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US: Israel trip may cost state employee his job
Yitzhak Benhorin
Published: 06.06.06, 22:55
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30 Talkbacks for this article
1. Gotta watch out for them Pollards...
GI JOE ,   USA   (06.07.06)
2. Why is an American wearing the suit of another army?
Ellen Prescott ,   Southsea, Hampshire   (06.06.06)
His loyalty is justly in doubt. Just as it would be for a Russian-American to be wearing a Russian-Army suit, or a Muslim-American wearing a Saudi Arabian or a Palestinian-Fatah army suit.
3. Ellen: good quesiton on why wearing a suit 1/2
Steve ,   USA   (06.07.06)
B"H Let us think about this game for a little bit. The United Nations guarentees that Jews are able to settle the entire Palestine. But when it comes down to it, Europe is a big sponsor of violence against Jews through direct and indirect support of enemies who declare that they want to eliminate the Jewish faith from the region. (See http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3218094,00.html ). Research at Yale has text of the Hamas charter translated (See http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/hamas.htm ). The Euros have arrived in support of the people that elected a regime bent on murder of Jews. (See http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3259724,00.html ). To quote from that Yale translation of the Hamas charter: BEGIN QUOTE: The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders. It goes back to 1939, to the emergence of the martyr Izz al-Din al Kissam and his brethren the fighters, members of Moslem Brotherhood. It goes on to reach out and become one with another chain that includes the struggle of the Palestinians and Moslem Brotherhood in the 1948 war and the Jihad operations of the Moslem Brotherhood in 1968 and after. Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem). END QUOTE The point is that the force that in practice holds control of the government east of Olmert's fence espouses "The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him." Hamas is about murder of Jews. As a Jew obligated to perform duties for G-d in the Land of Israel, how can one not take sides in this matter? How can one remain neutral when there are two military powers in the region, each with its dogma at war with the other? It is not just a matter of dressing up in a military uniform, in a vacuum. It is that an active war has been persued against the Jews for mellenia in various lands, and that the Jews have a right to live in that and any land as a religion and not just as a nationality. Those religious rights have been improperly abrogated by the nations aside from Israel too, in that war against not just Israel, but the more serious struggle against Jews of other nationalities living or visiting the Land of Israel. I myself would find it very compromising to have to accept a different citizenship in order to assert my rights and the rights of people of my religion to live anywhere without encoutering a discrimination that is based solely on the faith practiced. But this is a choice of either follow the rules of the rulers of the land or not be admitted to live there, which is an injustice in this case. What I am getting at is that because the choices are so stark, the wearing of that uniform may not be an oath of loyalty to the Israeli government or army, but rather the necessary step required of the established government of Jews in order to visit the soil intermediate-term, whereas the Arab governments altogether abrogate the rights of Jews to live on the Holy Land or even visit long-term, independent of nationality. In Gaza, American Jews are not welcome even though they may not be Israeli.
4. Man in green, part 2/2
Steve ,   USA   (06.07.06)
B"H I am not the State Department to say that this would be grounds for dismissal. But at the same breath, I find it shocking that the State Department would fire a Jew for living in the Land of Israel while not fighting in its military. His role was passive as described in the article, supplying parts which any car dealership does. It is not like he was attending training camps for military persuit. The wearing of a uniform may not indicate loyalty, but rather understanding that rules must be adhered to in order to live in a place. I personally think that the gentleman in question has no current ties with the Israeli government that would warrant overdue concern. I think this gentleman very much opposes the current authority of Israeli government over him or else he would become a long-term citizen under it. Therefore, I do not think in this case there is a problem of dual-loyalties. He cut his ties with his own family for the sake of his loyalty to the United States! What more can you ask of him? Sadly, from the article text, I think this man has been condemned by the State Departnment for his G-d given obligations to live and observe service in the land of his ancestors. I think it is the interests of the State Department to be careful in separating out those who are adherants of the State of Israel from those visiting the land for a year or two and jumping hoopes in order to assert their rights to not be discriminated against solely on the basis of their religious practice. An American can easily visit Europe for a few years. There is no reason that the nations of the world should prevent Jews of various nationalities from doing the same within the entire United Nations Mandate of Palestine as is the current condition as evidenced by the threats to employment documented here as well as the documented threats of the Hamas group that has been centered in the region with Euros in-hand. Ellen, why do you not ask your local European governments who is supplying these Euros to Hamas. I think this is far more damming then the decades-old picture of a man dressed up in a uniform in order to live safely while visiting his family.
