Opinion  Others
Mistaken path
David Grossman
Published: 26.07.06, 10:45
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51 Talkbacks for this article
31. Grossman's Had His Way For Years
Dan Friedman ,   NYC, USA   (07.27.06)
I saw this mediocre novelist peddling the same Peace Now line 22 years ago at a Reform synagogue in S.F. Of course, Israel listened to him then and it produced Oslo, the withdrawal from Lebanon, the disengagement from Gaza - all of which have been disasters. In other words, every bit of Grossman's advice has become Israeli policy and blown up in Israel's face. The problem with hacks like Grossman is they only have one story in them and no matter how they dress it up the ending is always the same. More dead Jews.
32. weapons
N Carroll ,   London, England   (07.27.06)
Uncle Bob, re my last letter to you. How do you feel about your taxes being spent on the nice shiny new 5000lb bombs just shipped by the good ol US of A to Israel so that they can make bigger bangs and murder more civilians than ever. Don't you Americans ever get a glimpse of the real truth, not Israeli truth or Fox News Truth. You have got a computer, read some real newspapers. N C.
33. Peace
Rick ,   Baltimore USA   (07.27.06)
I am not an Israeli. I am not a Jew. I am not an Arab. I am not a Muslim. I live "safely" in America. I try to be a Christian. I am 59 years old. But I can still learn new tricks. I have recently read more about the "conflict." As I now see it, Israel has no choice but to fight. On July 26 Nasrallah says that he doesn't want land. He wants to kill as many Israelis as he can. If you give up the territories you will only get another state that wants to kill Israelis. The PA's object is not necessarily statehood but the extermination of Jews at the command of Allah. "Peace," in those circumstances, is an illusion. It is a noble thing to love peace and to be a peace maker. As a famous Jewish man once said "Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the chilren of G_d." I cannot argue with peace and the desire for peace. That is a noble aim. However, as Nevil Chamberlain found out, appeasement is a dead end. WInston Churchhill said that he never condemned Chamberlain because his goal was so noble. However Chamberlain's method was disaster. Given the power of other nation states in Israel's area, appeasement equals suicide.
34. N Carroll (32)
sk ,   USA   (07.27.06)
N Carroll sez: "Uncle Bob, re my last letter to you. How do you feel about your taxes being spent on the nice shiny new 5000lb bombs just shipped by the good ol US of A to Israel so that they can make bigger bangs and murder more civilians than ever." I'm sure Bob has plenty to say, NC, but I have a comment, too. I am happy to pay for lots of bombs if Israel will be using them. I don't have any doubt that Israel will use them well, and I sure don't trust the BBC or al-Reuters to keep me current on how they are used. I expect that Israel will be at least as concerned about innocent civilians (if there are any) than the US would be, and I am perfectly willing to shift the risk to Israel, purely out of self-interest, you understand. What I REALLY don't like is funding Europe's defense, which the US has done since WW2, and then being "thanked" with insults and gripes by the likes of you. I also don't like spending one dime on the worthless UN, just so third-rate militaries powers ike yours (and fourth-rate ones like Russia and fifth-rate ones like France) get to sit around in the "security council" and do generally immoral things and despense idiotic advice on the European conception of good government.
35. to rick ,,,no trick
layla ,   amman   (07.27.06)
whatever you ae but if yo believe on go ,,,you must know that the power is given by the god ,,the kiling is the wll of a man ..but sur the death ,the time of death is the wi of god ,,but to live in peace or continouse war is the choice of people ,,i hope the choice wil be the peace ,,to the palastinians and israil ,and to you mr rick
36. "I am a simple man."
Barry ,   ny, ny   (07.27.06)
A simpleton would be more accurate. Quoting Hamas as wanting an agreement - good grief - and you believe them! It's amazing how far down in the sand some people choose to stick their heads. Do everyone a favor and go live in Sderot or Nahariya for a while.
37. Hi Mr. Grossman
someone from Canada   (07.27.06)
I'm not Jewish. I suppose I'm what you'd consider a Christian by genetic association only. I live in Canada and have an Israeli friend who told me about this website because I wanted to know more about the country and what is going on. The Canadian media only shows the Lebanese side so.... I read your article. It is interesting but seems to reflect a very naive standpoint. I myself am a liberal but if Canada was bombarded by rockets day after day after day (from the north and the south), I would expect my country to defend its citizens even if it meant fatalities on the other side. Seeking peace is not only noble, it is necessary but NOT AT ANY COST. Your quest seems a bit fictional, considering the part of the world you live in but you ARE a writer (and a poet?)... Just wanted to share my thoughts. Thank you and good night
38. Good Plan!
Rahn W. ,   Vancouver, BC   (07.27.06)
What ever happened to that trillion dollar plan to dig a tunnel from the Mediterranean to the Dead Sea, and make all kinds of energy for electricity and fresh water from sea water? Partner up with the Palestinians on that one, and plant the Garden of Eden in Palestine and Israel. Everyone will be so busy working and making money, and too tired to fight anymore...
