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Yeshiva student: We hid girl's body in bag
Neta Sela
Published: 30.05.06, 07:37
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23 Talkbacks for this article
1. If police have enough evidence agaisnt parents: prosecute
gabriela ben ari ,   jerusalem   (05.30.06)
but why add a controversial autopsy when not really needed?? And if needed, could YNET publish WHY, instead of leaving so much room from speculation to the readers?
2. In case of infection...
Dorothy Friend ,   Tel Aviv   (05.30.06)
...it can be a public health matter! The parents may or may not, depending on your view on that, to medically treat their child as they see fit, but once something is infectious, there is the risk of it spreading to other people who would rather not get it, or have their children get it. There were cases in the Netherlands of polio being spread to other infants, too young to have had their shots, by children of some very religious Christians who had the disease because their parents didn't believe in shots.
3. What a Chillul Hashem! And Disrespect for the Dead!
Daniel ,   New York   (05.30.06)
These foolish yeshivah students. A dead body is like a Sefer Torah and should be treated with respect, not stuffed into a plastic bag, whether or not he disliked the prospect of an autopsy.
4. #1
NP ,   Israel   (05.30.06)
Because they didn't have enough evidence to prosecute. But they had enough evidence to believe it was a reckless act. Hence why they need to perform autopsy, to see what really happend to the baby. And by stealing the body those Charedim are not better than gang members or 'Wise guys'. Think about it. (Btw, I have nothing against charedim, I just think this act was purely savage)
5. Religion-induced
Yoni ,   Israel   (05.30.06)
* "not even at my wedding was I that happy …" * Police suspect the girl died of an infection after her parents refused to give her antibiotics under strict vegan diet instructions. * Carrying the dead body of an infant in a plastic bag ( respect for the dead, yeah, right ) Even if some of the details of this article turned out to be not entirely true ( I have no reason to assume they are not, I just try to give the suspects some benefit of the doubt ), the Ashdod baby-corpse-kidnapping affair furnishes the umpteenth evidence that, no matter how beautiful religion is and can be, if applied in extremist ways it can cause people to do the craziest, ugliest and most despicable things imaginable, and that Muslims definitely do not have a monopoly when it comes to religious fanaticism and religion-induced insanity.
6. Have they not heard of pikuach nefesh??
Richard Silverstein ,   Seattle, USA   (05.30.06)
There is so much about this story that is not only deeply tragic, but also bizarre and outlandish. First, have the parents not heard of "pikuach nefesh??" I'm not sufficient steeped in Orthodoxy to understand why parents would feel they could not provide a critically ill infant with antibiotics. But even if there were a halachic reason, pikuach nefesh should outweigh any other consideration. The parents who made these horrible decisions were abusive and negligent. When you have infant children of yr own these stories horrify even more than for any ordinary person. And the subsequent actions by those who "kidnapped" the body border on the obscene or at least bizarre. It reminds me of the circus we had here in the States over Terry Schiavo. I'm certain that evangelical fanatics would've kidnapped her comatose body if they could have to further their religious/ideological agenda. I have no animus against Judaism or any other religion but this story gives our religion a bad name.
7. Typical behaviour
Talula ,   Israel   (05.30.06)
8. Poor little girl:( My Condolences to her family.
Jerusalem,Israel   (05.30.06)
9. Poor baby
Blueyes ,   Israel   (05.30.06)
Come on! The child died under mysterious circumstances. You have to check what happened! The charidim weren't worried about packing that poor little baby into a bag, but they're scared to death that ANOTHER religious parent killed their child! Come clean guys! Souls are at stake here. And let the guilty be charged.
10. moshe
bas ,   beerotaim   (05.30.06)
just sick, your just poor silly guys. poor baby girl, was born by the wrong person. person?
11. Above the law
Nadav ,   Misgav   (05.30.06)
Respect everybody for his beliefs, sure. But what if he believe he is above the law of the country he lives in. Tell you something, in the US they would not have dared. Just here these guys are out of control. Serve the army instead!
12. #11
Dorothy Friend ,   TEl Aviv   (05.30.06)
Please, not in the army. I've heard enough horror stories about what happens when they join a mixed unit. Women soldiers thrown out of courses that they want to take, women soldiers banned from wearing t-shirts (which men soldiers can wear) when off duty because it gets them all hot and bothered, candy and coffee machines locked on Saturday because it offends their sensitive sensitivities. Cut their special tribute payments, but don't send them to the army! As for the USA, their own fundamentalists are getting more and more above the law every day. Look at the sect that brokeaway from the Mormons and their multiple marriages and rape of underage girls. Very few prosecutions there.
