I've spent many a shabbos and holiday at various Chabad houses. While I grant you I'm not a rabbi, or partiularly religous they always seemed "kosher" to me. Would an Israeli please explain to me what these religous council are? Who is on them? Are they government supported? What's the deal?

Don't give in to the Chabad Meshichists. They are total nutcases and are indeed no longer part of Orthodox Judaism because of the idolatry that they practice. This is a crazy demand, I have never heard of any need for a DOUBLE mikveh for a mikveh to be valid! This is totally nuts. My respect for Chabad just went down the toilet a bit more. First they become Zionists, then they become halfway Modern-Orthodox, and now they try to take over Israeli towns and ignore local rabbis. Forgive me for using some harsh words, but: let Chabad go and screw themselves and leave us Orthodox Jews alone. Chabad has by its actions long since disengaged from the Orthodox Jewish world.

Look pal, I have the utmost respect for othodox people, I really do. But you spit out zionist like it's an insultt , and modern orthodox like that's even worse. Do you want to be part of Palestine with all that comes with that. Be a dhimmi. Pay the tax instead of feeding off the government spigot. Be under the protection of the muslim brotherhood instead of the IDF. Has far as I know Joshua, Gideon, David, and everybody up to the last IDF soldier killed on duty has pitched in for our people. A lot of American Jews may not carry a rifle but support Israel in a thousand different ways. I know that Torah study is important but let me ask you this. How many of these guys in the yeshiva's are brilliant students and teachers and how many are just hanging out letting their wives work and living off the dole?

Most every Mikvah in the world has two pools. One for the person immersing, and one for the rainwater. The rainwater needs to be connected to the immersion pool for the immersion pool to be considered like rainwater. the Chabad custom is that the rainwater pool is underneath the immersion pool, others have a custom for the rain to be on the side.

For more about Mikvahs, you may visit http://mikvah.org/directory/ . You will note that some Mikvahs have the pools "side by side" other have the pools "Bor al gabei bor" which means onr pool on top of the other, which is the Chabad custom.

Even more on Mikvah: http://www.chabad.org/1541

judism is not a democracy the rabbi decided not to build it that way and that's that. since he is in charge its his descion you dont like it stay in crown hights

Do you REALLY think Hashem cares about this nonsense? The Chabad do many wonderful things for the rest of the Jewish nation. They are above the rants of these fools.

"Why don't you go back where you came from." is the classic remark of yesterday's anti-semite and today's Arab. Is this the company an Israeli from Jerusalem wants to be in over a difference of custom about how to build a mikveh that is, in both cases, halachically correct?

but upside down-) Chabad are the opposite. understand who can.

Growing secular I never knew anything about this types of issues, after traveling on business for the last 10 years, I have come to apreciate observant Judaism through Chabad. I am sick and tired of hearing disparaging remarks about the keepers of the faith, the only ones out there who care about EVERY single Jew, including those who mock them. Mark

put down chabad as a bunch of messianic nutcases, besides that there are only a minoroty of there "meshichists", what have they done to warrant such hatred, on the contrary they do truly amazing work, all the aish hatorah and their like are just copy cats from chabad, every jew knows that amlost anywhere in the world, u can find a chabad house, and for all you know, chabad have a much better education and upbringing than most "us orthodox jews" so dont go spreading your filthy lashon hara in public. dont forget lashon hara hurts 3 people, 1 the person who says it,(even if its true, which in this case its absolutly not), 2 the people its about (in this case thousands of Jews) and the person who hears it (again hundreds of people reading this article). just think first before you go blowing your top.

non-religious Jews back into the mainstream by their kindness and one step at a time approach. They are as kosher as other Orthodox shuls but more accepting of people who dont' know a lot. Send ten non-religious Jews to a Chabad house and ten to an Orthodox shul. Chabad will be much more successful; you bring back more Jews with kindness than you do with rigidity. Chabad is much happier with any progress than it is in chasing you away because you don't fit in the cookie cutter yet.

If Chabad want to build a mikvah what is the problem? No one is forcing everyone else to use it.

Chabad follows the Shulchan Orech Harav who says that the mikveh must be constructed one pit on top of another. It is in no way messianic. It is a ruling of the Baal Hatanya that has been followed for over 200 years. The Misnagdim who do not follow this ruling i.e. The Elkana Council, is merely trying to politicize the issue and cause more sinas chinam between Jews.

From the Orthodox Union: "The literal meaning of the term Mikvah (pl. Mikva’ot) is "collection". The term is used in the Torah particularly when reference is made to 'collected' water (Bereishit 1:10, Shemot 7:19, Vayikra 11:36 et al). Today the term usually signifies “ritual immersion bath”. Vayikra 11:36 states that only bodies of water which are connected to the ground, "…a spring, or a cistern – a gathering of waters" ("Mikvei Mayim") are not receptive to ritual impurity (note Rashi). These bodies of water, when correctly utilized, can purify those who have become ritually impure (Note Hullin 84a, and Rashi). This ruling was derived from Vayikra 15:16 where it refers to a man in a state of impurity immersing "his entire flesh in THE water (BAmayim)." The sages interpreted this to mean that the water must either "gather together of its own accord" i.e. the natural waters of seas, lakes, and rivers – or be contained within artificially constructed Mikva'ot which meet certain Halachic requirements." http://www.ou.org/torah/tt/5765/lechlecha65/mikdash.htm In fact, one can use a body of running water (suitably private) as a mikvah D'Oraita. It appears that this Elkana dissension is regarding construction details rather than D'Oraita halacha. Therefore, presumably every attempt should be made to iron these issues out (one assumes both designs are halachically correct), but if there is no give, then by tradition--which every observant Jew recognizes as having considerable weight, the rabbi of the town takes precedence. One hopes that as an alternative the Chabad group could remain in the community and construct a separate mikvah. One hopes that there is not another agenda...the attorney gives two contradictory quotes, which one hopes is the mistake of the reporter. Also, it seems very inappropriate to take this to a secular court. The court (at present) is not ruling according to Jewish law and custom. Is the court even taking Jewish law and custom into account?

