Opinion  Others
No Katyushas at Rabin Square
Yoram Kaniuk
Published: 23.07.06, 20:36
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23 Talkbacks for this article
1. finally, a delliusinal lefty is waking up!
oded   (07.23.06)
but you ned to wake up your daughter ,and the rest of the bleeding hearts, anarchists, who call themselves jews...... but you seem to get it now... at last. the arabs will not accept a jewish entity in thier midst. that's the bottom line, and until they do , or history forces them to , there's no chance of reaching a peacfull solution. and no , israel is not for all of its citizens- we read this book already-- israel is a jewish state only. and chomsky can go and live in s. beirut , for all i care .
2. why is there no talkbacks
3. Great words...
dani ,   raanan   (07.23.06)
Self hatred far-left.... wake up!
4. Bravo!
Aida S. ,   Winnipeg, Canada   (07.23.06)
This is the kind of article that lifts your spirit and sparks your mind. Thank you,
5. Very nicely written article.
Andy   (07.23.06)
6. What is going on?
Alex ,   LA, USA   (07.23.06)
Why all these leftists, like Beilin, Peres/z, Koniuk, Sneh, etc saying some things now. Are they prepared to go to jail, or a comission will be established in Israel? Why not to post something by somebody with a high school diploma in place of these loosers?
7. hey ynet translators (re Noam Chomsky)
iddo   (07.23.06)
There's a better translation of the Hebrew words in the 'about/liberals' section here: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky BTW, if anyone is interested in what Chomsky actually said when he visited Lebanon two months ago, instead of reading the op-ed piece that ynet linked to his name here, see these links: http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1152 video: http://www.memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S5&P1=10# http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1136 video: http://www.memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=1136 To read a more detailed account of his visit to Lebanon by one of the people who organized it, see: http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=22&ItemID=10568 And to see what he said about the situation in Lebanon a few days ago, see: http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/14/146258
8. Israeli Arabs - the enemy in our midst?
David ,   Karmiel   (07.23.06)
They work among us and we buy from them. They drive taxis and buses and are a large part of the civil service. The are professionals and they are tradesmen. They come into our homes and we go their the offices. However,are they loyal to the State of Israel? That is the question that they have forced us to ask. It’s not too late for the Arab community to come out sand how their loyalty to the country that feeds them, gives them all the rights that every citizen is entitled to and provides Social Security and Medical Cover. Surely, a civilized group of citizens does not bite the hand that feeds, particularly when that country has been attacked by a vicious and ruthless enemy who does not care whom they kill in their pursuit of hatred and the destruction of the State of Israel and all its people.
9. to # 1 and 8
marc ,   nyc   (07.23.06)
Hey, the burden of proof for good intention should lie on the shoulder of the occupier not the occupied. Oh sorry most of you don't even recognise there is an occupation or UN resolution at least when it comes to you but not to Iraq or lebanon. Barak distroyed the prospects of negotionations with his stupid mal intention tactics and Arafat's short sightedness slammed the last nail in the cofen of the peace process and the israeli left by starting the intifada. Still none of the above gives you carte blanch to turn your back on your original good jewish manners killing mostly civilians and kids, collective punishment is what the Nazis did to others, akcnowledging the distinction between ethnic cleansing and complete anihilation (Nazis) versus lethal indiscriminate force with little regard to civilians (israel's army) still the fact is both prescribe to the ugly principal of collective punishment. Enjoy your authentic jewish manners, Moses is looking down on you with pride.
10. No katushas in Rabin Square
Pircha Lottner ,   Petach Tikva   (07.23.06)
Yoram, Finally, After so many years, you & I are on the same side. The side of truth, faith &logic. Enough of the divide, enough of the 1/2 truths. 2 years in Washington taught me that it was Israel that wanted the "quick fix", the disengagment. My Amerian friends thought we were committing suicide. My Arab friends knew that the Hhamas would win, our leaders kept their blinders on. The good people of Gush Katif staved off with their bodies the deathly arsenal from the terrorists in the South. We treated them like dirt. Al kaida is entenched in Sinai, sending its tenecals to Judea & Sameria & all we said was ;"Disengagment:, the cure for it all. Please G-d, lets hope our people finally woke up. We are fighting for our lives, for the simple right to exist in our land.
