Jewish Scene
Pope pays tribute to Warsaw ghetto uprising
EJP
Published: 26.05.06, 09:06
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
67 Talkbacks for this article
61. Results of this talkback
Adam ,   Poland   (05.30.06)
This poor fellow who shouted “Poland for Poles” and was attacked by rabbi Schuldrich and then pushed him and run away, must have been reading the opinions of the Jews about the Poles and Poland from this page, I have no doubt about it, eg: ---------- Catholic,nationalistic Poles were/are antisemites! It was no coincidence that most of the extermination camps of the Nazis were in Poland. That was because the Poles approved. Despite their own oppression, the vast majority of Poles openly collaborated with the Nazis in murdering millions of Jews. ------------ When he had enough, this poor fellow, wanted to jump out of the window, but on a second thought, still in rage, he decided not to kill himself, but to kill some Jew. Then he went on the street and saw rabbi Schuldrich, but he was so exhausted by the rage that he couldn’t act, and he was so devastated, that he managed to say only a few words in desperation…
62. # 58 Record holder
Konrad ,   Warsaw   (05.30.06)
Your fact is pretty weak. Nothing in comparison with some bolder and more ingenious ideas presented during last week in the Yedioth Achronoth Talkbacks to substantiate the thesis that Poland was and is THE anti-Semitic country. Absolute record belongs to Mr. Andrew Gelbman. Anyone interested in the history of the II WW may read his learned input at: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3255898,00.html (Talkback no 31). Mr. Gelbman writes: ""In Poland, yes there was a conspicious cadre of collaborators (including 2 divisions which fought for Germany, the 1st Armored in the East and the 22nd Grenadier in the West)". The news about the two Polish divisions under German command makes a dramatic breaktrough in the field of modern history.
63. A response to Kate, London
Jonosik ,   Walbrzych, Poland   (05.31.06)
Kate, don't be so harsh on Poles, there are good people and bad peple. Some are both good and bad. Polish people were not and are not an anti-Jewish nation. Jews have lived in Poland for hundreds of years. There were hard times, of course. But what I remember is my granny keeping a Jewish family in an undergroud room for 18 months to save there lives and hide them from the Germans and Ukrainians during WW II. They and their offspring still live in Israel and Canada. By the way, England hasn't always treated her neighbours and other nations all over the world with respect, has she?
64. to Hilda, #45
slawek ,   Bydgoszcz, Poland   (06.01.06)
Such a kind of thinking is just stroking me. You are very, very simple-minded!! This is unbelieveable! This means you know nothing about situation in Europe (especially in Poland) under german occupation. This was total war and total terror.Punishment for any help given Jews was death or KL. Hiding Jews (when discovered by Germans) was penalty of death for both Jews and Poles. I know there were cases some Poles colaborated with German. But Poles as a natian colaborated never. We, Poles, have never "quislings" or "petains". Poles fighted with Germans on all fronts of WWII. Armia Krajowa was the biggest undergroung army in history and the Warsaw Uprising was the biggest battle in occupated by Germans Europe. In german army were "famous" troops called "Schutzstaffeln" - SS. There were SS troups from almost all countries of Europe (from France, Belgium, Holland, Russia, Ukraine, Latvia, Scandinavia, Hungary, Romania, United Kingdom, Croatia, Slovakia, Lithuania, Finland). But there was no one SS troup from Poland. I wonder what it means? In your opinion. Why Germans built KL`s mostly in Poland? About half of the european population of Jews lived in Poland. Ang Germans were and are very practical. "The Danes and the Bulgars would not have allowed it?" This is simple funny. Such kind of thinking. Germans didn`t organize referendum to build or not a death factory on one`s territory. Best regards.
65. To Adam,Konrad,Janosik,itp
HR ,   US   (06.04.06)
If Poland was so good to their Jews why there are hardly any Jews left. Pier@#$l,Pier#$@l,ja postoje!!
66. to HR, US
Konrad ,   Wroclaw, Poland   (06.08.06)
If Poles were so mean towards the Jews, what were they doing here for few houndred years (or maybe they were just masochists)? I wonder if I'll live to a day when I could settle in Israel (just like that, because i want to), and be accepted without any negative bias from neighbor's - (which would be most propably jewsish). I doubt that by reading most of your talkbacks on ynetnews.com.
67. Pope commemorates Warsaw Ghetto Uprising
Steve ,   Toronto Canada   (09.13.07)
Oy. I am an actual historian (Oxford 1998) who has spent about 20 years studying the Holocaust in Poland. I'm afraid I find the level of ignorance displayed by both sides in this exchange appalling. (1) The Catholic Church most definitely contributed to developing antisemitism, not just in Poland but everywhere. Antisemitism was part of Catholic dogma until 1965, so all Catholics were antisemitic: it was part of their religion. (2) Right-wing nationalist parties everywhere used Jews as scapegoats, and there was anti-Jewish violence in many countries (e.g. the Cable Street Riot in London in 1936, organized by Oswald Moseley). Poland was exceptional mainly because there were more Jews there than anywhere else. (3) I would estimate that around 10,000 Jews died at Polish hands between 1936 and 1946. That is (a) appalling, but (b) puts Poland somewhere around 20th place on the Holocaust collaboration league table. (4) The fact that 97% of the Polish Jews were killed in the Holocaust is not attributable to the Poles. Jews were isolated in ghettos and had little contact with Poles. They were rounded up and taken to death camps by Germans, Baltic and Ukrainian auxiliaries, and the forced participation of the ghetto police - Poles had very little to do with it, nor did they staff the camps. (5) Poles did aid the ghetto uprising, particularly the ZZW, which formed its contacts with Polish groups much earlier than the ZOB. The ZZW got rifles and machine guns, and a group of Poles led by Major Henryk Iwanski entered the ghetto and fought alongside them. Iwanski's brother was killed. (6) I would estimate the number of Jews rescued by Poles at about 50,000, or about 5 times as many as were killed. Maybe another 50,000 tried to go into hiding but were caught. Most of them fell victim to German sweeps, but about 10% were betrayed or murdered by Poles. (6) The particular animus against Poles and Poland on the part of many Jews can I think be attributed to the fact that Poland was the Jewish homeland in Europe and holds a special place in Jewish memory. An American journalist in Warsaw told me this story. A Jewish tourist was complaining to him about the terrible antisemitism in Poland and about how so many Poles had killed Jews. The journalist said: "But what about Romania? They killed 350,000Jews." To which the Jew became impatient, and said: "Who cares about Romania?" The point exactly. Romania was just one more country where Jews suffered and died, but Poland, in Yiddish, was Der Haym - Home. Now to twit our Polish friends some more. The escape of Jews from ghettos and camps was accomplished by the Jews themselves: they were not "rescued". There were a few cases where Poles went out of their way to help, but mostly, if they did help, it was because they were asked. And then they sometimes helped, sometimes refused, sometimes betrayed, and sometimes robbed the Jews. I know a case of a man who led a Jew out of the Warsaw Ghetto to a safe apartment, and then once they got there, took everything he had, leaving him naked. However, on the other hand I think Jan Gross exaggerates somewhat in his latest book, Fear. In the case of Warsaw, there was no "ex-Jewish" property, because the city was comprehensively destroyed, especially the ghetto. Afterwards, people salvaged whatever they could. In other places, ghettos were emptied and Polish scavengers moved in - not very nice, but not exactly robbery. It would have made a difference if the Germans had taken it?
Previous talkbacks
Back to article