Chardal vs. Lubavitch -who do U hate more ? your posts are well known - you have a deep hatred for dati leumi zionist jews and you love satmar - but it seems the hatred you have for lubavitch exceeds your hatred for the religious zionists as represented by the mizrachi/dati leumi/gush eminim religous council and kipa seruga rabbi of Elkana. or maybe now that you know that elkana is chareidi dati leumi - you will decide that you hate them more than lubavitch

Do we not have enogh problems in the world that we need to be reduced to this?

It's about time the issue of what Chabad really is came to a head: Is it a part of Torah Judaism, or has it become a Messianistic cult with beliefs that render them essentially non-Jewish, even if they dress as Hassidim and keep Shabbos etc.? Those among them who believe that R'Schneerson zt"l has not really died and is waiting to rise again (a la Jesus), certainly seem to be beyond the pale, and questions will obviously arise about the validity of their shechitah etc. When once asked which religion was theologically closest to Judaism, R' Shach zt"l responded "Lubavitch." He also compared Chabad and R' Schneerson to the followers of the 17th-century false messiah Sabbatai Zevi

It is very unfortunate, because Chabad has done a lot of good outreach work. But it's as irrelevant to the issue as how much great outreach work the followers of Shabbatai Zevi might have done. You can't stifle debate by screaming "loshon horo!" It's NOT loshon horo to point out that a LOT of Chabadnicks believe in the immortality of R' Schneerson zt"l, which is a belief that is fundamentally at odds with Judaism. Any more than it would have been loshon horo to point out the same things about Shabbatai Zevi. It's a big question just who and how many.

The problem isn't Chabad. the problem is the mishachist movement within Chabad, which creates problems for Chabad itself and the Jewish people as a whole. The high court isn't qualified to rule on anything connected to Judaism, let alone whether Chabad is orthododox. And that's not a question. The Chabad derekh is devout and true. The question is whether the mishachistim have blundered off the Jewish path into Sabbatean or Christian territory. Sadly, I think they have. On the other hand, I understand the religious council's position in terms of their rabbi having made a decision and sticking to it. A kosher mikva is a kosher mikva and they shouldn't allow someone to dictate a humra that is not their own to them.

Why not raise the money and build it privately as is done abroad?

Chabad Jews are wonderful. They reach out to their fellow Jews with love and respect. It seems to me that they do more than any other group on a world wide basis to spread knowledge of Judaism and Torah. I have encountered Chabadnicks on four different continents, and they have always come across as sincere, knowledgeable, friendly and helpful. They practice Judaism in such a way as to be a “light unto the nations.”

The bottom line is that Elkana has a duly appointed Chief Rabbi and what he says is what the community must follow. If the chabad members of the community feel that a regular mikveh is not kosher enough for them, let them raise money and build their own. The community is not obligated to oblige a minority who wish to observe their particular minhag. The chabad families should have taken this into consideration when they moved there, and with there being no chabad mikveh in the community either should not have moved there or built their own. what did they do till now?

look , many love chabad, as a free of charge judaism. but judaism it ain't. in older generations, they call of their ilk minim. israelis in particular, that are granted free -government paid- religious services, think that this is the order of the world. a free breakfast in goa india, does not make them kosher.

actually, trumpeldor, chabad and decency, are antonyms.

as it says, ki messanekha hashem essno!

u r wrong sir those minim, have their own shchita and will not eat yours, they have their own plagiarize shulchan arukh. their own crypto god. just like the god pigeon hidden in the closet of the kuthim

....is done abroad? asks Pat No. 23 Good question, in Chabad Modus Operendi however, when targetting a takeover of a community, first, they declare the perfectly kosher existing miqve , built before they decided to show up and pick a fight, inadequate. They have their own system which is the only thing they will use. Nothing else is kosher. Then they have to bring a clown of theirs, to fine tune the miqve to their specification. Then they will say that the schita of the local rabbis is no good enough, and will want it replaced by the meat of an american felon of their community. Nothing else will be edible. Then, they will pick on the community kitchens and restaurants, and will tell you , why not hire cooks and mashgichim of theirs? They have no respect for any Judaism orthodox or otherwise. Once they achieve those changes, they will tell you, that before they came -at the expense of the unsuspecting community- there was no yiddish kite, they built the miqve, they established the kashrut. stealing thereby the credit of old generations, and erasing the community identity, homogenising it, under their min , (crypto) messianic tutelage. Those fortunate communities who can see thru them, throw them out soon enough.