39. #37
Aulee ,   USA   (07.27.06)
Don't you think the situation would become a little more complicated if those rockets were launched by native north americans who wanted to have their country back?
40. N Carroll
Allan ,   london   (07.27.06)
Well considering that Hezbollah is being armed by Iran and Syria, I'd say its fair that Israel gets armed through the US. No copmplaints by me. Personally I am so sick of your whinging about Israel and the US, its pretty tiring. Try thinking that Israel population 6 million Jews, now compare to the Muslim world. Over 1 Billion...and rising... So whos the one with the muscle? Perhaps you should be asking why isnt the Islamic world ready to accept Israel and offer a fair peace? Not the withdrawls as why should Israel withdraw, hasnt worked so far has it.
41. earth to Grossman (aka RIP Van Winkle)
Rob ,   USA NJ   (07.27.06)
Israel already disengaged from Gaza. They send Kassams into Israel. Either you have been asleep for the last 20 years or you have a mental disease called Israeli Liberalism. WAKE THE HELL UP! THE ROCKETS ARE FALLING.
42. #39, Riiiiiighht
Your Uncle Bob ,   Washington, DC   (07.27.06)
...because the Jews were never there before 1948, right? There were no traces of Jewish occupation of Palestine going back, say, 3000 years? Right. Pure myth. The Palestinians obviously have been the sole heir to the land since creation.
43. #42
NAME HERE ,   USA   (07.27.06)
I AGREEEEEE! I dont know if this will get through. But i am from the USA and i dont understand how Israel is looked at as a state. How so and why? The native American point is a good one. Look at that scenario. What would you say about that? Please allow this comment to post, for discussion. Im not anti-semtic, I am curious to know others views!
44. Making "Peace" with *Who?"
Adrian Werner ,   U.S.A.   (07.27.06)
Yes, you are well-meaning and as you say, just "a simple man." But you, too, fall into that trap of soft-hearted people who (like children) wish to believe that those who want to KILL you actually want some kind of a deal!! Even after Hezbollah's attack after the Israeli withdrawal, you JUST DON'T GET IT--the ONLY deal that is wanted from the Arabs is the total destruction of your country. Oh, you can make a short-term deal--but that is just a ruse to continue armed "resistance." Resistance to WHAT you say?? Your very existence. Read the behavior and stop reading the language.... There is NOTHING in the behavior of the Palestinians that suggests they want a separate state. If they did and hadn't VOTED for a terror group bound to your DEATH, then billions of dollars would have been pouring in to create that state. But No....the Jews/Israel is too sore a reminder to the Arab world of the failure of their culture/states--so Israel must be wiped out. This is the reality.
45. Right to Peace
Raquel ,   UK   (07.28.06)
46. Peace is THE only option
W. Carruthers ,   UK   (07.28.06)
Palestine is Semitic land. It should be peacefully tended by Arabs and Jews alike. I seem to recall in 1917, after the Balfour declaration, the Zionist movement paying lip service to words such as 'tolerance', 'peace', and 'respect for Palestinian culture and religion in the shared land'. Funny how things changed almost the minute the state of Israel was recognised as a legal entity. Israel Eretz exhibits the same ugly violent racist tendencies that the world came to abhor when the real tragedy of the Second World War was revealed. And who are all these settlers who arrived in Israel in the 60's, 70’s and 80's and occupied land and dwellings seized from the Palestinian title deed holders? They seem to be the white trash, trailer park Jews from Eastern Europe and third world countries. They are the uneducated masses, greedily grabbing whatever they can get their grubby hands on, without a thought for the welfare of anyone but themselves. They contribute nothing but small taxes and selfishness to their adoptive country and only serve to give Israelis a bad name. What about the rich cultural and academic traditions of liberal, open-minded Jews? Their voices are being drowned out by the chorus of hatred emanating from the military and the settlers. Surely it’s obvious. Give back to the Palestinians what is rightfully theirs. Redraw the map of Israel and Palestine so that two states exist fairly. Even kindergarten children looking at today’s map could see that the distribution of land is grossly unfair. Persuade the US to invest in the Palestinian State too. You'd be amazed how good infrastructure and a thriving economy might stem the tide of resentment and hatred that flows from the hearts of young Palestinian men. People need respect. They also need good schools and hospitals, and jobs so they can feed their families with pride. Only fools and psychopaths believe that military action will eventually bring peace. For goodness sake, let the women and children out of prison, stop fighting on behalf of that cabal of madmen known as the US administration and consider this: Israeli-Arab relations would be better served by a yearly football tournament, where men get to play war, leaving women and children to get on with the real business of work, food, education and love.
