Always funny to see how the settlers and their supporters start to worry about human rights only when they believe that their own rights and privileges are endangered. We never heard them complain when - often in order to ensure and continue the same prerogatives of the settlers who are now crying Oy Gevalt! - the rights of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were trampled as a direct result of the occupation.

"Occupation"? Right! The Arabs are occupying large segments of Eretz Yisroel, the G-d-given land of the Jews.

Well, the tables are turning against the settlers - finally. Howeveer, David Bedein is mealy-mouthed in extremis. What is this nonsensical expression "the people who live in Judea who are not Israeli citizens" - does he mean the Palestinians? What a lengthy circumlocution he uses to avoid saying the word Palestinians. A better circumlocution would be "the original and legal inhabitants of the the area". Perhaps the easiest solution would be for the settlers to get out - to get off the lands they stole, to take their Uzi's back to green line Israel where they can only threaten the tame Israeli Arabs - who according to other articles in your august journal - live in simplicity and filth because they don't know about "budgets" - neglecting to mention that the Israeli Arab sector has been discriminated against for almost 60 years. So, Ynetnewsers who live on occupied land - get with it - pack your backs, move back to Israel, stop threatening the Palestinians and then screaming for help. The whole tenor of the article - that the settlers are discriminated against is soooooooooo ridiculous. Next thing we'll be reading that the inhabitants of Efrat cannot join golf clubs run by people from Carmiel. More discrimination. And millions of Palestinians are starving, suffering, unable to move around the imaginery territory of Judea.

Why all the fuss just get out of the West Bank and go to where you belong to Israel. Do it now or you will soon be provided you with a free sticker that says "JUST GOT DISENGAGED" courtesy of Kadima

Beautifully said. The Israeli government is stepping all over the so called "settlers", who were actually encouraged and given financial incentives from the government to live where they do. Olmert, the modern day Machiavelli, is riding on the internal conflict of the country, between the religious Zionist and secular sectors, in order to advance his own corrupt political agenda. Who is accountable for the uprooting of countless families from their homes which ruins their entire livelihoods? As we can see, definitely not Olmert who views these people as worthless political casualties in his scheme of power, control and money. That's the problem in this country, there is no accountability. If Olmert's plan brings improvement, he'll go down in the history books as a great leader. If his plan doesn't work though, he'll just be another failed Israeli politician (probably living somewhere else with his family and inflated bank account). Come to think of it, the word accountability doesn't even exist in the Hebrew lexicon.

Some settlers do stupid things like damage Palestinian property and commit crimes of violence (a very small minority), but saying that the settlers and not the government are responsible for the violation of "the rights of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians" is simply ridiculous. These human rights violations are the RESULT, NOT THE CAUSE, of the necessity to protect Israeli citizens like you and me from terrorism and they are the direct responsibility of the Israeli government, not the "settlers". I am talking about economic hardships and freedom of movement restrictions. These are the violations of Palestinian human rights, and again, legally speaking, the security of a country takes precedence over personal freedoms. Don't follow the herd mentality and blame the "settlers" for the problems in the PA, and don't expect these problems to be solved once the "settlers" are removed. That's just naive.

What discrimination against the Arabs for almost 60 years? Were we discriminating against them when they launched a war of annihilation against us in 1948? Or what about in '67 and '73, were we discriminating against them then too? The so-called "occupation" is a direct result of the fight for Israel's existence over the past 58 years. It is a result, not a cause, of Arab and Palestinian belligerence. I suppose you would have preferred for Israel not to defend itself in these wars and in subsequent attacks against it. You are as standard as they come. You and your ilk think Israel should be the Arabs' punching bag. I just hope one day someone uses you as their punching bag so you know how it feels.

1st - it's hardly worth bothering to answer your hyperbolic "what discrimination against the Arabs?" 2nd - your question "were we disriminating against them when they launched a war of annihilation in 1948? begs two questions. It was not a war of annihilation - but a war to prevent themselves being annihilated - which they lost - resulting in the Yishuv's annihilation of hundreds and hundreds of Palestinian villages and towns plus the hundreds of thousands of refugees. Taking that as a starting point - with a few hundred thousand Palestinians left inside Israel, any fool can see that they were discriminated against from the word "go". So - you can try and justify the discrimination, you can try and justify the land seizures, the expulsions, the bombing raids, the targeted assassinations (extrajudicial murders), the eradication of a whole Palestinian way of life including mosques galore bulldozed into rubble - but to pretend that there is no discrimination is simply to live in a fool's world. You just need to ask yourself - could you live as a Palestinian in the West Bank for twenty minutes without being subjected to some humiliating form of treatment by your Israelis brothers?