5. Doubtful loyalties?
Joe Israeli ,   Israel   (06.07.06)
Are the UK citizens who wage academic boycotts of Israel really loyal UK citizens, or are their true allegiances is to a non-existent marxist-leninist state? You have to wonder and worry about the Ellens who prefer theocratic dictatorships where racism and misogyny are the rule. Isn't it strange how Ellen picked her examples? Russian? Saudi? Palestinian? What, no Commonwealth examples? Hmmmm.... what flag flies in Southsea? The Union Jack or the hammer and sickle?
6. dual loyalty???
bob kirk ,   los angeles/ eilat   (06.07.06)
The State Dept /CIA and US government are not loyal to their Jewish employees. It is well past the time for US Jews to reconsider their choices; whether to live here and face job discrimination by their own government or to move to Israel and live in freedom.
7. No doubt there are muslim CIA agents with pix of bum louden
Bunnie Meyer ,   Santa Monica, CA   (06.07.06)
8. CELEBRATING 9/11 at the FBI
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (06.07.06)
Israel, our extremely loyal and trustworthy ally, is treated like an enemy. The treatment of Jews by the U.S. government is shameful. It is NOT the JEWISH people who threaten America with death and destruction!!! Celebrating 9/11 at the FBI By Paul Sperry FrontPageMagazine.com | February 11, 2004 When linguist Sibel Dinez Edmonds showed up for her first day of work at the FBI, a week after the 9-11 attacks, she expected to find a somber atmosphere. Instead, she was offered cookies filled with dates from party bowls set out in the room where other Middle Eastern linguists with top-secret security clearance translate terror-related communications. She knew the dessert is customarily served in the Middle East at weddings, births and other celebrations, and asked what the happy occasion was. To her shock, she was told the Arab linguists were celebrating the terrorist attacks on America, as if they were some joyous event. Right in front of her supervisor, one translator cheered: "It's about time they got a taste of what they've been giving the Middle East."... http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=12138
9. SAUDIS SPREAD HATE Through U.S. MOSQUES
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (06.07.06)
We are in the Third World War of Global Jihad. Taqiyya-deception and peace agreements are part of Islamic WAR strategy; signed until Islamo-Fascists become strong enough to wage all-out war against the hated non-Muslim infidels. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42603 GLOBAL JIHAD Report: Saudis spread hate through U.S. mosques Propaganda against Jews, Christians 'mainstreamed within our borders' January 29, 2005 The 89-page report by Freedom House's Center for Religious Freedom, "Saudi Publications on Hate Ideology Fill American Mosques," concludes the Saudi government propaganda examined reflects a "totalitarian ideology of hatred that can incite to violence." * Various Saudi government publications gathered for the study, most of which are in Arabic, assert it is a religious obligation for Muslims to hate Christians and Jews... * The documents stress that when Muslims are in the lands of the unbelievers, they must behave as if on a mission behind enemy lines. Either they are there to acquire new knowledge and make money to be later employed in the jihad against the infidels, or they are there to proselytize the infidels until at least some convert to Islam..." U.S. leaders declare Saudi Arabia is America's friend and a key ally in the war on terror. As Saudi Arabia incites to hate and jihad against America's Christians and Jews, the U.S. government defining Saudi Arabia as America's friend, strongly indicates Americans and Israelis have a grim future ahead of them.
10. ELLEN PRESCOTT AKA FATIMA
JOHN HENRY ,   CANADA   (06.07.06)
YOUR NAME APPEARS ALL THE TIME ON THIS SITE ,I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING POSITIVE COMING FROM YOU YOUR LIFE MUST BE VERY BORING BACK IN THE UK .PLEASE FIND A MEANINGFUL HOBBY I PITY YOU
11. I agree with Ellen #2, for once.
howard ,   pacific coast, usa   (06.07.06)
A visit to Israel is one thing. Volunteering to serve in a non-US military is a completely different matter. The headline for this story is very misleading; it implies that visiting Israel was the problem, whereas the problem appears to be that he served (as a gofer, or whatever) in the IDF. It would be equally a problem if a CIA or State Dept. official served (as a gofer or whatever) in the PA, the Russian military, the Chinese military, the Pakistani military or the French military, unless this was done specifically at the behest of the US government. I DO disagree on one thing, Ellen. Fatah is not an army. It is a bunch of terrorists and gangsters who sometimes like to dress up as soldiers.
