stop philosophy , teenager sons of the "States"

since 1978 there has been a UN force in lebanon in order to maintain peace. May 2000 Israel withdraw and UNIFIL moved in . In 6 years Hezzbolla has atacked israel patrols, shelled israeli cities with anti aircraft artillery..,and amassed an imense stockpile of weapons. All this with a UN peace keeping force on the ground.In The Secretary General report on the Force dated 12 July 2002 The Secretary-General also remained concerned about the restriction of movement on UNIFIL personnel, who must be able to carry out their mandate. In the most serious incident, on 4 April, about 15 Hezbollah personnel forced an Observer Group Lebanon patrol south-west of Kafr Shuba to stop at gunpoint and assaulted the observers with rifle butts, injuring three, one seriously" background unifil. How can anyone trust a UN force? If such force will confront hezzbola it will became a target,and no army or armies will be ready to sacrifice for the security of Israel. Inevitabily such force will do nothing but impair future israeli actions.

MOST Christian Lebanese don't agree with YOU FACTS: Open letter to Olmert from the Lebanese Foundation for Peace. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Support_Israel/message/16217;_ylc=X3oDMTJydXNmNnUwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1ODEyMzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAxMTQ0Nzc3BG1zZ0lkAzE2MjE3BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzExNTI5MzgzODE- More facts: http://www.free-lebanon.com/ More facts from Brigitte Gabriel A Lebanese http://www.americancongressfortruth.com/

he's raving and ranting the little mad man with NO pants

Then kindly explain how calling Kofi Annan a "monkey" is not racist? Kindly tell us when you are going to live in Israel? Kindly state your coordinates publicly so that our friends in south Lebanon know what to do with you.

The peacekeepers are needed, NOW, yes, but what is truly needed, IS a STRONG LEBANESE Army presence, in that troubled area, known as South Lebanon, to keep out Hezbollah, for GOOD, and to keep the Norther Israeli towns and PEOPLE, safe, as well as the LEBANESE people, and yes, too, the CIVILIAN Family members(Hezbollah DOES do Good Works, CIVILIAN Work in areas of lebanon)of the Hezbollah fighters, in the all-too familar Israeli reprisal attacks, for the all-too familiar, Hezbollah attacks. I'm just guessing that such countries as EGYPT, or even TURKEY(has Friendly relations, USUALLY, with other Muslim Lands, PLO, etcetera, and with ISRAEL, as well!), could properly TRAIN a strong new, DEMOCRATIC lebanese Army, to match, yes the STRUGGLING lebanese Democracy in Beirut.

what's your problem you Islamic Extremist ??? Only trying to control A Jewish Website - and NOT being able HaHaHa

Lisbon, how large is the Current UN Force in South Lebanon, and what sort of Force is it composed of? I am a "former' US Marine, knew some killed in 1983(etcetera) Marine Barracks bombing, I am CERTAIN that a Superpower, like US should NOT deploy our Troops to Lebanon(look how much they "Love us," now in IRAQ, for "Elected" JUNIOR-BUS$H's OIL War there, in FORMERLY, Secular SADDAM's Iraq, NOW about to become "also," a SHIA Islamic Republic? THIS oughtta Help Stability, and Israelis' long-term SAFETY etcetera, Huh?! NO way!) BUT, I had firstly thought of FRENCH FOREIGN Legion, only Lebanon, FORMER FRENCH COLONY, Right, and YOUR Location, Portugal, made me think of yes, Portugeuse Forces, and/or Spanish Foreign Legion, or ___? But you NEED some kind of "special" Forces, and/or mountain, Troops(German Troops, out of Afghanistan?) to REALLY KEEP HEZBOLLAH out of that BORDER area, for good.