Just ask Amnesty International or the United Nations Human Rights Commission and you will definitely get "no" for an answer.

First of all, my "what discrimination against the Arabs" was me being cynical, but you chose to throw it in your post to make it sound better, which I accept. So, to make it clear for you, I know there is discrimination against Arabs in this country, just like there's discrimination against religious Jews, oriental Jews, blacks, whites, rich, and poor. It's the same discrimination that exists in good ol' England and the rest of the world too, but I guess for you that's just a little detail that doesn't fit your double-standard propaganda. Secondly, you say that the war in '48 wasn't a war of annihilation? Let me quote for you the secretary-general of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, on the eve of Israel's war of independence when we got attacked by every neighboring Arab country: "This will be a war of EXTERMINATION and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades". You see, from day one the Arabs have wanted to annihilate us, and this is even before the so-called "occupation"! One more fact about the war of '48. Israel did not kick out the Arabs that were living here, they left on their own accord. It was only a tiny minority that was removed from their homes after the war to insure more secure borders for Israel. History proves we needed them. If you don't believe me about the Arabs leaving on their own, check this out: http://www.jewishstudentscanada.ca/voice/story10.html I'm not the one ranting here Rustum, it's you. I never tried to justify discrimination, but I do justify Israeli security, at all costs. And about your question of if I could live as a Palestinian in the West Bank for twenty minutes without being subjected to some humiliating form of treatment by my Israeli brothers; I would be lucky if I could live in the West Bank for twenty minutes period before being lynched, but then again, forget about that, it doesn't fit your agenda.

it's good to see that the jews learned something from the Nazi's....maybe if we label them, everything will be better!! come on people, wake up!! learn to live together. Racism = FEAR of other!! PEACE and LOVE!!

Who is us in 1948??? Your family most probably came to Palestine from Russia or something not too long before '48!!! So "us" is a term used for the peopel that lived there and not a bunch of schizzos believing that it's yahweh's promised land!!! Remember it was giong to be argentina but then yahweh changed his mind I guess and picked Palestine. Ciao

Arabs are the original people of Judea??? That is a biggest oxymoron I ever heard.

Pack me bags and head back where? Hey, we're just finishing the plans for the clubhouse for our par 3 course. I mean, we're reasonable types who would never consider wasting all that water on a full 18 hole par 72 course. Hey Rustum, I'll buy you a Guinnes and give you a free history lesson about "occupation". And Yoni, foget about that par 3 at Kibbut Ga'ash and come drive out a bucket of balls here in the Judean Hills. In fact, Yoni, if you remember any of your high school history you could probably take Rustum aside and explain to him that "Judea" is about as imaginary as "Palestine" is. Both of you , of course, are suckers for the well-oiled Palestininan media spin called "the occupation". Occupied from whom? The British? The Ottomans? Keep going back past the Mamluks, who occupied it from the Crusaders, the various Muslims? who occupied it from the Byzantines, who occupied it from the Romans, who occupied it from the Hasmoneans, who liberated it from the Greeks (hellenists, macedonians, etc) , who occupied it from the Persians, who occupied it from the Babylonians who occupied it from ....Jewish Settlers of Judea! Imaginary shmimaginary. Gosh Rustum, there's no need to maintain your vocal ignorance... just take the tube to the British Museam and when you walk around this time, READ the little cards beside the displays. BTW, what's your handicap?

I fail to see any logic in your statements, unless of course your position is that Israel is not entitled to its homeland. If this is the case, you are simply an anti-semitic intruder. The published literature, including UN documents, clearly shows that the Arabs states initiated the conflicts that resulted in their subsequent loss of territories. But of course, if you don't believe that Jews should exist in this or any other place, your statments amount to nothing more than sour grapes over the Arabs losing their wars of annihilation. Finally, you must be kidding about the farce you refer to as Palestinians being "the original and legal inhabitants of the the area". Do you honestly think that a new nation of non-poeple can be conjured up from nomads? If you want to know who the true owners this land are, try reading the Bible.

