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Gaza operation: Legitimate self-defense?
Aviram Zino
Published: 28.06.06, 18:37
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1. So what is a proportional reaction?
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (06.28.06)
If the Allied has been limited to "proportional reaction" during WW2 there would have been no victory over the Axis.
2. this should be called operation strawberries and cream
(06.28.06)
idf is being way too nice.
3. The world never excepts Israel's right to self defense
Danny ,   california+Nahal Oz   (06.28.06)
4. POW? Does this mean Hamas is at war?
Danny ,   Ontario   (06.28.06)
5. The world never think's Israel has a right to self-defense
Danny ,   California+Nahal Oz   (06.28.06)
6. Only Force
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (06.28.06)
It is a horrible reality, but the only thing which guarantees quiet and peace between us and the Arabs is for us to clobber them. Talking nicely - seen as a sign of weakness. Signing agreements - just a tactic for them to gain time and concessions. The Arab (Moslem, if you will, too) believes he is either up or he is down. He can never accept a non-Moslem as an equal. When he is up, watch out - he will try to crush us. When he is down, watch out - for he will try to fight for his pride and honor even though he knows he cannot win; which against the Jews, he surely cannot do. Most sadly, he has no concept of accepting non-Moslems as legitimate, albeit it different, equals. Our only strategy is periodic shows of power and force. This is a terrible, terrible thing for us to have to do since no people in world is more inherently humane, kind, gracious and charitible than the Jew. No people understands the sanctity of human life more than the Jew. It doesn't look good to the world and it might sound like we are some kind of bully, but history has shown this to be the only real option we have with the Arabs. It is either that or be erased. I feel so sorry for the thousands of good Arabs there are who are trapped in a culture of hatred and violence. My advice to them - convert.
7. legit self defense
naftali ,   Israel   (06.28.06)
330 million Arabs trying to kill 5 million Jews -- to what proportionality test is lawyer referring?? Common sense is required SOMETIMES
8. Israel HAS THE SOLEMN DUTY to defend its people!
Nebojsa Yitzchak M ,   Toronto   (06.28.06)
Nazis and their ALLIES can go to hell... AND STAY THERE PLEASE!!
9. Release Guilad....
yoel ,   switzerland   (06.28.06)
Is it possible doing it by attacking Damascus? It has no sense and is irrelevant. Anyway, IDF needs to go into Gaza and release him whatever the price. Soldiers need to feel beeing supported. Then, they would become more efficient for protecting israeli citizens.
10. Stop this nonsense
Caligula's Horse ,   Solomon's Stables   (06.28.06)
We've had enough of all the noble souls who think themselves to higher moral values, when the cannons fire the idiots must stay quiet, let them talk nonsense after the operation is over and the kidnapped is safe at home, there is a price for attacking a soveregin state with rockets guns and terrorists.
11. To the Legal Expert: SHAKESPEARE SAY'S YOUR FIRST.
(06.28.06)
12. All of this is for one soldier?
An observer ,   Canada   (06.28.06)
I mean this is a heroic move to save one soldier this way, but isn’t it a little bit overreacted? So what happens next? If they find the soldier alive are they going to leave Gaza as IDF promised or if they don’t find the POW than IDF stays in Gaza for good? It seems to me more as an excuse then a real reason and I think that this military move is going to be a laughing matter in the history books. Just think about it, if an American soldier would be kidnapped in China than the next move would be a US invasion of China till the soldier is find?
13. Utter Nonsense
David ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (06.28.06)
Look at historic military actions that have set the standard and then compare them to this. The IDF is currently conducting a tea party in Gaza - which is not their fault since the politicos have tied their hands.
14. Proportional - shamortional
Yitzi ,   Jerusalem   (06.28.06)
He who kills more of the enemy and breaks more of his things wins the war. A proportional response only convinces the terrorist that he can continue his terror because the price falls into an acceptable range of suffering for his family and friends. A proportional response is the folly of weak minded leftist thinking that leads to the endless creation of gray areas in policy and a total lack of progress which mires us in idiotic treaties such as Oslo. A war will never end unless someone either makes the people who support the terrorists suffer enough to pressure them to stop, or we make it impossible to continue. That was the dual purpose of the Atom Bombs on Japan. In nearly all cases a war can only end as the result of massive destruction, death, and inconvenience to the population who provides the warriors, money, equipment, hiding places, and support that their leadership and "fighters" require. Anything less than total victory results in endless warfare with mounting losses for both sides. History has proven time and time again that a quick decisive victory will cost less total lives, less total destruction, and displacement of populations for both sides.
15. to an Observer - Canada
A Jew ,   Canada   (06.28.06)
Yes dear, all of this just for one soldier. That's the difference between a jewsih army and the other ones...
16. Sit Down And Shut Up: Let The Real Men Work
Yishai Kohen ,   YeShA, Israel   (06.28.06)
Fighting back with featherdusters doesn't bring peace: Winning brings peace.
17. Explains a lot
Shai ,   Israel   (06.28.06)
By this logic, the greatest form of self defense a Palestinian can have is to NEVER allow himself to have statehood!
18. # 15 you said it!
darren ,   tel aviv   (06.28.06)
that is the difference between the IDF and other armies. God bless the IDF and its supportes. Thank you for clearing this issue.