11. to the author
bryan ,   tampa   (07.24.06)
u conveniently forgot Hizbulla attacked soldiers initially not civilians because they wanted a prisonter swap. Their prisoners according to you should not go free because they have jewish blood on their hand. So basically it's ok for Abu Mazen to shake or kiss sharon's bloody hand with the sabra and shatila massacre and for sadat to shake Begin's bloody hand with the Deir yassin village. It's not a secret that every single israeli primeminister with a military background Personally ha civilian arab blood on their hand, Barack, Sharon....etc. but our prisoners who have jewish blood must rotten in prison for ever. As Rabin once said, you make peace with your Enemies not with your friends by definition, but none of you understood it. Jewish notion of ''God's chosen people" is what? is it not utter superiority or racism? what 's the difference betwn that and the Wahabis? Finally, Samson the great, the jewish youth in the Warso Ghetto and the historical jewish inhabitants of the MOSAD village ALL commited suicide killing their enemies because they were facing a rutheless crushing military force bound on their destruction....sound familiar? if you're gonna tell me they did not kill civilians like hamas did in the pizzaria...etc my answer is have you ever seen a more militarized population on the face of the earth than the israelis? my best freind got beaten up in nablus for 1 days by the IDF because they suspected he was hamas, one little problem is that he is an arab christian..so much for a discrimanotry force. what was Goldstein? a hero? did not all the suicide attacks start with him? the first step in reaching a solution is to put yourself in the other's shoes.
12. bryan - you are wrong, please read
David Lewis ,   Petah Tikva   (07.24.06)
Goldstein did not start the suicide bombings - they started before his criminal act. BUT - even if he did (which they didn't) his actions were completely condoned by the Israeli public and government. He is not a "shaheed" and is considered by most Jews and Israelis as a man who got what he deserved.
13. To David Lewis #12 -
Cassandra ,   Pacific Coast   (07.24.06)
I hope you meant to say that Godstein's actions were condemned (and not condoned) by the Israeli public...The only ones who condoned it - indeed celebrated it as a "Purim Miracle" - were Hanan Porat, his Messianic disciples, and the JDL'niks.
14. whoops - I ment condemned #13...
David Lewis ,   Petah Tikva   (07.24.06)
whoops - I ment condemned... was late and I was tired when I wrote that post... thanks #13
15. This guy is a complete wacko
Ilan ,   Ariel   (07.24.06)
The respectable thing to do would be to shut himself into his home and never leave again. Just go away. We don't need your half-confessions it won't ever undo the damage you've caused our society.
16. Well, it's about time you came to your senses!
AB ,   The Rock   (07.24.06)
May many more do the same. The truth is slapping everyone in the face. Those that haven't turned their heads around are those who love to be slapped and/or are desperate for the world's sympathy.
17. to #12 and 13
Bryan ,   nyc   (07.24.06)
Goldstein has a sacred monument in keryat arba close to Hebron, a settlement supported by your taxes. I don't remmeber suicide attacks before him, not on the scale the palastinian community launched or praised. The "engineer" who started it all did so after Goldstein's action. " You condemned him in rhetoric but did u say let's evacuate the 400 jewish wackos in the heart of hebron who dictate and paralyse the economic and social activities of a 120,000 palastinian? God forbid your leaders would deprive you of the lousiest card in case they need it in negotionations. Well here's the result..... We both know that this is when things started going south. Actions speak louder than words. You have a "democratic society"" offcourse only as far as jews are concerned, so u have no excuse .....why did u let the settlers take your peace and future a hostage like hizbulla did with the lebanese? A jewish american freind of mine got his car stoned while he got lost in an orthodox neighberhood in jerusalem on the sabath. This is the kind of mentality the palastinians are asked to "co-exist with" a mentality that is not tolerant to even liberal jews? so u can begin to imagine the beligerance, hatred and daily humiliation they direct at the palastinians supported by an army that is an efficient killing machine as far as civilians and Betsalim's statistics are concerned. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? that after all of that...you're suprised they blow themselves up? Give them apaches and F16s and they won't send a single bomber. they don't have to........like you
18. Congratulations Kaniuk
Gordon Shifman ,   Shoham, Israel   (07.24.06)
Good on you Mr, Kaniuk! I may not be one of your greatest fans at all times, but you got it right this time.
