Jewish Scene
Poland fears world forgets Auschwitz was Nazi camp
Published: 26.05.06, 20:58
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1. The Poles and their selective memory
Elle ,   NYC   (05.26.06)
The Poles were just as bad (if not worse) anti-semites as the Germans. They slaughtered Jewish Partisan groups fighting the Nazis even though they Poles themselves were fighting the Nazis. We will never forget.
2. Nazis' death camps
Howard ,   Pacific Coast, USA   (05.27.06)
There has been Polish anti-semitism for centuries, and Poland should work to ensure that it disappears and never comes back. HOWEVER, the death camps were created and operated by German Nazis, NOT by the Poles. To say that the Poles were worse than the Nazis, who methodically committed a thorough, well-planned and deliberate genocide, is ridiculous.
3. Poland's Citizens Are the Most Anti-Semitic in the World
Seth ,   Washington, DC   (05.27.06)
4. Elle
John ,   Brooklyn, NY USA   (05.27.06)
Your an idiot.
5. the polacks. the krauts and killing jews
debra ,   usa   (05.27.06)
the murder of jews was central to the krauts' existence. for the polacks, their hatred of jews was a civilian duty at which they were quite expert.
6. Worse than the Germans
Konrad ,   Warsaw   (05.27.06)
"The Poles were just as bad (if not worse) anti-semites as the Germans." Those bad, inhuman Poles. Simply monsters. Much, much worse than the Germans. Oops - not Germans, of course. Than the Nazis. Now it's right, as it should be. "They slaughtered Jewish Partisan groups fighting the Nazis even though they Poles themselves were fighting the Nazis." Yes - instead of enthusiastically welcoming the presence of the Soviet supported pro-communist units on the occupied territory of Poland, those Polish monsters dared to accuse them of banditry and terror directed against the local populace. They even went so far as to fight and, in some cases, even liquidate such units, paying no heed to the fact that some of their members were Jewish. Those accusations were an outright lie. It's a well known fact, that the Jews were never ever either Communists or criminals - or both. Poles - yes. It's in their nature. But Jews? Never. And it should be added that those monstrous Poles had in their fascist anti-Semitic pro-Nazi partisan units quite a number of Jewish fighters. But it's obvious that they kept them there just to mask their true and sole objective, i.e. the final liquidation of the remnants of the Holocaust survivors. And the fact is, that those fascist anti-Semitic pro-Nazi Jewish partisans must have been, more than most probably, just self-hating Jews. This is the version of history you should learn, dear Elle from the New York City. And - yes. The good thing is, that not forgetting it won't be difficult. Small amounts of knowledge do not overload minds. Thankfully.
7. heroic poland
jean ,   Paris   (05.27.06)
Hitler wanted to destroy the polish nation : if, on one side, the GERMANS killed three millions of polish jews, they also murdered 1,5 million of poles, ingieneers, priests, officers, academics etc. Nobody should forget the sufferings of this heroic country
8. to debra, elle and others from a polish jew
shimon ,   madrid   (05.27.06)
well, as a polish jew i know what polish antisemitism is but, if you knew some history (it looks quite unlikely) you'd surely know that birkenau and other extermination camps were built and run by german nazis, not by poles. Just think about what an israeli thinks while ignorants say thay the IDF massacred the palestinians at Sabra and Shatila: wouldn't you like to remind them that it was carried out by lebanese maronites? The poles should assume their responsabilities, but just theirs. Debra: you are as ignorant and intollerant as the polish anisemites calling the Pooles krauts and all the following bull...t. You wanna blame those who prosecuted jews? don't behave like them, you ignorant!
DEBRA ,   USA   (05.27.06)
10. Jews created communism.
Alladin ,   Turbanistan   (05.27.06)
Jews created communism. Marx and check the leadership of commie parties in the Soviet Union or in Poland soon after WW2. At least half of them were Jews. When Jews are going to apologize and pay compensations ? You won't hide that screaming "anti-semitism". It doesn't work anymore. All you know is hate of goys. Especially Arabs, Poles, Germans and Russians. Soon you will pay for your crimes and hate.
