Opinion  Ray Hanania
Where do we go from here?
Ray Hanania
Published: 08.07.06, 09:19
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31. The MAJORITY of the Palestinians are EXTREMISTS!!
Edan ,   Beer Sheva   (07.08.06)
I keep hoping that it's not true but it is, Ray. You are a Christian so you do not know and cannot identify. But in the muslim world, religious literalism (which undoubtably leads to extremism) is the norm. We cannot change their culture. As hard as it is for me to imagine a true and lasting peace in the area, it is even harder for me to imagine a true concensus among the palestinians to stop the violence and extremism. And if the negotiations were to take place then both sides would have to give up something dear to them. Israel maybe giving east jerusalem and the palestinians abandoning the "right" of return. WHich is not at all their right , but that is another debate. To tell you the truth Ray, moderate left-of-center Israelis like myself are very close to losing all of our patience with the ways of our neighbors....
32. Ray Hanania is just another
(07.08.06)
Arab propagandist who has infiltrated Western media. He also claims to be Palestinian while sitting in his comfy US house and living the American dream. He kinda reminds me of the godfather of Palestinian infiltrators -- Edward Said -- only Hanania's a lot less educated.
33. Question for #11
Sidney ,   USA   (07.08.06)
Where did Jews go in the nineteen-thirties? Giving up on Israel means accepting gas chambers, pogroms, and inquisitions. Or would you seriously argue that the world is more civilized today than a century ago?
34. Better than Ray's one-sided sillines
Real Solution ,   USA   (07.08.06)
Jordan agrees to govern parts of Judea and Samaria not needed for Israel's defense. Likewise for Egypt and Gaza. Jerusalem remains undivided capital of Israel. All weapons removed from Judea, Samaria and Gaza areas. IT IS SO EASY. This is more fair than Ray's - Give the Pals everything they want solution. After all - this is much closer to the actual pre-67 state of affairs. For the near term however... 1. Release Shalit. 2. Pals lay down arms and rebuild some kind of decent society in Gaza and Ramallah. 3. IDF withdraws and it is live and let live again.
35. Sorry #11, I meant #13
Sidney ,   USA   (07.08.06)
36. helloooooo -- israel left gaza
meni ,   beersheva   (07.08.06)
what we got in return? the answer is that this conflict is NOT about occupation. finished, end of story. read charles krauthammer recently in Time magazine. i personally want to vomit every time i read some article by a palestinian about their 'demands' or 'thoughts' to end the violence. we've seen this movie for the last 15 years. we've negotiated. we've withdrawn. the answer is only too clear. pay no attention to palestinians blabbing. start a SLOW deportation of palestinian population to syria and lebanon. continue massive growth rates of haredim (6.6%) and settlers (8%) -- palestinians 4.5%. after 20-30 years jews will be overwhelming majoirty, then annex all of west bank. end of conflict.
