Opinion  Sever Plocker
Jenin massacre syndrome
Sever Plocker
Published: 23.07.06, 13:46
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59 Talkbacks for this article
1. Sense & fact amid the propaganda.
Jane ,   UK   (07.23.06)
When I hear reporters citing "comparative" casualty figures I cannot by wonder if not enough Jews are being killed for their satisfaction. Despite thousands of Kassem, Katyushas and Scud missiles, coupled with innumerable terrorist attacks & sucide bombings, it is nothing short of a miracle that more Israelis have not been killed. Instead it is Israel's enemies that have come out worse in all of this and many reporters seem extremely frustrated at this. It is as if 6,000,000 dead Jews were not enough for them.
2. Good words...
Ilan ,   Ra'anana   (07.23.06)
War is bad... always! But sometimes necessary. And I, as an Israeli, I am really proud of the IDF, as a human and decent army, and of the the soldiers, that are putting their lives in risk because we have the right to leave in peace in our country.
3. Plocker the leftist hypocrite!
Ben Avraham ,   Tel Aviv   (07.23.06)
Plocker has spent his career degrading the Israeli Right with his own lies and innacuracies.
4. 150
Carlo Rovelli ,   Rome, Italy   (07.23.06)
I live in Europe. The Press here has reported precisely the same numbers quoted by Plocker, even a bit less. Which means more than a hundred women and men from Lebanon killed, as a consequence of a few Israeli soldiers prisoners. This still appears horrendous and inhuman to me. I love Israel, and I wish so much Israel would stop this carnage.
5. Israel is loosing on the PR front
Alex ,   London   (07.23.06)
Good words, but again, where are the facts? Where are the numbers? Peres went on record once claiming that Lebanese casualty numbers can't be trusted. And? This message had to be pummeled relentlessly if true into the heads of the foreign media reps.. With proof. I'm closely familiar with the IDF and Israeli in general attitude to collateral damage. The message was always the same: no accidental killings of civilians.. Operation plans discuss in length how to avoid the casualties among the population.. Watching the Reuters wire spit out news on Israel every minute, it's hard not to get the feeling that Israeli army and political elite doesn't understand the importance of the world opinion.. I remember american army holding daily press conferences describing the targeted strikes in the wake of the iraqi war. Where are the israeli press conferences? Each claim by the Lebanese should be rebuffed if possible. Attention should also be paid to the blogosphere where a lot of the negative buzz is generated.. Israeli-sympathetic bloggers are doing a nice job, however they lack the support from the field that should have come from the army spokesman and the army leadership.. What about the "water pump truck destruction"? Why don't we hear an explanation from the army? We need to hear the basis for each large decision from the army itself, so we don't need to speculate. Army decides to knock-off mobile network in tthe north of Lebanon - explain the rationale afterwards.. Talk to us, communicate and then the army of supporters will help to propagate the Israeli position through the internet, offline discussions and elsewhere..
6. Noboby seems to be dying in Lebanon
Denise ,   Porto Alegre, Brazil   (07.23.06)
You accuse the Latin America's press of hyping the facts. So here is a fact. So far, ALL the civiliand victims in Israel are just SEVENTEEN. In Lebanon, SEVEN Brazilians citizens already were murdered by israeli airstrikes. Seven, but some news reports indicate TEN. Note that ALL were inocent civilians, including children on vacation. So, THE NUMBER OF BRAZILIANS DEAD BY ISRAELI AIRSTRIKES IN LEBANON EQUALS HALF OF THE ISRAELI CIVILIANS VICTIMS IN THE WAR.
7. Very soon this article would be flooded by Arab posts
Tahl ,   Israel   (07.23.06)
I can very much smell them coming here - from Lebanon, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, France, the UK, the US, from all over the world, they'll be rearing their ugly heads, denouncing Sever Plocker and his important article. "Israel is targeting innocent civilians", "Israel's retaliation is disproportionate", "The IDF are killers", they'll be spouting, "and Plocker is their mouthpiece, covering up for them with lies." Or something along this line. (Of course I'd love to be wrong, but reality in this site pretty much taught me otherwise). Don't let them fool you. They are either the direct result of biased anti-Israel media brainwash in their countries, or simply, already raised to be biased and hateful against Israel. Anyone with a healthy, analytic, unbiased mind should read this article well, examine the cold facts, search the internet if needed for more information, and arrive at the truth by himself. One more note I want to add: when criticizing Israel's retaliation as "disproportionate" - I want to ask - what IS considered proportionate? Should we kill one Hizbollah soldier for every IDF soldier killed? But if it's not enough, maybe our guideline should be, say, 1.25 dead Hizbollah soldiers per one dead IDF soldier? Still not enough? Maybe the ratio should be 3.8? And what about civilian casualties? Should we deliberately kill one Lebanese citizen for every Israeli citizen killed? Maybe 2? Clearly I'm saying this cynically, but seriously now, what should be considered "proportionate"? I'll tell you what I think is "proportionate". It's not any sort of a killing ratio. It's not about how much bridges or airports we destroy. It's very simple. I view a "proportionate" response - as a response which would deter Hizbollah from making unprovoked attacks against us again. A response which would make them realize, that attacking us is out of the question, as it would cause them much more damage than good. Have we reached this point yet? I don't think so. At the current situation, they are still as determined as always to attack us, and would certainly do so in the future, as soon as the timing is good for them. So all of you in the world - please let us finish the job now, once and for all. Thank you.