11. Polish priests
Adam ,   Poland   (05.27.06)
Kate #4 wrote: Catholic priests in Poland openly encouraged Poles to betray Jews to the Nazis. --------- Kurt Lewin of New York, son of rabbi from Lviv, wrote in his book how he survived the war. He and 150 other Jews were saved by archbishop Szeptycki. In his recollection of the archbishop he describe him as a compassionate, loving man, who was proud to be a friend of his father rabbi Jecheskiel Lewin. Diane Armstrong, an Australian-Jewish writer from Sydney in her book “Mosaic” wrote about a meeting in 1990 with one of the Polish priests, so badly accused by Kate, (chapter 45): “The door opens, and an old man is looking intensely into my face. Then he folds his arm around me, he’s holding me tightly against him, and he’s saying over and over again, ‘Little Danusia. My little Danusia.’ Tears are pouring down my face; I’m sobbing so hard that I don’t think I’ll ever stop. Some grief I didn’t know I felt is flooding over me as I stand here, a helpless little girl held by this old man who strokes my hair and cups my wet face in his gentle hands. In a soothing voice he murmurs, “Little Danusia. Cry, my poor child, you have plenty of reason to cry. After all you’ve gone through, after all the terrible times you’ve lived through, let it all out now, my child, just cry. My little Danusia. May God keep you, may he always have you in his care.” When I look up, I see a puckish face, one eye reddened and half closed, but an alert gaze full of compassion. It feels as if he’s looking straight into my heart, and I stand in his doorway, sobbing, overwhelmed by feelings I cannot understand. Seeing him again, feeling his compassion, hearing him use the Polish name my parents used to call me, releases emotions so deeply lodged that I didn’t even know they were there. All the anxiety, tension and sorrow that my childish mind absorbed and suffered in silence fifty years ago are spilling out at this moment. (…) Benevolence shines from Father Soszynski’s face. In a voice that’s surprisingly strong for a man of eighty-three, he says, “I was thinking about you just two days ago. I thought about your parents and wondered whether little Danusia was still alive. While I was in town today someone said that people from overseas were looking for me. I thought of you straightaway. Danusia! I thought, and flew home like a bird!”
12. Alladin.How many times must I tell U Jewhaters....
Alan ,   SA   (05.27.06)
...the plural of Goy is GOYIM. You lose credibility when your rubbish is gramatically incorrect. Now rub your lump and disappear... Oh yes,dont forget a capital G .
14. - 12
Alladin ,   Turbanistan   (05.27.06)
No, Alan. I won't disapear. And what are going to do ? Scream "anti-semitism" ?
15. - 13
Alladin ,   Turbanistan   (05.27.06)
A great majority ? Dear "chosen", If you bothered to learn anything you wouldn't have to guess. 3 million Polish goys, over 10% of the whole population, were killed by nazis, many others by (often Jewish) communists, thousands of Polish goys were killed in Auschwitz before first Jews were sent there. Jews in Palestine were fighting British and Arabs in that time. YOUR historical revisionism won't change these facts.
16. Poles & The Camps
Michael ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (05.28.06)
Unfortuantely for those who deny it, the Nuremberg trials showed that the vast majority of Kapos (prisoners armed with clubs, doing the Nazi's bidding) were Poles. Testimony given at the trials indicated that the Polish Kapos were the cruellest and most brutal towards the Jewish prisoners. This doesn't change the fact that there were also "righteous Gentiles", who saved Jews (and others) at the risk of their own lives. In most of the camps in Poland there were TWO undergrounds... a Polish Nationalist Underground (which barred Jews) and an International Underground, which had members from all the occupied countries. Outside the camps, there were also two partisan movements in Poland, again, a Nationalist movement (to which Jews were, again, refused entry) and a wider underground, which the Polish Nationalists immediately named as communist. Poland is right to worry about the impression others have-- many Polish actions towards other oppressed people in the Concentration Camps were reprehemsible-- and a number of Polish Collaborators were brought to trial for their crimes in the camps. Poland, and the Polish people will have to learn to live with that. For # 7: Put it in perspective: Yes, the murder of 1.5 million Christian Polish citizens was horrible-- but how many Polish Christians were left alive in Poland, compared to the number of Jews left after 3 million were murdered?