19. comment from Beirut
Wael ,   Beirut   (07.24.06)
As a Lebanese citizen living in Beirut, I would like to highlight some important facts here. First of all, let me say as a peace activist that I don't think that the Lebanese resistance or commonly known Hezbollah forces have the right to kill civilians, and I condemn them on this issue. I will not go into the atrocities done against the Jewish people, because I guess you all know about them very well. BUT there are a lot of facts that most international public don't know about: 1- Just as the Israeli public are being bombarded by messages that Muslims want to destroy Israel (which by the way is not true), we are also bombarded by the expansion policy of Israel. Since we were young we have been told of the old Zionist dream of occupying the Promised Land between the Nile and Furat rivers. 2- Just as you have been told that Islamic doctrines are not tolerant of others, we are also seeing that the Jewish state is differentiating between the jews and Arab Israelis (second class citizens), as also apparent in the article and talkbacks. I personally believe having a state based on religion (Islamic or Jewish) will only serve to alienate the other groups. 3- I noticed in the article that there is no differentiation between Arabs and Muslims. First, let me tell you that in a lot of Arab states Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and also Palestine (pre 1948) there are many different religions. In Lebanon there are as around 16 recognized religions, and as many Christians as Muslims. There were Jews living in Lebanon as well as Palestine before the Arab-Israeli conflict. So, it is not true that Muslims can not accept a different national entity in its midst. 4- When Israel retreated from the South of Lebanon, many here in Lebanon said Hezbollah defeated the Israeli army. I personally, believe it was a good act from Israel. The problem is Israel did not finish what it started. There were still Lebanese prisoners in Israeli prisons, Israeli fighters continuously violated the Lebanese air space, Israel did not submit the maps for mines that they have planted in South Lebanon, and of course there is the issue of the disputed Shebaa farms. Ok… even if they are Syrian, they are still not Israeli, and they are occupied land. So the Israeli withdrawal was as if you buy me a car but without the steering wheel. Simply, the car will not work, and also peace will not work with the Israeli withdrawal. To many of us, it appeared as if Israel did not complete its withdrawal, just to say to the world that “ok, we gave them land, and they still are fighting”. If Israel genuinely wants peace with Lebanon, it has to fulfill the above mentioned points, and I can assure you that we Lebanese citizens will work to prevent any attack from Lebanese ground on Israel. Just by withdrawing from South of Lebanon, opposition to Hezbollah grew, and attacks on Israel were reduced to a fraction, and were concentrated only in the small area of Shibaa farms. Imagine if Israel completed its act of good will… I wouldn’t have had to write this comment now.
20. ....
Its a horrible tragedy with all thats going on. I am an Arab Muslim and I deeply condemn everything going on from both sides. However there is so much blame upon lebanon and hizballa about casualties amongst civilians...how many lebanese civilians have the IDF murdered. It goes both ways, however the numbers vary, more lebanese civilians have died. You say the enemy doest care whom they kill, may be true but this is also a true statement regarding Israel. Bombing everything in its paths without regards to any civilian that may be in their way. Again this is horrible for both countries, both religions, and all the civilians but do not turn your heads to what your country is doing and place all blame on Lebanon.
22. Kaniuk wakes up from his Peace Now Dreams
Dudu ,   Kfar Sava   (07.25.06)
23. To number 19, Wael
Allan ,   london   (07.26.06)
Wael, Very nice statements about the differences between Israel and the surrounding arab states / people. Its a shame that you say you are taught that Israel wants to occupy from the Nile to the Euphrates, well thats just arab lies. Whereas, Hamas and Hizbollah policy is to wipe out Israel, push the people into the sea and set up the new Islamic Caliphate. So perhaps on that point you can see why Israel will never sit down and discuss peace with Hamas/Hizbollah, because its impossible. You cannot sit down with people who want to exterminate you. So you should be saying what can the arab states offer Israel to withdraw. Not the other way round, as look what happened when Israel withdrew from Gaza? Qassam rockets /suicide bombings and kidnappings. Look what happened when Israel withdrew from Lebanon, exactly the same, and funded by Iranian money/troops and weapons. So tell me, what will the Arab world do to offer peace to Israel? Why should Israel return land that is theirs? For more rockets? maybe with Chemical weapons next time. Lastly, Hizbollah hides (as cowards do) in civilian areas and launches from those areas, targetting cities in Israel. What should Israel do? Look at those missle launchers and do nothing??
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