13. Haredim
Sienna ,   TA   (05.30.06)
When I saw yesterday on the tv those terrible Haredim I felt such an anger. Who are those ridiculous people and why are they "protected"?. Move those people to an Island, my g-d, they let their kids die, don't give them medical help or they shake them too hard and sometimes they forget one of their 10 kids in the car during the summer and the kid dies, but it is ok, because this is g-d 's will...religion to the extreme...the government should treat them like any other Israeli citizen, start to work, pay taxes, serve the army etc...
14. Nobody knows
Gad ,   Kfar Saba   (05.30.06)
Nobody knows why the kid died. Nobody. Jews do NOT perform autopsy and autopsy was not needed. Somebody in the medical field needed body for medical experements. I am an MD. The Bodies are used in US, China, France and other countries and cost a lot. In Israel it is used very often (some atheists even sell bodies of their children). Think about it.
15. #13
shmaltsy feivel ,   jerusalem   (05.30.06)
Dear sienna, suprise suprise-i'm a Haredi with 13 kids(and one on the way) and never once forgot one in the car,nor shake them too hard-they don't even carry knives to school like the Tel Aviv 'well brought up' kids too!P.S- In most non-jewish countries they understand that an autopsy is disrespectful and will not do one if the family so wishes. Shame some people in Tel Aviv can't have at least that level of respect!
16. #13
Lorry ,   Northen Israel   (05.30.06)
In our statement: most non-Jewish countries understand that an autopsy is disrespectful and will not do one if the family so wishes. But in cases of neglect that results in death it is the law to have an autopsy done. Shame on you, for justifying that an innocent child should be allowed to die
17. to # 16 Lorry
Sienna ,   TA   (05.30.06)
"Shame on you, for justifying that an innocent child should be allowed to die" Shame on me???? Read my talkback again, I think you confuse me with another talkback....these parents let their child die by not giving her the medicine... I don't justify that at all....
18. Nobody donates bodies
Yariv ,   Tel Aviv   (05.30.06)
How many of you donated the body of yourself or your child (after death) to a university? None. Before you talk about donating somebody else body, write that you are ready to donate your own body (or sell it). Then you may talk about others bodies.
19. they caused their child's death
chaya ,   bat yam   (05.30.06)
By not doing what Judaism deands - take their child to a doctor to be treated correctly - they contributed to their child's death by giving her New-Age homeopathic (mumbo-jumbo) 'medicine.' What they did is SO against Halacha. Judaism has nothing in common with Christian Scientists.
20. Almost all Hareidim use modern medicine
Karen R ,   Maryland   (05.30.06)
Almost all Hareidim use modern medicine - ESPECIALLY for their children. It is a commandment from the Torah to guard one's health - one's body belongs not to oneself but is on loan from the Creator. How much more so our precious children! All the Hareidim I know call the doctor if their child so much as sneezes. These parents are not typical Hareidim - if they use homeopathy against the doctor's orders they belong to some weird cult-like group. Probably they came from the US, or were influenced by immigrants from the US who were involved in "New Age" type craziness. Yes, they should be tried, and maybe an evaluation by a psychiatrist would be good too.
21. Chareidi?
Ach Tov ,   Balto., USA   (05.30.06)
I am chareidi - and proud of it. My family and I use what's now considered traditional medicine. There is no judaic law, stringency, or anything spiritual at all, anywhere, prohibiting this. On the contrary, we are commanded to zealously guard our God-given gift of health and body. The fact that this family decided to go homoepathic does not stem from Judaism. There are other factions within Judaism which are not supported if not outright condemned by Judaism, just like any other denomination or religion, i.e. vegetarianism, or what some refer to as Eastern medicine. It does not represent Jewish opinion, and definitely not chareidi life choices. There may not be a direct prohibition against such things, but Orthodoxy is very into going with the norm of universally accepted standards by all things not directly connected to Mitzvos and Halachah (laws and way of life). This couple may or may not have been negligent, but an autopsy is absolutely forbidden by the Torah. Having said that, I highly doubt that these bodynappers were in contact with a competent halachic authority. We do NOT do things like stealing, taking matters into our own hands, or stuffing bodies into bags. Their passion may have been justified, but they must be definitely and unequivocally condemned for the manner in which they carried out what is only disrespect for the 'mes' (corpse). THESE PEOPLE DO NOT IN ANY WAY REPRESENT CHAREIDIM, ORTHODOXY, HALACHAH, TORAH OR ANYTHING ELSE ELSE INHERENTLY JEWISH. The law in this case was certainly wrong, but we do not control the world.
22. Ghastly!
Simon Kolbert   (05.30.06)
Is there anything more macabre than this story? Body snatching!!! When time travel is discovered, the Haredim should be sent on a journey - all the way back to the Pleistocene era where they belong.
23. #19
Dorothy Friend ,   Tel Aviv   (05.31.06)
And in the case of infectious disease, they could have caused the death of someone else's child.
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