37. We had such an answer
TM (Jewlicious) ,   jewlicious.com   (07.08.06)
Ray, I'm sad to say that Israel's position at Taba based on the Clinton proposals was about as close to what you're suggesting as possible. I encourage you to look at the information Moratinos compiled on behalf of the EU to understand Taba better. He traveled to the region, interviewed participantes in the talks from both sides. His conclusions were sobering. Israel offered a two state solution with Palestinians getting 100% of Gaza and 97.5% of the West Bank. There would have been a 1 to 1 land exchange by Israel for the remaining 2.5% of the land (meaning the Palestinians get the equivalent amount of land from Israeli territory. There was a $30 billion reparations package for the Palestinians and the inherent right of all Palestinians to move to the new state of Palestine. Israel would have accepted Palestinians into its territory on the basis of their being real refugees and on a scale equal to the absorption of refugees by other countries - assumptions were that 40,000 - 50,000 of the 1948 generation would have made it into Israel. The Palestinians would have had an international airport, seaport and even air rights. Israel would have been permitted to fly over the new state of Palestine within certain parameters. On the Jordan Valley side, no Israeli troops were to be left. An international contingency would have had a tenure of several years before leaving. In Jerusalem, Palestinians would have had sovereignty over the "Arab" parts of the city while the Old City would have been kept whole but with each party controlling its relevant sections including holy places. There was a vertical sovereignty idea floated for the Temple Mount/Harm al Sharif. Israel was negotiating this while attacks of the 2000 Palestinian War were already underway. There were already suicide bombings and a movement on the streets to attack Israel. This was a direct result of the failed Camp David talks. Finally, Israel walked away from Taba because they were weeks away from elections and Barak realized that the Israeli public was sick of negotiating and making offers and getting war in return. The most telling part of Moratinos' survey of the Taba talks, however, is that the Palestinians refused to budge from their positions pre-Camp David. The Israelis went from "never divide Jerusalem" to offering joint sovereignty over the holiest site in Judaism and Palestinian control over east Jerusalem only to watch in amazement as the Palestinians rejected this proposal. The inescapable conclusion was and is that the Palestinians simply didn't want a two state solution. If we had any doubts about this, they elected a terror group recently that supports the destruction of Israel and a single Palestinian entity (presumably also covering Jordan). I don't think Israel can go back to Taba since the danger of the Palestinians having an international port and airport is now clear, but my guess is that Taba was as close as you'll get to a fair solution where both sides can live in peace and dignity subsequently. It's just that you probably need to spend a generation educating Palestinians to accept compromise instead of the past generation's education toward no compromise and justification of attacks on civilians.
38. The above
Saba D ,   Israel   (07.08.06)
At last Ray someone has said what needs to be said,. Apparantly there are some who read your article, mainly Israelis, and still only see the red in front of their eys. How do we change their way of thinking, responding (both Israelis and Arabs) so that their knee jerk response changes to closer to your suggestion than immediate hate and ditrust filled reaction
39. to #29 and #33
Robert   (07.08.06)
Wider Perspective, I fail to see why you assume Jerusalem is the issue at all, Arafat rejected an offer that would give him control of the city. Also you prejudge the outcome claiming it should justly be Palestinian, why so? Did the Jordianians give it to a Palestinian entety? take back your hypocracy and double standards. Borders are negociated on after wars. Take a look at a map of Germany, are you going to ask Poland to give up much of its coast back to Germany? What is immoral is demanding ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the west bank, before 1948 there were Jews living there as well. Would you accept expelling all the Arabs from Israel propper? Including east Jerusalem there are close to 400,000 'settlers' or about 20% of the people in the west bank, there is a similar proportion of arabs in Israel. Ethnic cleansing of one of them and not the other, that is yout morallity. Sidney, I dont see why you ask ME that. I did not give up on Israel
40. Mutual recognition
Samir ,   Canada   (07.08.06)
I very much agree with Ray. If we both recognize the suffering of the other. I personally feel sorry for what happened to the Jews in Europe and the suffering the went through there. I also feel sorry for the loss of their beloved in the suicide bombers. The problem that many Israelis claim they want peace but never recognize Palestinian suffering. The claim they want peace but never recognize Palestinians to leave in Gaza, west bank and east Jerusalem. They want that kind of peace, which leaves people, lived in this land for thousand of years either to leave or live under occupation and watching settlements being built. If I only see one Israeli who would write in a talk back and asking his fellow Israelis to recognize our right to live in the west bank and Gaza and have east Jerusalem the capital of Palestine. You don't leave any other option to the Palestinians but to hate you. If you want to show peace, put yourselves in our shoes as Ray said. Thanks Ray for your great article and I hope it reaches their heart. I always dreamt that we all live in one land, one man one vote. But this is something like utopia, but I’m certain we’ll come to this at the end.
41. How do we start?
Yehuda ,   USA   (07.08.06)
We've failed to end this conflict as we have failed to agree on a final solution. If you read post #37, that's the solution that most Israelis understood was being offered. Reading your columns Ray, I thought you would support such a solution. If most Palestinians thought this then there is nothing to fight over. But I cannot believe that is the case. The Palestinians elected Hammas and they represent what the Palestinians want. Despite awful living conditions Hammas is not loosing popularity. I have to believe that most Palestinians would rather live like this with the dream of destroying Israel versus living normal lives on less land. Your suggestions are great, but please tell me: 1. What is a fair solution for the other side? 2. Where do we communicate for a just peace. How do we transform moderate ideas into action? What tools havn't we tried to use yet? 3. Have you reached out and respected your enemy? Do you consider your videos with Ali as moderate message for Palestinians?