How terribly sad, Israel a nation born as a direct result of Jews forced to wear the Star of David as a sign of shame and considered a stateless people, are reinstituting the same principle against Jews who they publicly proclaim both in deeds and supported by the Israeli Judiciary as they “have no Civil Rights” This same Jewish leadership wants to confiscate their homes and property without proper compensation or adequate housing that is in any way shape or form is comparable to or commensurate with their current living conditions. How have our dreams of being a proud nation that protects and defends the Jewish adherence world wide sunk to this low level, This decree if enacted, is the beginning of the end of Jewish freedom throughout the world since the Jews themselves institute special identification against a segment of their population (no matter how lofty their reasoning may be) so why should any nation hesitate to reintroduce the Proud Jewish symbol to designate and identify Jews as a “Farfichta Jude”

Well how about you get out of Jerusalem and go back to where you belong in Mecca or anywhere else in the Muslim word. I suggest you do it now unless you want a sticker that says "just got transfered" courtesy of the G-D of Israel... Great double standards. Arabs can live where they want, but not Jews...

By saying us, I am referring to my nation, the Jewish people. If you have a problem with that, well, I don't really care. And you have no idea what my familly background is, or my theological beliefs, so just shut up before you swallow the foot you have already put in your mouth.

The israelis are settlers in the palestinian territories not because they are jewish but because they are the citizens of the occupying power, jews, christians or moslems whatever! Their presence there is illegal. So this small problem is a good way to remind them this small detail : they have nothing to do there. Period.

B"H To quote: US Consul Wilcox responded quickly and straightforwardly, and with no emotion: "If you live where you live, then you have no human rights and no civil liberties." He invoked the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention, which forbids nations that conquer other lands in war to settle their citizens in those lands. To question: When an American citizen travels in Europe, he is accorded full rights in the European tradition. If he moves to Israel, he is accorded no rights in these territories. Certainly the good Ambassador must have spoken to Americans living in these regions, as American law applies which forbids discrimination on the basis of religion. America does not administer these territories; these are territories of Israel and not the United States to be talking in such a fashion to non-citizens. But why is he denying civil rights here on the basis on where a Jew lives? Is this a US Statement that a Jew does not have American rights and that the government can impose "no civil rights" on an American citizen? This is why the Alyiah process needs amendment. Non-resident cards should be made available for Jews who wish to visit Israel for a year or two as a statement of civil rights. To impose citizenship on Jews of other countries violates their civil rights in their host countries, who claim that after the Jew has visited for a year or two that he is a citizen of a different country and therefore should not be granted full rights in the United States. Non-resident reigstration clarifies that situation. In England, there is no such discrimination for an American working for a year because this non-resident status is clear and there is no such discrimination. What needs to happen is that the residents of Judea and Sumarea need to clarify the work-permit process which is the nearest equivalent for those outside Israel and to offer jobs to United States Jews and facilitate permits. These jobs can even require a deposit (to return the individual to the United States if the relationship does not work out), and do not have to pay huge salaries but need to support families. Israel prevents not just its citizens from moving in this territory, but also Jewish American citizens from doing so without this permit process. A visiting American citizen would not fall under the Geneva conventions, since he does not have the citizenship of his host country. A two year job permit upholds civil rights and keeps law and order in the area, as American law holds over Americans, including the American constitutional right to bear arms to maintain peace on the land an American purchases. This is going to help considerably, as the American Jews are generally very honest and hard wroking individuals, committed to helping local communities peacefully flourish.

B"H This term "Jewish Settler" is a false description of those living outside of Omert's fence. Jewish Settlment has been made illegal already. Jews from outside the fence are barred from moving and living there for a year or two UNLESS risking giving up their host country citizenship. It is not like England or Europe where a Jew can settle for a bit; without a special work permit that is rarely granted, Jewish settlement on the sole basis of religion is effectively impossible as I understand it. These are full Israeli citizens who live on this land that is a territory of Israel. This is territory purchased and rightly theirs to develop. But as for Jews, who are only Jews, these are prevented from settling this land through Israeli bureacracy. Now, let us get more Jewish settlement. Provide Jews work permits to live and develop this area for a year or two; on the basis of Jewish religion do not discriminate against those who wish to contribute. Stop preventing Jewish settlement of these regions!

What business do you have living in Tel-Aviv which Arabs call "Occupied Territory" which we regained in 48?