If you can "only describe" what we do an "Israeli doctrineof trying to collectively punish whole countries until they behave themselves", then you lack descriptive capacity and an understanding of how bridges, electric plants and ports are military assets. You also lack an alternative, since we tried them all. The exact opposite of what you claim is true. If law abiding nations (the UN and G8 have sanctioned Israel's action as law abiding until now) do not protect themselves against those who don't follow the rules, like Hamas and Hizbollah, then it is THIS that would be "short sighted" and "reckless". The "road we've headed down" has been the road you espouse. It's brought us to the chaos that Hamas and Hezbollah reign over and thrive in. It creates an atmosphere where law cannot be respected. It's the way that coaxes us to see ourselves as "sacrifices for peace". Nonsense. Enemies make you a sacrifice. Enemies don't make peace. We tried everything else to protect ourselves. It doesn't and hasn't worked. We even withdrew completely from Lebanon after an invasion to rid ourselves of the previous version of Nasrallah, Yassir Arafat, as we were asked to, and even that wasn't enough. In fact, I'll agree with you that you've met many Lebanese who are moderate and intelligent people. Wouldn't hurt a fly. Unfortunately, they wouldn't hurt Hezbollah either, even though the UNSCR required them to, and that's why we and the Lebanese have this problem. They didn't do the job, so we have to. The invasion is part of the solution, not part of the problem. Hezbollah and the rejectionist Islamists are the problem. It's Hezbollah and the chaos they enforce that causes "moderate" Lebanese to leave Lebenon. Get that fact straight. It's not because of Israel. I do not recall, Michael, that the Lebanese begged the Israelis to stay in South Lebanon (except for the SLA), so that they wouldn't have to deal with the Hezbollah. No, they were happy we left, and we were happy to give them the obligation to control their border, an obligation that in the end they were too "moderate, tolerant and intelligent" to take up. And, they didn't ask for UN help then to do the job. Rather, they CHOSE to keep the Hezbollah on our border, and CHOSE the pretext of Shaba farms to keep the conflict simmering. What are we supposed to do, show our appreciation, Michael? So, here we are today. The fact that our invasion will or will not lead to peace is not completely relevant when you are the target for attacks. There's something about being attacked that stops us from contemplating our navels in our ivory towers, as you're free to do in Australia, Michael. What's relevant is that right now, without talking about the theory of what's possible or not, we have been the target of missile attacks, kidnappings, attempted kidnappings, attempted bombings, we are the target of 12000 missiles, and we are on the front next to Syria's and Iran's proxy and none of them are interested in peace with us on any terms we can literally live with. So, we deal with the facts on the ground. Your "theory" of what works already has been disproven. Withdrawals don't work. Peace talks don't work. Compromise doesn't work. In fact, Hamas has told us that even complete capitulation (release of prisoners, return to '67 lines, admitting fault for Palestinians' state of affairs, allowing all refugees to return with their families) is good for only a 20 year Hudna, after which we'll probably be forced to convert by the sword. So, Michael - Australia isn't too far away for these Islamic fanatics. Indonesia, one of the most heavily populated Islamic countries is to your north (~200 million Muslims, 88% of the country). If you think our surrendering will make you safer, you will very, very soon find out how wrong you are. We do not intend to be your canary in the mine.

To create a proper enviroment for some sort of local peace, will it not be necessary to root out all local terror groups and their sponsors? i.e. Syra & Iran by involving the international community military forces, in particular US military?

Of course, you are right - with Syria and Iran's influence in the region, there is no chance for peace. Though there are scenarios where we'd initiate a conflict (we see that a missile aimed at Tel Aviv is about to be launched from Syrian territory, for example), we don't have the political backing that it takes to hit Syria and Iran how and when we want to. For now, we have to focus on the direct threat, not the indirect one, which is real enough. Remember that we are a small country. As soon as there is a Syrian front (with Iran's participation) we'll likely be calling up a significant part of the work force for war. We lose a lot by such a choice. It's much better for us economically to achieve a win on points rather than a knock out. If we need to, we can do more. We may even have to. But I think so far we're doing OK.

Another nadless enterprise trying to outdo TEAM U-N F____YEAH. Too many cooks Spoil the broth. They all should just go back to the pub and have a couple of cold ones. I'm sure they will all come to a reasonable solution.

Israel is taking this action purely because it can. It has the military capability to do anything it chooses to do in the region, without equivalent retaliation. However it is doing this on borrowed time. This is not going to be the case forever. Ten, twenty, fifty years from now, if Israel cannot find a way to make peace in the region, it's going to be faced with the exact same religious zealots hell bent on their destruction, and with the means to actually do it. This isn't my wish, it's a simple fact. What is Israel going to do ? Kill everyone opposed to it ? The point I have been trying to make, is that I don't believe you can enlighten people, and make peace with them, by destroying the infrastructure of their country. Plunging a country into chaos is only going to empower chaotic elements in the society.