42. Ray, Israel killed the family on the beach? really?
(07.08.06)
That's not what the final investigation concluded. Keep up the lies Ray.
43. These are temporary "solutions"
Ibrahim ,   S.Arabia   (07.08.06)
It's funny how Ray lives in his own idealistic cloud and somehow neglects to face one crucial fact: The Palestinian PEOPLE ELECTED Hamas. So Ray's assertions that Palestinians want peace etc. make no sense. Another thing that is striking is that most solutions proposed are temporary, just for now, and don't look down the road, say, 20 years later. You know that squeezing two nations with increasing populations into the tiny land of Israel can only lead to future conflict: What will happen the year that Gaza and the West Bank contain all the Palestinians they can hold??? And their population increasing constantly, as is natural? Why doesn't anybody address this question? How can this not be a recipe for disaster? Does everyone who calls for a two-state solution only think for the next 5-10 years? How come no one sees that the best solution for the Palestinians themselves is to go to large, wealthy Arab countries as citizens, and make a life there? How come these Arab countries- who say they care so much for the Palestinians-don't offer to welcome Palestinians in their countries, not as refugees, but as citizens, give them homes, land, and jobs????
44. You are still messing the point Ray.
Alex ,   US   (07.08.06)
You are still messing the point Ray. Root of the conflict is in non-acceptance of Israel as a Jewish state by Arabs. When last time did you read your free Arabs press? Can you point me to any article defending Israeli right to exists as Jewish state leaving in secure borders with a Jerusalem as it capital? Can you point me to any political party in Arab world, which has similar to Meretz agenda? Ball is in your territory, Ray. If you are so hero - start doing something. Stop crying. Take you article to Arabs press. And sent me link – I want to see it there.
45. Solution - PA admits defeat & gains.....
Rafi   (07.08.06)
The People or the leaders of the PA Arabs have always said no to accepting an Israeli Jewish state. They lost in 1948, they lost when they did not accept Clintons plan. The land available for them will keep shrinking. They must admit defeat and find an Arab Gandhi to lead them away from the cult of death that the Hamas and Al Aksa, Jihad and all the rest that make live lives based around death and worship of suicide bombers. When the PA Arabs follow in Gandis footsteps they will acquire much more power of persuasion and then can start living the life of realists in this world not in the next world of fantasy virgins. They will not defeat Israel militarily. The first step is to admit defeat and say we want peace. Start acting peacefully. For example, if the Gazans had built apartments and schools in the former Gush Katif settlements instead of terrorist training camps then people might be inclined to help them and work them. Admit defeat and live and peace and so will the Israelis with you. Until then you are doomed to a fantasy world of keys from former homes and more young people dreaming of martyrs funerals
46. #2
Jane   (07.08.06)
Based on the results of our pullout from Gaza, it would appear that IT IS NOT EASY. We are dealing with a population of many hardened criminals who have been educated on Jew-hatred. How do we begin to approach a people who denies the very core of our existence? How do we speak with people who have NEVER accepted our return to our land? How do we interact with a people whose actions during the past 6 years have been so cold-blooded that they scream contempt for the sanctity of human life? No, Abu Muhammed, IT IS NOT SO EASY. Palestinian rejectionism and absolutism speaks for itself. You are not a people who respect the concept of compromise.
47. Abo Muhammed
Jane   (07.08.06)
No, blame your leaders who lied to you, stole from you, educated for hate and poisoned your minds. Blame your Arab brothers who fanned the flames of rejectionism and absolutism to the point that your brains were numbed to the concept of compromise. COMMMMMMMOOOON!