12. To Ellen
Alderabande ,   Montreal   (06.07.06)
He is an American, working for the State Department and the CIA, and he was ready to sever ties with his family ot keep his job: I think this is enough to prove that his loyalty lies with the US. He is also a Jew, and he feels an attachment to Israel. So he went an did civilian volunteering on an army base. It doesn't mean he had dual loyalties, it just meant he had an attachment to both countries. Now, when Canadians and British cadets have joint camps, and they wear the same uniform, is this a sign of dual loyalty? There are many wonderful things in Israel, and many things we can criticize because we don't pretend it's a perfect country. But systematic bashing is just delegitimizing your point. Many young Jews nowadays go with Birthright and visit Israel. This policy is discriminatory and absolutely unjust because it treats every single Jew as a potential traitor just because they have ties with Israel as well.
13. kind of ridiculous
wanda ,   montreal   (06.07.06)
yeah, that's just silly. a rule changed on you, and you're held liable? though, i'm not surprised people want to play down the israeli presence in the ASD.. they're just cracking down here.
14. This is not about dual citizenship
Arie   (06.06.06)
It is about the inherent anti-Semitism permeating the US State Department as it always had. There are Americans that hold duality with Italy, England and other European states that are NEVER questioned. But heaven help the Jew! The US State Department has ALWAYS been riddled with Jew haters. Obviously little has changed
15. Read a history book Ellen
Yosef ,   NY, USA   (06.07.06)
Americans, a generous and selfless people have a long history of serving in foreign armies. From WW1, the French Foreign Legion, the Spanish Civil War, the men that joined the RAF to save England and the Flying Tigers that fought to keep supply lines open in China. This is no different.
16. "dual loyalties"
marc vernick ,   westfield usa   (06.07.06)
A trip to Israel 23 years ago, which was approved by the CIA at the time, hardly shows any dual loyalties! I do not understand the issue that the state department is having. Israel is America's most loyal ally, voting with America more often in the UN than any other nation. Israel almost acts as if it is either a vassal state of the US, or trying to become the 51st state! I guess the arabists are still in control of the state department, and are still cowtowing to the oil rich countries.
17. #2
jason ,   usa   (06.07.06)
why is a american wearing the duit of another army? that was 23 years ago
18. Their loss
Gilan ,   J'lem, Izzie   (06.07.06)
Daniel, my advice: tell those pig-headed Americans where to stick their security, and come home. Here you'll be celebrated, honoured and appreciated.
19. Hirsch and the State Dept
L reik ,   Bet Yannay Israel   (06.07.06)
Not if the countries are allies
20. #2; You are correct...
(06.07.06)
Cancel the citizenship of the US Marines and USN/USAF pilots that come to train here. They meet Israeli instructors here, who knows what kind of brainwash they pass while they are here?
21. Anti-Semetic Actions by the US
Eric ,   Jerusalem & Denver   (06.07.06)
Israel is, and has always been, a friend to the United States. A Jew supporting the Jewish cause is not a threat to US security. It is possible to be a pro-Israel Jew and a good American. People are losing jobs for being Jewish and having Jewish family in Israel. Whats next, losing jobs in all government positions? Universities? This is clearly anti-Semitsm in the government.
22. #2....unreal
Elliott ,   Tel Aviv   (06.07.06)
Ellen, your posts continue to impress. Here's a fact about the article perhaps you missed: it was 23 years ago! does this have any impact on your analysis? are you the same person, with the same beliefs, the same dreams, same wishes, same goals, same anything as you were 23 years ago? let's all hope not.
23. You're all missing an important point
Jeff ,   Herzliya   (06.07.06)
The entire article is based on one person's -- Hirsch's -- point of view. This is not exactly a balanced article. Would the U.S. government REALLY pull someone's clearance ONLY for an old photo in a foreign military uniform? Despite the virtual total unqualified support of nearly everything Israeli in the U.S. government, is it truly likely that this is just another case of rampant anti-semitism in the White House, Foggy Bottom, etc.? Mightn't there be more to the story? Should we take everything Hirsch says, who obviously has his own agenda and axe to grind, at face value? And, of course, predictably, as was intended, a story as one-sided as this becomes fodder for those who scream "anti-semitism!" at every opportunity. Doesn't a story like like make light of, and devalue, TRUE anti-semistism? If the full truth were known, and Ynet was interested in truth, rather than just whipping up people's anger and sense of persecution, we would see a picture far different from the one Hirsch paints.
