France fined for wartime transport of Jews
Published: 06.06.06, 22:10
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1. Sad
gabriela ben ari   (06.06.06)
2. No amount of money
Arie   (06.06.06)
The french WILLFULLY and ACTIVELY sought to assist the nazis in their quest to exterminate the Jews of France. From transporting them to the nazis to OPENLY raiding schools and seizing the children for extermination, the french people were as guilty as himmler eichmann and every other nazi seeking the "final solution"
3. Stupidness and greadiness
Leo ,   Paris   (06.07.06)
It is completely redicules to demand those compensations now, after more than 60 years since the end of the WWII. Those, who organized the deportations, as well as those who were the victimes, all those people are largely dead or at least extremely old at present. Who are paying "the fines" now? They have nothing to do with nazies and their crimes. Let us not forget that those who did actually run the trains 60 years ago were forced to do this by the occuping power, their "objections" would not metter anyhow. This quest of gready lawers and shamless politicians "to set scores" produces nothing but antisemitism and revisionism all over Europe. Finally, somebody influential in the world jewish community should be brave and kindly ask to stop this nonsense. Those who want so much to make the "damn french" to pay have to ask themself: do they really ready to pay compensation for deeds of all those jews, who, for example, very actively participated to the bloody Bolshevic revolt in Russia?
4. arie, yeah, that must be the case
not because they were, ahem, occupied
5. France's phony contrition
Louis ,   New Jersey, USA   (06.07.06)
Yeah, France feels so guilty about sending Jews to their deaths in WW2 that she's encouraging the Arabs to finish the job -- both in Israel and Europe. What a truly degenerate, savage country. No more GIs are going to die for these ingrates. We get the Jews out, then we will leave France to her fate. Enjoy you dhimmitude, France.
6. Arie : France fined for wartime transport...
Marcel Abel ,   Thoiry, France   (06.07.06)
To Arie, his posting dated June 6 : Unfair, cruel and not true for a great majority of French. My father - a steam engine driver during the Second World War - cannot explain the true facts to you : he is dead. But he told me once he never transported civilians, only war equipment, merchandise and most often German soldiers. But I know he would have asked you most friendly : where have you been when I saved your father or your mother, your brother or your sister ? Tell me, Arie, where have you been ? Occupied France was not what you saw in war films. Do you know what forced labour meant during war times ? Do you know what occupation can be ? Of course, my father would not tell you how many Jews he and his companions saved in the war in peril of their life. « From transporting them to the nazis to OPENLY raiding schools and seizing the children for extermination, the french people were as guilty as himmler eichmann and every other nazi seeking the "final solution". » You meant what you say ? Silence and Peace after Pain. Please, Father, and you deep, beautiful France, forgive Arie for this last sentence and in particular for the last two words : he doesn't know what he says. Arie, you have offended my father - one among many French heros of the Second World War - and insulted France very seriously, and hurt me. Abel was the first name of my father. O Lord where are you when I cry onto you ? My dear friends, that will be my last posting on the site. Thank you all and, of course, Ynet for warm welcome. A Dieu. Marcel Abel (France).
7. re:
Alex ,   Miami, FL   (06.07.06)
...are you really that suprised? Europe is a still a cash piniata for some people, irrespective of sense, reason, and a desire for peace/final-settlement. merciless greed. It's funny how these acts of self-interest and at times blatant greed are creating exactly the environment they are trying to avoid/prevent...
8. Calm down ! look at facts.
Hiram Al Masry ,   Tel Aviv   (06.07.06)
The SNCF , formed shortly before the war by the merger of all previous " individual " companies ( Etat, P& O, PLM, Ouest , Est ))was virtually taken over at the beginning of the French occupation ( summer 1940) by personnel form the DR ( Deutsche Reichbahn ) . Most of the time, all existing positions were provided with a " controller" from the DR to ensure that orders given by the German military were strictly followed. One of the first resistance network in France was started by SNCF workers. It was extremely common for trains hauling Jewish victims inside France or from France to nazi germany to be operated by both a French and a German engineer. The transport orders were coming directly from the German and indeed, should the SNCF personel have refused " en masse" the Deutsche Reichbahn was able to assume technical ownership of the entire system in a few weeks. The regime in place in these days was Petain's government which as we all know was not necessarily concerned by Jews ' fate. The rest is a matter of individual courage, like in all occupied countries, when "standard" citizens have gone the extra mile to hide Jews .The guilty parties are no more no less than the administration of the Petain's government , located in these days in Vichy . If the claim is sustained, It would be then logical that similar claims be filed with the Italian F.S ( Ferrovie dello Stato ) , the German DB ( whose origin was indeed the ReichBahn ), the Polish PKP ( Polskie Koleje Pantswowe) the Austrian Railways and the MAV ( Hungarian railroad ) as all of them have allowed , at one point or the other, the utilisation of their track to passage of trains bringing Jews to their deathm and have had similar behaviors. Will that judgment be appealed , like it is not uncommon in this kind of affair ?