48. #40, Samir
Jane   (07.08.06)
You lost me at East Jerusalem and one land. Samir, when your Palestinian brothers learn to compromise and educate themselves and their children for peace, give us a call. When your Palestinian brothers understand that Jerusalem is the holiest place for Jews and that Muslims holiest place is Mecca (with Medina thrown in for good measure), give us a call. I am not, nor have I ever been a hater. I am not an exclusionist. I don't deny the suffering of the Palestinians, though I would no doubt disagree strongly with you as to the source of the suffering. But, Samir, I am adamant that the Jews are entitled to our ONE Jewish state amid the sea of Islamic states.
49. "Where do we go from here"
Yakov Shani ,   Israel   (07.08.06)
I have no comment as to where the Israelis are going, I leave this to your imagination. As to the Palestinians, the answer is simple. "Down the tube, by their own misguided machinations". You do not like my posts, Ray, as you have previously indicated. You misread me, I am a man of great understanding and a man of peace, sympathy for the underdog and I want a solution to this problem just as much as you do. As long as our adversaries are hell bent on destruction and death, we respond in kind, sevenfold, until they get the message. The day they decide on a paradigmatic change Israel will become their best friend, better than all the Arab States combined ever have been, or ever will be. The bond between them has only resulted in devastation. Time to try something else. You know this is true Ray, please try and bring yourself to admit it. I have lived a long time in war with my neighbors, I would like to live in peace with them, for the duartion of the time I have left.
50. # 40 Utopia
Yakov Shani ,   Israel   (07.08.06)
It will come, but there are certain conditions. With all my harsh talkbacks, I am one of the Israelis that you want to hear. I wish to live with you side by side, but not in your present state of mind. The day you say it is all over, lay down your arms, renounce terror and declare to the world that you wish to live with us in peace. This is the day that Israel will help you to build a modern thriving State. We will be happy to do this.I hope I live to see this day, but with your present leaders, I doubt it. My "fascist talkbacks" are directed at bloodthirsty terrorists and idiotic leaders, not at the Palestinians in general whom I know very well indeed, all my life. You let Arafat con you and rob you, not money, money is unimportant, he stole your minds, hence your future and that of your children. Vomit these leaders from your midst and start a new life for yourselves. The rewards will be vast and boundless. Esmani ya Samir. Mabruk wa sachten alek
51. More people like this reasonable man - on both sides!
Chris ,   Warsaw, Poland   (07.08.06)
M o d e r a t i o n, round table, peace. It is never too much to remind oneself these basic things.
52. #39 Jerusalem and settlements
wider perspective   (07.08.06)
Arafat didn't reject control of Jerusalem. He rejected an offer that would give Palestinians only some suburbs in East Jerusalem. East Jerusalem has a sizable Palestinian population and Arab temples; it is obviously very important for Palestinians and Israel's unwillingness to divide it is a major obstacle to peace. Moreover, Israeli settlements in East Jerusalem (and in the West Bank) violate international law and Israel's annexation of East Jerusalem hasn't been recognized by the international community. Your approach to negotiations is obviously not based on the reconciliation of needs and interests of both sides but rather on the use of force, which actually makes negotiations meaningless and perpetuates the conflict. You can't reject Palestinians' legitimate needs and interests by comparing them to Nazis. Israeli settlers could theoretically remain in the territories but then they would have to live according to the law of a Palestinian state, like Israeli Arabs have to live according to the law of Israel.
53. Wonderful ideas BUT you have forgotten one thing:
David ,   Karmiel   (07.08.06)
The Palestinians do NOT recognize Israel's right to exist and they are encouraged to hate evrything Israeli and Jewish by the likes of the Presidents of Syria, Iran, Malaysia and so on. How many times has Israel offered the Olive Branch of Peace only to be kicked in the butt for our efforts? How can you and the "Left" condone the murder of 18 year Eliyah Asheri and so many others before him? Maybe you have forgotten about him already? The ball is and must be in the Arab Court. Lay down your arms, recognize Israel and get down to some serious haggling over real issues without threats and violence. Without that there cannot be a solution and in my humble opinion, there is no solution because of this mad Muslim mentality of Holy Jihad.