24. Dual loyalties!
jason white ,   afula,israel   (06.07.06)
The state dept.,the c.i.a. and the d.h.s. have dual loyalties.They are actually more loyal to the enemies of the United States than they are to the states. The best plan for the president of the U.S. would be to close all three and start from scratch.
25. Ellen Prescott: Are you normal?
Adam Shapiro ,   Cape Town, SA   (06.07.06)
Ellen, do you honestly believe the drivel that you are spewing onto this web page? The Americans have fought against the Russians before, where dual loyalties were indeed a problem and the moslems performed possibly the biggest terrorist attack on American soil that has ever been performed. How you can liken this to the Israeli army or any Jew serving in the Israeli army is beyond me. The Israelis and Jews have always been loyal to the USA. You need to wake up and see where the USA's true friends lie.
26. Ellen Prescott
gm ,   south africa   (06.07.06)
Some UK and USA muslims DO wear uniforms of Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Al-Qaida and Fatah. They militant/terrorists threaten civlians of all types, unlike the IDF. The way you carry on i suspect you are one of these people.
27. U.S. LEADERS PREFER ISLAM for AMERICA'S SCHOOL CHILDREN
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (06.07.06)
For over 200 years, people came to America for freedom. We are no longer free. America's public schools, infamous for their hostility to Christianity and Judaism, are forcibly indoctrinating our children into Islam. Breaking G-D's commandment: "You shall have no other gods before Me", America's children are being taught to give praise to a god, we and our ancestors, never knew. As American soldiers fight and die in Iraq, we have lost our freedom in America. Teaching Johnny About Islam Posted 5/19/2006 Education: In our brave new schools, Johnny can't say the pledge, but he can recite the Quran. Yup, the same court that found the phrase "under God" unconstitutional now endorses Islamic catechism in public school. In a recent federal decision that got surprisingly little press, even from conservative talk radio, California's 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled it's OK to put public-school kids through Muslim role-playing exercises, including: Reciting aloud Muslim prayers that begin with "In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful . . . ." Memorizing the Muslim profession of faith: "Allah is the only true God and Muhammad is his messenger." Chanting "Praise be to Allah" in response to teacher prompts. Professing as "true" the Muslim belief that "The Holy Quran is God's word." Giving up candy and TV to demonstrate Ramadan, the Muslim holy month of fasting. Designing prayer rugs, taking an Arabic name and essentially "becoming a Muslim" for two full weeks. Parents of seventh-graders, who after 9-11 were taught the pro-Islamic lessons as part of California's world history curriculum, sued under the First Amendment ban on religious establishment. They argued, reasonably, that the government was promoting Islam. But a federal judge appointed by President Clinton told them in so many words to get over it, that the state was merely teaching kids about another "culture." So the parents appealed. Unfortunately, the most left-wing court in the land got their case. The 9th Circuit, which previously ruled in favor of an atheist who filed suit against the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, upheld the lower court ruling... http://www.investors.com/editorial/IBDArticles.asp?artsec=20&artnum=3&issue=20060519
28. The twisted priorities of our government
Laura   (06.07.06)
muslims declare war and attack the U.S., so as a result JEWS are under suspicion. It all makes sense to me.
29. Someone should inform the U.S. government
Laura   (06.07.06)
WE ARE NOT AT WAR WITH ISRAEL, WE ARE AT WAR WITH MUSLIMS.
30. idf uniform
Robin ,   Brooklyn, USA   (06.08.06)
Israel has traditionally been a true defender of Democracy and freedom of religion. This is until recently. Any loyal American who really understands what Volunteers for Israel is all about would understand that a volunteer for the IDF is in essense a boost to the American defense forces which have common goals such as freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Since the Gaza disengagement, the uniform of the IDF is soiled with activities that are antidemocratic and indeed they are acting in ways that are antidemocratic, immoral and ultimately harmful to the American freedoms we so much enjoy by enabling terror organizations such as Hamas to take over. It is no wonder that all of a sudden seeing the uniform is bad press. However 23 years ago this was not the case and the IDF uniform is to be seen as truly one that is a defender of America and her liberties along with the Land of Israel and all of her beauty.
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