B"H Josh, This is one of the best talkbacks I have seen in terms of reference source material! This is great writing. Maybe YNET can hire you to write the Torah commentary again! In any case as the government of Israel positions the same disaster of refugee status upon Jews living east of Olmert's fence, as it has hoisted on those living south of Olmert's fence, I think your reference bears witness to the scenario in place. http://www.jewishstudentscanada.ca/voice/story10.html We can just substitute the word Jew for Arab and I think the scenario is looking very much like what the Arab governments promised the Arabs with their evacuation. Those Arabs concerned with peace should also be concerned that the Jews are being asked to not settle the land east of Olmert's fence. It is not so different whether Jews are permitted to live in this area or whether Arabs are. It is time for a true Jewish right of return, without condition of Israeli citizenship! Hamas, ammend your charter for the right of return of the Jews, on the sole basis of religion, because this land is G-d's Promised Land, for the Jews to perform their obligated service to G-d! Israel, permit non-resident status for Jews to fulfill their obligations who are citizens of different countries. Preparations for war on both Arab and Jewish sides are not going to undermine us peaceful Jews and Arabs who want Jewish settlment to blossom in this land and to support true peace within it!

Unless and until Jewish nationalist pride returns in spades, more and more violations of civil human rights will be heaped upon Jews in their homeland. In an effort to not only marginalize, but to incrementally undermine their resolve to live in Judea & Samaria, the regime is playing a game of upmanship. Under the absurd lie of 'security' they are attempting to break the spirits and the ties of these loyal Jews to the land of Israel. If security were the reason why stickers were needed, and if security were the reason why Jews in Israel are being kept off roads (designated only for Arabs,apartheid against Jews, not against Arabs in Israel) then why are Jews stuck in traffic with Arabs for hours due to these sticker checkings, when an Arab has all the time in the world to shoot at their cars? Being a Jewish nationalist is dangerous to both your physical and psychological health in the land of Israel.

this is horrid. the last time the Jewish people were forced to wear an identifying mark was an atrocity... Israel was begun for freedom of the Jews, nothing else needs to be said.

Shai, where did you make this up from? Illegal? Are you an international law legal expert? What recognized laws are being broken? Are you parroting the "you can't acquire lands by force" thing? In which case, my disinformed friend, I'm sitting on Jewish land that was illegaly obtained by the Arabs in a war - that means that they were the illegal occupiers between 1948 and 1967 (not to mention their war crimes when they violated international law and slaughtered Jewish prisoners of war). You're right! It's the Palestinians that have nothing to do here! Period! And yes, so far as they're concerned you too, Shai in Tel Aviv, are an illegal settler.

Ari I am not allowed to live in any muslim country and even so my chioce is here, my family is traced back here to 4th century. Not long enough but hey cut me some slack. It is not about GoD it is about common sense, open your eyes.

Quote: "Come to think of it, the word accountability doesn't even exist in the Hebrew lexicon." My Milon gives: 'nesh'ah be achara'ut'~carrying responsability. Individual or collective responsability for your actions. In a way it's sad that the word 'mitnachel'~settler has aquired such bad connotations in the last decades, in the past(pre 1967) they were 'chalutzim'~pioneers settling the land in true Zionist fashion. Since 1967 religious Zionism(an oxymoron) has driven the settlement of Judea & Shomron, combined with people looking for cheap housing. Large tracts of land were designated state land, in Israel with absentee owners, in Judea & Shomron with negation of ownership of present owners. Reversing govt policy over 3 decades will be difficult and will open up claims for compensation by individual settlers against the govt who gave them incentives to go there. The present govt of the state of Israel has to honour previous agreements to it's citizens and to other govt's. I don't know if Olmerts ' hitcanesut'(~convergence) plan fits the bill.

1-Leave UK and join your brethen in Jenin. Does Iehuda sound similar to Iahud ("jew" in your native arab) or is it just Allah making a mistake on which land is allotted to whom??? 2- treat your impotence somewhere else. Ynet is no clinic good bye oximoron

BRAINWASHED HAVENT GOT YOUR OWN MIND ALWAYS REPEATING WHAT YOU HEAR WHEN YOU WILL BEABLE TO DO WHAT YOU WANT WITHOUT YOUR FAMILY DICTATING TO YOU THEN YOU WILL BE A MAN. AT THE MOMENT YOU ARE A COWARD.