54. #37 TM (Jewlicious) - Taba
wider perspective   (07.08.06)
It's a pity Barak withdrew from the Taba negotiations and since then Israel has refused to talk about the final status issues. I don't know where you got the figure of 97.5% part of WB offered to Palestinians. The EU paper about Taba says Israel offered to annex 6% and Palestinians wanted to give Israel 3.1% in the context of a land swap. (The Israeli side adhered to a maximum 3 percent land swap as per Clinton proposal.) Palestinians were willing to negotiate about the exact solution to the refugee issue. Also, according to the EU paper, Palestinians accepted Israeli sovereignty over Jewish neighborhoods in Jerusalem and were ready to discuss Israel's request to keep sovereignty over post-1967 Israeli settlements in East Jerusalem, with the exception of Jebal Abu Ghneim and Ras al-Amud. Palestinians recognized Israeli sovereignty over the Western Wall, although there was a dispute about the exact area covered by the Western Wall. The Temple Mount issue wasn't resolved, but the EU paper doesn't specify why. Taba negotiators said that they were closer than ever before to the final status agreement. Their work should be finished.
55. Ray Hanania, arab American journalist
question ,   truth about Islam   (07.08.06)
Ray Hanania is a standup comedian can you answer the following question with a straight face Can true Muslims be Good Americans, or for that matter a good citizen of any western democratic non Moslem country ? Can a devout Muslim be a patriot and a loyal citizen to any country having the Bible as their guide? Consider this: Theologically, no. Because his allegiance is to Allah. Scripturally, no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran). Geographically, no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day. Socially, no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews. Politically, no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, the great Satan. Domestically, no, because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quoran 4:34). Religiously, no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256) Intellectually, no, because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt. Philosophically, no, because Islam, Mohammed Quoran's, and the Quoran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic. Spiritually, no, because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as our heavenly father, nor is he ever called Love in the Quoran's 99 excellent names. Therefore after much study and deliberation.... Ray Hanania as an award winning Palestinian American journalist, author and standup comedian please finish this thought and then preach co existence in this country(?) or is your answer going to be, They obviously cannot be both good Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish...it's still the truth.
56. What is this?
Cj ,   Denver, USA   (07.08.06)
I know this is opinion, but please. Kudos to the "Can't we all just get along" poster! There is no reasoning with people who send out their children with bombs strapped to their bodies so their parents can't get a better place in heaven. Why aren't there a lot of old 60 year old suicide bombers? Get your Palestinian children off the border that throw the rocks constantly at the Israeli troops. The murder of Palenstinians on the beach? When was this editorial written? Silliness.
57. My Solution
CJ ,   Denver, USA   (07.08.06)
Democracy, SECULAR education, and a strong economy, that is if they can stop hating Israel long enough to develop these things. To the contrary, if the Palestinian leaders, culture, and parents continue their hatred for Israel, continue to teach it to their children, and continue to violently act upon it, Isreal will defend itself. End of story. And the Palestinians will continue to be in poverty and in love with hate.
58. Yakov Shani
sk ,   USA   (07.08.06)
Hey dude, I'm "going underground" as far as Ynet is concerned. One of these days I will visit Israel (it is not my favorite place nowadays) and would find it facinating to chat with you. Email me if you'd like. Incidentally, if you see someone walking past you with a pink clown suit, that will be me.
59. To oded No. 25
A Concerned American ,   Chicago USA   (07.08.06)
Its people like you who sees no ray of hope are the ones making this conflict longer an bloodier. Ray Hanania is an American, born and raised and truely care for Israelis as well as palestinians. You can not just go around judging people you do not even know. Try to be more respectful of what others say and think may be something would change for you and you will be able to see rays of hope as many of us palestinians and Israelis do.
60. Ray, email me please
Joy Springreen   (07.08.06)
I want to talk to you. the captions on the pictures say it all. Cyclical reactionary violence. Where do we all get off? Are we frightened of the momentum and inertia of stepping off? What can anti-war movements do? how many anti war movements are there? But more importantly, how many pro-culture groups are there? Not as many. Mail me.
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