9. For those who read french !
Hiram Al Masry ,   Tel Aviv   (06.07.06)
The following is taken from a website dedicated to the history of french railroad. It clearly says that the set up of transports to the east were the work of the Reichbahn. The SNCF was the " instrument " in the same fashion other railroad network in Nazi occupied territories contributed to the accomplishment of the Shoah. For more information if needed and if compatible with your language you can enter any search engine with the key words HISTOIRE SNCF OCCUPATION . You will find all relevant documentation and historical facts. Les chemins de fer et la déportation Mais surtout, l'année 1942 est celle des déportations [des Juifs vers le Reich]. Le premier transport de déportation part de la région parisienne le 27 mars 1942. Il entre dans le cadre des mesures de représailles annoncées par le MBF et organisées par le Sipo-SD. Les Chemins de fer ont un rôle essentiel dans le processus de déportation. L'historien Raul Hilberg considère que les cheminots ont été "indispensables" dans ce processus (25). Par ailleurs, il faut noter la faiblesse quantitative de ces transports spéciaux, vers les camps d'extermination, dans la masse des transports ferroviaires : 3 000 convois de déportation de Juifs ont été mis en route entre octobre 1941 et octobre 1944 par la Reichsbahn, sur l'ensemble des territoires occupés ou contrôlés, ce qui, au total, équivaut à 15% du nombre de trains de marchandises roulant en une journée sur son réseau.
DEBRA ,   USA   (06.07.06)
11. Alex
Marcel Abel ,   Thoiry, France   (06.07.06)
Thank you four your valuable, open, incisive, sincere posting. I said I would stop sending messages except for thanking friendly, comforting talkbacks which are so precious in hard times. Thank you again, you too Ynet for publishing.
12. No French train to Auschwitz was ever late. All on time.
Alan ,   SA   (06.07.06)
13. Hiram Al Masry, Tel Aviv
Marcel Abel ,   Thoiry, France   (06.07.06)
Thank you, Sir, I have been moved by your so knowledgeable message . In the name of my so missed father and in my name, please let me thank you again. I know he would have been so happy to meet you, sharing with you his souvenirs as a modest, but courageous French railway engineer who has made much for his Jewish "friends". He was a peaceful "cheminot" decorated after war for his resistance against the occupying forces and his deeds to help persecuted people, especially Jews. My father may rest in peace. Thank you, Sir, thank you for your precious message. Yours repectfully. The Lord bless you. Marcel Abel.
14. #3- You are the stupid and greedy one
Arie   (06.07.06)
Just because a murderer has aged should allow him the luxury of dying in peace? The "damn french" as you admit openly and happily provided Jewish fodder for the ovens to the nazis. The sad part is that the french butchers were not charged at Nuremberg as they should have been!
15. #6-It is you that should beg our forgiveness
Arie   (06.07.06)
The FACT that the french raidied Jewish schools and transported the kids to the nazis willfully is a proven fact; the FACT that your "war heroes" were openly in league with the nazi aim of declaring France judenrein is proven fact. It is you that should be begging the Jews for forgiveness. The fine was not about money since it is a negligible amount-the fine was about accepting the truth ---something you have proven you are unwilling to do to this day!
16. #12-
Arie   (06.07.06)
A testament to the french devotions and priorities!
17. #3 Leo...
DR ,   Florida, USA   (06.07.06)
Maybe if you had a family member who was still alive to tell you stories of the holocaust, you would feel differently??? There are still many people who remember what happened and still carry the trauma to this day. Can you look my grandma in the eye and tell her she deserves nohing??? I doubt it!!!
18. #4-occupied does not mean acceptance
Arie   (06.07.06)
Was france occupied by germany or did they willfully surrender to what the petain regime hoped would be a "greater alliance" removing the Jews is open to conjecture and debate. That does not, however, justify the open and willful cooperation the french gave the nazis. Their actions were not those of a vanquished enemy but those of an ally seeking the same goals!
19. #14 to Arie, an armchair zaddik
Leo ,   Paris   (06.07.06)
It would be nice to see you once heroically saving lives of innocent strangers at the gun point of merciless occupiers. You so quickly seized an opportunity to spit on the whole nation for not being all fearless heros in saving others, may be you would tell us how much have you done to help victims of the recent genosides in Rwnda and Darfur, for example? Or that just happen to be not your buisness?
20. #17
Leo ,   Paris   (06.07.06)
Read the article, there is no grandma and no murders here. Just bunch of shaimless well-do lowyers and politicians, who seized the opportunity to pocket some money on Holokost pretext, by making to pay those, who had little to do with the actual genocide.
21. Jew transport france WW2
michael clark ,   canada   (06.07.06)
I realise the jews were targeted during ww2 and went to death camps, but how could a judge or anyone say and uphold that the french railroad is responsible? I respect the fact that they were targeted by the nazis but so were other peoples and I also think its time for the jews to stop there crying about it as its starting to look like they are only doing so for pity and compensation.
22. Arie
Marcel Abel ,   Thoiry, France   (06.07.06)
Read Nr 8 and stop saying ALL French were Nazis. You are full of hate and the worst anti-Christian I ever met : it's so simply in your eyes, I have not even the basic rights inherent to all God's Creatures. You already attacked me in the past on several occasions but it's now time to tell you that you are as ignorant of French Railway governed by Germans during the War II as a baby could. Stop insulting my father as it has been officially proven he had deserved honour and respect from France and other countries ... As for me I was born in 1945 old enough to ask you for forgiveness : whatever I do, you will be there and ask every day if I have asked forgiveness. Stupid and irrelevant. First ask my father for forgiveness and I will ask the Lord have mercy on you for your outrageous behaviour and libel. You could not look him in his eyes and say him what you said. As for me the matter is closed and you are not my enemy even if my very existence as a French and as a Catholic is a crime to you. I would say with Aristophanes : « Wise men learn much from their enemies. » Aristophanes in The Birds.
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