17. #3: surely you jest. Consider Iran, Syria, Egypt.
howard ,   pacific coast, usa   (05.28.06)
18. #10: anti-semitic slurs add nothing to the discussion
howard ,   pacific coast, usa   (05.28.06)
There have been Jews on the left, on the right and in the center. Jews did not create the Soviet dictatorship or its slave states; Jews frequently suffered under Stalin and his successors. Trying to blame "the Jews" for all the ills of the world, particularly the ones that hurt Jews, is typical anti-Semitic BS. You are projecting your own feelings of hatred and inadequacy onto Jewish people. I have good friends who are Poles, and Germans, and Muslims and, of course, my fellow Jews. I find these friends to be decent, hard-working, caring people whose lack of animosity toward people of other ancestry or faith is strikingly different from your vile spew. Dare I guess that you are a neo-Nazi? Your "Alladin,Turbanistan" alias seems to be rather condescending toward Arabs, and you appear to love spewing your hatred of Jews in public. I would guess that because you have such a gracious, winning personality nobody likes you and you don't like anyone.
20. Jewish sick antipolonism
jarek ,   usa   (05.28.06)
This discussion prooved, that if Polish antisemitism during WW II would be even in part so big as Jewish antipolonism today, Israel would have twice less citizens.. I bet that most of Jewishs taking part in the discussion wouldn't be born if not Polish people. There were only two ways to survival WW II for Jewish people. First - Polish people helped, second Sonderkommando (I bet that most of you don't know what does it mean) Who hates Poland the most? Children of fathers from Sonderkommando.
21. # 16
Konrad ,   Warsaw   (05.28.06)
A nice try. Sounds almost scientifically. But "almost" is the key word in your comment. Go back to books. Start talking about the Polish underground when you return. Your description of the situation borders on ridiculous. Did you start your education sometime during the Stalinist era? That would explain a lot. And, for your information. Before the war Poland was a multinational country. Many of the inmates in the concentration camps were former Polish citizens, but not necessarily ethnic Poles. Countries such like Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine are now in existence. Be kind enough and stop trying to burden Poland also with the crimes committed by people belonging now to these countries. Enough is enough.
22.  3. Poland's Citizens Are the Most Anti-Semitic in t
23. Jews are the most anti-Polish people in the world
Shlomo ,   Dublin   (05.28.06)
Jews are the most anti-Polish people in the world. Just read this forum.
24. Jewish racists!
jackaL ,   Poland   (05.28.06)
Judging from the comments on this site, I might as well write that YOUR nation is the most racist one... Don't be so ignorant.
25. Have you ever been to Poland?
Tomek ,   Poland -Warsaw   (05.28.06)
I'm living here and I dont'k know any Anti - Semitic people. It's crazy but every hooligan action that you may find all around the world must be considered as Anti-Semitic or Anti god only knows whom else.I can agree that we might been considered as alcoholics ;-) but why as Anty-Semitic? I was grown as a tolerante man.
26. Who was Kapo Hanka Rosenswayg???
Adam ,   Poland   (05.29.06)
Some tome ago the moderator highlighted the topic of the Poles and the Camps. #16 Must have been impressed with the statements that seemed to be written by a historian. Lets study the “scientific” value of say the first statement: “Unfortuantely for those who deny it, the Nuremberg trials showed that the vast majority of Kapos (prisoners armed with clubs, doing the Nazi's bidding) were Poles.” --------------- Whoever learned a little bit about the operation of the concentration camps knows, that the ethnic/national groups were separated, and the Kapo’s were selected from within the groups, so indeed within the Polish groups were Polish Kapo’s, but within the Russian groups Russian Kapo’s, and within the Jewish groups …. Ups, no, noooooo, I can’t say that, to the young moderator… There was a large group of Kapo’s brought for trial to Israel (see Kapo’s trial in Israel through Googles), they were Marsians, I presume… There wasn’t Nuremberg trial of Kapo’s as such, as they were put on trial in the respective administration disrticts were the concentration camps were located. There is a vast number of documents from this trials. What is stricking in them is the characteristic description of some of the Kapo’s, for the example Hanka Rosenwayg from Belsen is described as “Polish national”. Not a Pole, but “Polish national”, interesting… Anybody in Isreal could tell me please who was Hanka Rosenswayg or Hejmech Glinovjechy or Ehlert, Francioh, Calesson, Burgraf, Pichen, Stofel, Dorr, Zoddel, Ostrowski, Aurdzieg, Ilse Forster, Bothe, Walter, Haschke, Fiest, Sauer, Lisiewitz, Roth, Hempel and Kopper????? -------- How long it took to produce the statement about non-existent Nuremberg trial of Kapo’s and stigmatising the Poles… 2 minutes? It was so easy. Where this Michael was trained in producing the falsehood so easily? In Israel or maybe in Poland in the Secret Police quarters where many Polish patriots were put on trial based on completely false accusasions massively produced, no, no, not by Jews, by “the communists”. They were Jews before and after that, but in between they were only “the communists”…