19. #12 from Canada
Reverend Hu Shakran ,   Toronto   (06.28.06)
You cannot compare a US-China situation with this. The equivalent to put it into our context is if a US soldier was kidnapped by the Mounties - damn right the US would invade BC or whereever to get him back. The moment you say it is over-reaction you have given the terrorists the green light to kidnap again because they know you won't react. If Israel wants to prevent a wave of kidnappings it has no choice but to try to free the soldier now and to hit the Palestinians so hard that they don't even think about doing it again. Anything less is an invitation to further abuse.
20. Both sides have to play by the same rules
Michael   (06.28.06)
why does Israel have to follow the rules while their enemy flaunts the rules. if israel is to be able to defend herself properly. She has to play with the same rules of the game as her enemies. if the Palstinians condone the terrorists actions then they have to live with the consequences. Once again this warped reality shows its ugly head. Their expectation of targeting innocent civiliians is justified. Yet when the reaction comes to them, they can't expect their arguments about their civilians being endangered to be held to a different standard. If the Palestinians really care about themselves and really have a moral compass. They should be protesting in the streets against the terrorists. As President Bush once said you are either with us or against us. The choice is theirs..
21. What a stupid question - if anyone would have made such
Gabrielle Goldwater ,   Geneva Switzerland   (06.28.06)
idiotic statements in an war . esp. W.W.II The world would speak German today - incl. Muslims
22. 12 An observer: It is the principal you set - otherwise you
Gabrielle Goldwater ,   Geneva Switzerland   (06.28.06)
encourage more terrorism - more kidnapping etc... The principal of any good and decent army - you never leave a boy behind - dead or alive Entebbe showed what will be done for our Jews - and it is a principal we are living by - it is that what binds us it is that what makes us Jews survive
23. SECURITY BARRIER RULING
Arik Silverman ,   MIlwaukee USA   (06.28.06)
Let's be clear about what the International court said. It did NOT say Israel has no right to build a fence, it said this fence ON PALESTINIAN TERRITORY is illegal. As for the "minority," I believe the ruling was 13-to-1 or something like that. The sole dissenter was an American Jewish judge. His only reason for objecting was that "not enough information" had been considered. As for the self-defense argument to attack another country, given the US billions of support for Israel, would that make the US a legitimate target?
24. Soldiers are expected to get killed and kidnapped
Captain London ,   London, UK   (06.28.06)
Why IDF did not dare to invade Lebanon when Hezbollah kidnapped three soldiers in 2000?!!! Of course, all this operation is not because of the missing soldier that IDF wants to bring back. It is about the image of the Israeli army that should always have the upper hand. Israeli people should start to think rationally and forget about these stupid upper and lower hands emotions. Unfortunately, the fact is that IDF is portrayed as G-d and all politicians are under pressure to prove themselves eligible by killing more Palestinians...!!!! Insane.
25. Israel DOES NOT have the right to defend itself
Besalel ,   Kew Gardens, NY   (06.28.06)
Legally speaking, Israel does not have the RIGHT to defend itself but rather the OBLIGATION to defend its citizens. You have the right to free speech but you do not have to exercise it. You do not have to exercise rights. Obligations, on the other hand, you must carry out. When under contract you have the obligation to pay for the goods you contracted for and received. You have no choice. Similarly, Israel does not have a right to defend itself but the obligation to defend its citizens. Since Israel is under obligation to its citizens, the risk of Palestinian civilian casualties comes second to its obligation.
26. international law in flux over acts against terror
ben gurion ,   heaven   (06.28.06)
International law is not settled law. There are no black or red lines. It is being written every day. Was the bombing of Dresden by the Brits a violation of today's international law? Did anyone go to jail? Throwing up the international law red flag is absurd at this moment in history. Those who raise it have political agendas and hide behind it. The Hamas tunnel was an act of war committed by the government of a state. The state is Hamasistan. All force could and should be brought to bear to liberate Gilad and to root out and destroy every rocket that exists in Gaza. Gaza is the adress and it is now getting its rocket package returned in spades. Destroying all the rockets by the way is a propotional response. Making sure they cannot be smuggled in is a proportional response. Olmert is a lawyer. Why would he violate international law?
27. to 19
shlomo ,   pittsburgh   (06.28.06)
a better example would be an american soldier kidnapped in texas by the mexicans
28. To A Jew
An observer ,   Canada   (06.28.06)
So does that mean that if Canada would hold captive an IDF soldier in Canada than the IDF would initiate a full-scale attack on Canada?
29. To Gabrielle #22
An observer ,   Canada   (06.28.06)
I totally understand that this –otherwise nice principle- should be the principle of a “good” army, but in my opinion only when there is war and it doesn’t justify a full-scale attack on another country. I just hope that this IDF soldier will not be killed even by an unfortunate “accident” because that would mean especially by your understanding, that the Israeli Army will stay in Gaza for good thus the occupation is justified.
30. Israeli warplanes buzz Syrian president
James A. Moran ,   Alexandria , Va   (06.28.06)
Everyone in the Mid-East knows , its a big secret any more ...Arab leaders have no power , so what is the big deal about fly low over Dr. Bashar Asad home ...seems like a big moral stunt to get the morals of a shaky IDF troops a higher rush or maybe a scream and high five ....ok then , whats next ??? kill thousands of poor Palestinians and steal more land in the name of security ...
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