8. There's no destruction of lebanon...
Tony Saber ,   Lebanon   (07.23.06)
Thats right deny anything happenned heres something to refresh you memory. http://fromisraeltolebanon.info By the way, Jenin Massacre did happen. For two weeks the media was not allowed to enter Jenin, if the IDF had nothing to hide then why did they not allow media to cover the truth? So the whole city of jenin that was flattened and all of its population went missing, so what happened to the population ? I remember seeing footage of trucks carrying bodies out of Jenin, its just a matter of finding the mass graves.
9. I've been waiting for this article
vdz ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (07.23.06)
Where's more articles reporting what exactly we do in Lebanon. We need to publish those things to provide a contra force for the amature journalism!
10. Nice try but no cigar
George Whitney ,   London UK   (07.23.06)
The International press is doing a fantastic job in bringing pictures from Lebanon and the total destrution taking place, the targeting of innocent civilians and the civilian infrastucture. No Zionist spin in this world can match those pictures. No you are not 'giving kittens to blind orphanes', it worked in the past, but it doesn't work anymore. Welcome to the age of communication. By the way 497 Palestinians died in the Defensive Shield offensive. Three dead Jews is a massacre, but how many Arab women and children does it take for a Jew to call it a Massacre?
11. Message to European leaders
Student ,   abroad   (07.23.06)
You condemn Israel for invading Lebanon. You say Lebanon is not responsible for Hezbollah. I want to tell you that Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government, and If Lebanon is a sovereign country, so it is responsible for its actions and to its borders, responsibility Lebanon is refusing to take. Terrorism is a bad thing, says France, and adds that a response to terrorism on France can include nuclear attack (said by president Shirak not so long ago) . But – if terrorism is targeting Israel and Israeli citizens, well, they can live with it. After all, the Muslims just want to protest the occupation. Let me remind you: Israel left Lebanon more than six years ago. It withdrew from Gaza almost a year ago, but in return to this steps Israel gets rocket attacks to its civilian territories. Don’t try to say Israel attacks Gaza and Lebanon over 3 kidnapped soldiers. It is only part of the big picture in which terror groups launch missiles on populated areas. What would you do if your cities were attacked in this way? Sit and do nothing? I don’t think so!!! I just want to tell all of you my European friends, we are not the last address of Islam’s fundamentalism, we are just getting hit first since we’re on the front line with the Arab world. You encourage recent attacks on Israeli cities and town from rockets launched from Gaza and from Lebanon, by ignoring the fact those launches even happen and are taking lives of Israeli civilians. By only covering the Palestinian and Lebanese casualties, by not condemning Terrorism and abductions on a sovereign land, you encourage more actions like these. And by doing so, you call them upon your doorstep, from within your society. There are millions of Muslims in Europe just waiting for a call upon Jihad. The feel Allah is with them now. We call upon you to wake up, Europe, and face the problems. Try to find alternative energy sources, like the Japanese do, since they got fed up with the Arab world “oil politics”. The Arab world buy your silence with oil, and you swallow it. Another point for your thoughts: Why when Japan wants to launch a preemptive strike on North Korea, which only tested missiles is not condemned, but when Palestinians or Lebanese invade Israel and take lives, (of civilians too if you check closely not just on the headlines), and Israel in acts of self defense attack those territories, is seen as an aggressor?! By trying to look deep into the situation and condemning such acts as they begin, demanding the full stop of missiles launching to Israeli territories, Israel could avoid the measures it is taking now, saving hundreds of lives for all sides involved.