27. To Howard #2
Elle ,   NYC   (05.29.06)
"To say that the Poles were worse than the Nazis, who methodically committed a thorough, well-planned and deliberate genocide, is ridiculous." Read what I wrote again, b/c you obviously misunderstood what I wrote..... I said they were" just as bad (if not worse) ANTI-SEMITES as the Germans." I didn't say they did worse things than the Germans. However, I feel that as awful as what the Nazis did was, killing Jews was more of a job and a sense of duty. Not excusing it by any means, but that's the truth. They were trained to kill. The Polish did it it purely for their own enjoyment, much like the Hungarians. Many Polish partisan groups massacred Jewish partisan groups (not only Communist ones, that is a dishonst claim) and they murdered Jewish SURVIVORS after the war who returned to their homes. There is extensive documentation on these crimes as I have studied the Holocaust for years. So as you can see my claim that they were just as bad anti-Semites stands correct.
28. the holocaust, poland, the pope, and all of us
debra ,   usa   (05.29.06)
#26 adam. there are 8,000 jews alive in poland today according to the website: polish is it this 8,000 remnant who caused all this trouble for the "polish patriots" with the communists? this is unbelieveable. they say the polish jews suffer from postramatic stress disorder. how did they accomplish all you accuse them of? this is anti-semitism on your part, i believe. in my own way, i understand how much you must wrestle with the holocaust because it happened where you live. there is tremendous pain in all of us- jews, christians, polish citizens, who survived or came after the holocaust. part of the pain is because there is no explanation for the holocaust except the realization of the incredible evil that exists in some people who walk this earth and what they are capable of doing to their fellowman. even the pope today during his visit to auschwitz asked god for an explanation of the holocaust. why didn't god intervene, the pope asked god in his prayer at the camp. if i were you and the holocaust and its relationship to poland, in one way or another is so painful to you, i would try to travel to countries that the holocaust bypassed. leave europe, and things might look brighter. when i made a trip to europe and saw the anne frank home in amsterdam, i returned to my hotel and couldn't get out of bed for three days. for three days i lay there shivering with fear, feeling the horror of the holocaust all around me. well, that's all my advice. you probably didn't want it, but there it is.
29. # 27 Elle the Holocaust scholar
Konrad ,   Warsaw   (05.29.06)
"However, I feel that as awful as what the Nazis did was, killing Jews was more of a job and a sense of duty. Not excusing it by any means, but that's the truth. They were trained to kill. The Polish did it it purely for their own enjoyment" Just for my curiosity sake. As a professed historian - how do you measure the levels of enjoyment in killing people? While using the word "purely", you mean "100%", am I reading you right? What percentage of enjoyment would you ascribe to Germans as professionals? Any scientific materials on the methodology of such measurements that you could recommend?
30. Communists' crimes, to Debra #28
Adam ,   Poland   (05.30.06)
Dear Debra, Make, please, some attempt to study the subject because you obviously know nothing about the huge number of Jews in the communist’s apparatus in Poland. Start, for the example, from the of case of Mrs Wolinska, whose extradition from Great Britain to stay a trial for her crimes in Poland, was requested by the Polish government recently and refused by British of on “a humanitarian ground”. Maybe also Ellie, “the scholar” whitewashing the German crimes, could elaborate on the role of the Jews in reinforcing the Stalin’s rule in Poland. Ellie, “the scholar”, might need to study a little bit harder on the subject of the role of the Germans in the Holocaust, starting, for the example, from the pogrom of Jews in June 1941 in Bialystok, to learn how the “good Germans” performed their “duties” during two days of murders, rapes, robbery that ended with herding the remaining Jews in a synagogue and burning them alive. About 2000 Jews were murdered then by the Germans from the “auxiliary units”. Shalom
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