. If you don't like people responding to your calls for expulsion, then try keeping them to yourself and not publishing them on a public forum. For your information, I am expressing thoughts and it is obvious that you simply cannot deal with the issues of tolerance and "non-expulsion". What a great way to respond to a discussion by calling on Ynet not to publish my notes any more. That seems perfectly in keeping with your ideas which are only to listen to the odious concepts which you agree with.
25. Gaining and losing merits
Raffaele Ladu ,   Verona, Italy   (05.23.06)
Helping destitute women carry their pregnancy through is extremely meritorious, even though Efrat focuses on just an ethnic group. But if Efrat justifies its action as an attempt to foster the Jewishness of Israel, in my opinion it loses most of its merits, as it apparently considers children more as instruments and weapons for a demographic battle than as worthwhile human beings. Take care.
26. The demographic threat is not "so-called"! It IS!
Tahl ,   Israel   (05.23.06)
And unless something is done, in our generation we could see arabs outnumbering Jews in Israel (as an average arab woman gives birth to 4.5 children while an average Jewish woman gives birth to 2.7 children, or something along these figures) - then democratically electing their own Arab government to the Knesset, thereby abolishing Israel as the Jewish homeland. The demographic threat is a ticking time-bomb, which we cannot afford to ignore. I don't think the solution to this is to ban abortion, as it is a very personal decision a woman must make. Plus, it's hardly a solution. I do see the solution in redrawing the borders of Israel and the future Palestinian state, so that Israel would give up its arab towns (Um El Fahm, Taybe, etc) and in return, gain major settlements in the West Bank (Ariel, Maale Adumim, Efrat, etc.). This is the perfect solution - the percentage of Jewish population in Israel would dramatically rise, (as Israel's arabs would now be Palestinians, citizens of Palestine, instead of Israelis), Israel would gain legitimate claim to what was until now, disputed territories, the former Israeli arabs would NOT be transferred anywhere, but stay on their lands and homes, but have their own sovreignty, as they've always wished, and we might finally have peace and prosperity for the whole region. The only ones who might protest are those despicable, Israel-hating arab MK's like Tibi, B'shara or Barake, and maybe some ardent leftists like Beilin or Shulamit Aloni, who would never approve something that's actually good for Israel - but I can live with that. This is not a rightist proposal, even Kissinger, who could hardly be seen as a right winger - expressed strong support for it.
27. Daisy's accusations
Rustum ,   London, UK   (05.23.06)
You claim that very few Jews live in Arab countries because "most of them were killed or thrown out". What a total piece of nonsense. The exodus of Jews from various Arab countries was due to a variety of circumstances. The main driver in their exodus was the new state of Israel trying to get them to immigrate, and in some cases, as in Iraq, helping them along with the use of explosions at Jewish centres to hurry the local Jews along. In short, it was a no-win situation for the Arab states. If they hindered the exodus of Jews they were considered dictatorial, if they helped the exodus they were considered to have "thrown out the Jews". The lion's share of the blame, or credit (if you are a zionist), goes to the zionist agencies which wanted those Arab jews out of their homes and inside Israel. As for your hyperbolic statement that "most Jews in Arab countries were killed" - I wonder what books you are reading or whether the statement is your own wishful thinking based in your own prejudice. And as for the concept of "mass murder like the Arabs do against the Jews" - you have the wrong country - it was the Germans, but you Arab-bashers don't really bother about historical or geographic accuracy, you simply base all your hyterical untruths upon bigotry and then think you have achieved veracity. Oh dear.
28. so in fact are pro- choice...
Jennifer ,   Tel Aviv   (05.24.06)
the whole theory behind pro choice is about choice giving women the right to chose and this is what this organisation is doing, its not advocating anti abortion but it is giving poor women who would other wise have to terminate wanted children the oportunity to keep their child the essence of pro choice Efrat is not forcing mothers to keep unwanted children (unlike south dakota) they are allowing wanted children to be born into sustainable economic circumstances whats so bad about that?
29. How effective is Efrat?
Ben-Hur ,   Colorado   (05.24.06)
I applaud Efrat's goals, but I'm wondering how effective they really are. Are they saving lives or just giving a little assistance to women who never really planned on having an abortion?
30. Add a Matchmaker
David ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (05.25.06)
Just add a matchmaker and encourage them to keep going. If the secular Jews in Israel would start pumping out babies they would need not fear the dual demographic threat they perceive - hareidim and arabs.
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