12. Israel could present story better
Steve G ,   Kew Gardens,NYC   (07.23.06)
The stories I read do not do the best possible job explaining the reasons targets in Lebanon are being hit. A daily IAF and IDF press event showing photographs and explanations of example targeting would help considerably. "Here's a garage with a missile battery on the roof or next to it. Here's a picture of it being destroyed. Here it is again. This is the way Hezbollah endangers the Lebanese population with their reckless tactics." "Here's a Hezbollah arms depot being destroyed. Look at the secondary explosions showing it was an arms depot." These methods work. Israel should have one "here they are and we got them" event every day....with pictures. The Israeli government's efforts to put unaccented Eng;lish spokespersons out front has helped, but there is more to be done.
13. Well put!
Solomon ,   Brighton, UK   (07.23.06)
When the politicians start putting the facts forward as they are, rather than the 'politically correct' alternative that ‘may’ get a couple of allies, we can then demand and expect the leftist media to be (a little) more sympathetic. Iraq was attacked to rid the free world of dictator Saddam and co. - that includes, but not exclusively, the potential making of WMD's. Israel has launched a defensive to protect its citizens from Hezbollah - that includes, but not exclusively, the release of our kidnapped soldiers. Say it how it is - it will pay in the medium and long term!
14. numbers remain same
haifa ,   miklat   (07.23.06)
i have been watching with interest both CNN and Sky and notice that the numbers of Lebanese dead started off at over 350 then went down to 300 and then back to 350 what happened were they miracously ressurected...on the other hand I feel like we shud apologise for our dead, which do not appear to equate those on the other side..and even tho people have been killed the numbers remain the same for israel..doesnt that seem a tad strange..or am i the only one who has noticed it??
15. Is Israeli media right
Akbar Ahmad ,   India   (07.23.06)
I have seen the contents of the news on different Isreaeli online newspapers today. Their reporting is totally biased as they have just talked about two killings by rockets, not hundreds of Lebanese killed during Israeli airstrikes.
16. Nobody told us
Itzik ,   Haifa   (07.23.06)
Nobody told us that Hizbullah will attack Israel. Olmert promissed to change the remaining TV stations so that no "right-wing extremists" will be on radio and TV. Sharon's gang bought Jpost and made it the Kadima propaganda paper. Olmert was lifted to the stature of of god before the elections. Soldiers in a single tank were sent to Lebanon the first day. They were not informed because it could have destroyed Olmert's convergence.
17. Setting the facts straight
Arie   (07.23.06)
Israel was attacked. We WILL defend ourselves. If you are all so concerned as to the alleged disproportionate death toll, then blame the PA and the lebanese government for not reigning in their criminal elements. I know that london paris and madrid have surrendered to islamofascism but we will not, no matter how many enemy must die.
18. Denise ,Porto Alegre # 6
keren ,   sao paulo   (07.23.06)
Hesbollah PURPOSELY,hides among civilians. Civilians were told to leave the risky areas,and not all did it. And ,Brasil has been accused for being NEGLIGENT in rescuing its citizens. This is a fact!They could have helped in a swifter way and they didn't. Blame those to be blamed ,please! Ignorance hurts! And yes,Venezuela's leader is an idiot ,medling in issues that don't belong to his area ,which should be venezuelan people,and at most latin america,not more than that!
19. Sever,
keren ,   sao paulo   (07.23.06)
And the midia has not been focusing AT ALL,in the destruction and havoc ISRAEL has endured.
20. Media Massacre Frenzy: CNN
Paqid 16, Netzarim ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (07.23.06)
CNN repeatedly broadcasts Khizb-Allah's specious argument that they are native to, and representative of, Lebanon. However, CNN doesn't bother to inform either that Khizb-Allah is a minority in Lebanon or that the implication of the specious Khizb-Allah argument is that the penetration across our international border to attack Israel, therefore, was an act of war by the country of Lebanon - making the entire country of Lebanon responsible and accountable, deserving complete destruction and conquering. Lebanese who aren't complicit in the attack "by Lebanon" (according to Khizb-Allah) need to speak up or bear the consequences. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il (website not working properly due to war)
21. You want to stop the killing?
Adam ,   Raanana, Israel   (07.23.06)
Give us our soldiers back and get your God damned terrorist pigs to stop firing missiles. Of course we started this all. You people make me laugh. And as far as that Israel to Lebanon website goes... Pallywood is calling...
22. Essay
Andy ,   Michigan   (07.23.06)
Nice essay. Unfortunately, most of the press in the USA is getting "tours" by Hez. of selected areas of S. Beirut and cities south. It is annoying as hell! On the other hand, I feel bad for all the civilians that have been displaced, but the price that has to be paid for allowing a mercenary army to control 1/3 of a country and then drag it into a war *without* the okay of the democratically elected government is going to be war. War is what we have.