Weren't there already UN "peacekeeping" forces along the border in Lebanon? Weren't they complicit with Hezbollah attacks into Israel? Israel must not allow this! Remember how effective European "monitors" were at keeping weapons out of Gaza? Both Europe and the UN are partners with Hamas and Hezbollah in their drive to destroy Israel. Tony Blair is a baldfaced liar. England abstained from the last two UN votes to condemn Israel. England has NEVER voted against an Israeli condemnation.

Well, I suppose nobody does anything they can't do. And I suppose that if they could have, the Arabs would have destroyed us by now - it's not for lack of trying. But at some point we have to recognize that we invest in our self defense to, obviously, defend ourselves. If the normal channels like the UN don't work, and if our neighbors are unwilling to comply with standards of behavior that all other nations comply with, we have to recognize this and respond. We have been able to do what we're doing now for some time, and haven't done it. We've been patient enough. There will be no "ten, twenty, fifty years from now" if we are given the message by our government that our deaths are a cheap price to pay to assuage the conscience of people like you. So I'd rather be hear fifty years from now to face those zealots you threaten me with, rather than have no prospect of facing them because I have followed your advice. The point I'm trying to make is that you can "enlighten people" who want to be enlightened. There are many people who oppose Israel, they even are MK's in our government, and we don't kill them. There is nothing gained from your exaggerations or melodrama. Rather, "the point I'M trying to make" is that we have to recognize things for what they are, nto what we wish them to be. That's what we, finally, have done. Destroying the infrastructure of Lebanon serves a military purpose. The chaos that results from that is not desirable, but the choice is to allow chaos on our side of the boundary. We refuse to allow Lebanon to externalize its problems with Hezbollah, Syria and Iran at our expense. We have a right to fight that, we will fight that, and if Lebanese do not want to pay any price for Hezbollah's actions against us, they know exactly what they have to do. Return our soldiers, disarm Hizbollah and move their national army into South Lebanon. Not doing so is not about "opposing" us. It's about supporting Lebanon. It's time that they, and you Michael, discerned the difference.

They don't help, International Troops. They mostly hinder, and sometimes hurt. My view is that this is an excuse to set a precedent for putting Int'l troops between us and the Palestinians. It's a rewardWe've always refused it for the following reasons: 1) when the Palestinians or Hizbollah attack us, they don't stop it. In many ways they facilitate it. Look at UN on northern border. Look at TIFH. They have not once protected us. They have several times hurt us badly. 2) when we try to strike back or defend ourselves, there is the risk of hurting foreign soldiers, which is politically uncomfortable. Therefore, our flexibility to maneuver is affected to our detriment. 3) the presence of Int'l soldiers requires a great deal of support staff that are frequently, because of the politics of their home countries, not friendly to Israel. I prefer not to have them. If you're asking me, I'd nix the idea. But it's better in Lebanon to have them than in WB or Gaza.

I still do not quite understand what you think Israel is going to achieve with this military action ? I think there is a time and a place for using military force, but when you do it, you want to be absolutely clear about the result you trying to achieve. Knocking out a few bridges, power plants, roads, airports... thats only going to infuriate people, killing civillians is only going to make militants out of their relatives.

Michael, yes - you don't quite understand. Bridges, power plants, airports and roads are used to transport military materielle, our captured soldiers, their soldiers, etc. Part of defending ourselves is to ensure that our enemy spends their resources on logistics rather than attacking. I frankly could care less whether it makes militants out of their relatives. The last 6 years when we did very little did not result in any of them becoming less militant, nor did it result in them reining in Hizbollah. Your approach is pure pie in the sky, Michael, and very, very naive. It's nice to have faith in humanity and all, but you aren't getting a good look at it from Australia. Things don't always work the way you want them to or think they should.

I was born in Australia, I'm currently in Europe and have spent alot of time in the middle east. If you think you can win by draining arabs of their money, you're in for a very tough battle. Iran has great wealth at it's disposal, and other countries/individuals in the region have even more. If Israel continues to indiscriminately use it's military power, it's only going to generate more support for groups like Hezbollah.