23. BBC finally admits.....
Yisraeli   (07.23.06)
BBC Admits Many Lebanese Casualties are Terrorists 15:22 Jul 23, '06 / 27 Tammuz 5766 (IsraelNN.com) The British Broadcasting Corp. (BBC) has admitted that many of the victims of Israeli retaliation in Lebanon are terrorists and not innocent civilians. A BBC reporter said he saw Hizbullah terrorists using a private home and added, "It is difficult to quantify who is a terrorist and who is a civilian." Media reports have emphasized that Israeli air strikes have killed more than 350 Lebanese civilians, prompting accusations that the IDF is carrying out "collective punishment" on the country.
24. Does labanon desrve it for real
Kid ,   Saudi   (07.23.06)
Dear Tony Saber, who sent this adress http://fromisraeltolebanon.info/ My friend, dont waste your time trying to talk to the israelis, even if u show them the worest pic. about how thier soldiers killing the palastinian and labenese kids, they actully dont care, i have seen the site, which was really disgusting, and they talk about peace, just imagine how the world would be, if there was no country called israel, they made it for us.
25. Carlo Rovello
Jane   (07.23.06)
Carlo, our fight is for you too. This is about much more than Hezbullah. This is about all Islamic terrorism and particularly Iran's attempt at hegemony. Have patience, Carlo.
26. The basic problem
Alexei ,   Tel Aviv   (07.23.06)
The basic problem is that the Hizbollah vs. Lebanon dichotomy isn't true to begin with - Israel glommed onto this false dichotomy to justify its actions. In fact, Israel doesn't need to justify its self-defensive actions - once a country attacks another, it forfeits the right to exist. We are making a huge mistake in targeting buildings and arms, instead of the people who will rebuild them even stronger and still be there, 10, 20 years from now.
27. Self-righteous nonsense...
Artem ,   Moscow   (07.23.06)
Dear Sir, it is clear that you yourself have not visited Lebanon in general, or Beirut in particular in the period that you qre describing. Truth be told, neither have I, but I do have some very unfortunate friends that have the bad luck of being in Beirut during the conflict. The IDF has has been consistently and cold-heartedly the vital infrastructure of the country. Since the end of Israeli occupation Lebanon has developed a healthy economy and became an attraction for investment, something that Israel was not prepared to face. Now the country is left without means to produce or distribute electricity, gas and water. Road freight is all but impossible due to crippling of major roads. Foreign trade is dead, as the country is blockaded completely by air and sea. True, the actual casualties are fairly small, albeit the execution of 360 men by means of airstrike without trial is simply wrong, but the economy of the country is being damaged and will already take decades to recover. Israel is not waging war on Hezbollah, it is destroying Lebanon's economical foundations. Actions of Hezbollah are condemnable, but no more so than Israel's.
28. Is Israel Media Right? (Akbar Ahmad, India #15)
Paqid 16, Netzarim ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (07.23.06)
Khizb'Allah, Hamas & other terrorists make it their practice to entrench themselves among civilians, peeking out from under their women's skirts to fire between their children, then fleeing to leave their women & children to become "martyrs." It's a miracle that for every 180 Islamic terrorists killed there isn't another ADDITIONAL 540 "women and children" killed. It's a tribute to IDF surgical precision that there were only 180 or less of their human shield "martyrs" killed. Do women and children each get 72 virgins too? Those 72 virgins sure do make the rounds. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il (website not working properly due to war)
Many people in my community of Crown Heights don't buy newpapers any more because they feel journalitsts are liars. Thousands of Jews in religious communities have stopped buying the NY Times. When the Moshiach comes, it is written, those that acted like animals and liars will be very embarrassed-here in "enlightened, honest and fair" America and Europe. When the journalists children start lying and stealing (one sin leads to another) they'll be upset: why did you lie? These "journalists" have only to look at themeselves and their publishers. Where are the "adults?" The Poisoned Pen.
30. Israel's PR is terrible.
Yehuda ,   Seattle   (07.23.06)
Just like with Jenin, why does Israel not have a response to these published lies. Our country and Army are doing themselves a huge disservice by allowing false claims to linger - as eventually they are taken to be the truth. Many people still think that Jenin was a massacre and they did not bother following the news that revealed the facts later. Israel must address that many of the killed are Hizbollah - Dan Gillerman at the UN needs to be given facts and now. I know that those who hate Israel will always hate Israel, but there are many sitting on the fence with emotions tilting against Israel. We need to have facts on the effect the Hizbollah / Lebanese have had on northern Israel repeated at the UN. We cannot continue to count only on Evangelical Christians for their blind loyalty and terrible motives - we need to enable sensible non-jews to stand up for Israel.
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