47. Oslo, then Hamas - Hello, are you there?
John Wadsworth ,   San Jose, CA (USA)   (07.28.06)
Dear Author, You advocate a "reasonable arrangement with the Palestinians." What was Oslo, if not a reasonable arrangement with Palestinians? Where happened to the good faith of the Palestinians in making a peace accord - which they apparently never intended to keep? How could one argue they had peaceful intentions when all their "peace" talk was just that, talk; while, at the same time, they preached bloody jihad against Israel to their children? Arafat duped the Nobel Prize committee with his words while arabic television had him preaching violence. You really didn't see that? Oh, and then there's Hamas. Hamas' charter specifies the group's aim is to destroy Israel. And you know what else? The adult, voting arab population of Palestine knew this was part of Hamas' ideology when they voted them into office by a sizeable majority. If one put two and two together, one discovers that the Palestinian Arabs voted for Israel's destruction when it elevated Hamas to power. And you know what else? Hamas' goal is not radical departure from Islam; it is quite orthodox to them. (See Koran, Surahs 2:190-193, 3:28, 4:76, 5:51, 8:39, 9:5, 9:29, 9:73, 9:111, 9:123, 47:4, 48:29.) Here's something else I think you forgot. The Palestinians had a golden opportunity to possess a lot more land. They could have accepted the '47 partition plan. They didn't want that. Oh yes, and then there's U.N. resolution 242 that would have required Israel to give up occupied land. But they didn't want that either, because it would have required them to live in peace with Israel and acknowledge its right to exist. They expressly don't want that, and voted Hamas into office to prove it. I just want to known - with whom do you really believe you will be able to make a LASTING "reasonable arrangement"?
48. Been there, done that
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (07.28.06)
David Grossman must have been asleep for the past 20 years, like Rip Van Winkle.
49. Mistaken Path?
mark bellm ,   fort bragg, CA. USA   (07.30.06)
As an american non-jew, I read your article "Mistaken Path." I must say, that the true mistaken path was "land for peace." This nonsense only reveals the lack of understanding who these Islamo-facsist really are. I TRULY believe, that there will be NO peace, until all of Israel, including Jerusalem, and the west bank are clearly and totally in Israeli hands. Our government is pursuing this "two state solution" nonsense, and it will NOT work. Islamic fanatics will NEVER allow the Jewish people a moments rest. To trust them is FATAL. Life is hard and brutal at times, and Israel must act with decisively and look reality in the eye. Why do our liberals, and Israel's left wing think otherwise? Listen, most of the world does not view John Lennon with respect, and this left wing mantra of "give peace a chance" is SUICIDE when applying it to Hamas, PLO, IRAN, etc. I believe the settlers are TOTALLY justified in living and occupying thier own land. I'm sorry, but I no longer believe that Islamic arabs want peace; they want Israel and the jewish peoples extinction!
50. Land for peace?
Tamera Weis ,   Sioux Falls, SD, USA   (07.31.06)
Here here to Mark Belim (mistaken path? 7/03/06) Where in the world, any time in history, has a country been asked to give back land which was aquired when three OTHER countries came against them and attempted to wipe them from the face of the earth?? In six days, out numbered one to one hundred, going into battle fasting, in a miracle from G'd, the Israeli Army took the land in a move which preserved Israel's continued existence. As the nonaggressor country against Syria, Egypt, and Jordan in the six day war of 1967 where the sole mission of the other three countries was to divide Israel among them--- WHY SHOULD ISRAEL GIVE BACK A SINGLE FOOT OF LAND??? These countries attacked Isreal not the other way around.This is asking too much! No other country has ever been asked to make such a gesture. Israel must stand her ground and all nations who stand behind her stand in the right--those who ask her to give up that which she aquired when attacked are punishing the victim and should be called on to apologize. The Arab nations have 99.9% of the Middle East land. In comparison-- of a football field--- that translates to Israel having a 1 foot by 1 foot area while the Arab nations divide the rest of the football field. There are plenty of places for the Arab nations to go they just don't want peace. They want it all and the nations of the world should get behind Israel and say "shame on the Arab nations!"
51. We're Tired Of Paying For Leftist Arrogance & Idiocy
Ken ,   Toronto, Canada   (07.31.06)
Grossman is not saying anything new. His "path" is the disastrous path that has led to the murder of thousands of Jews, maiming of tens of thousands of Jews - and now rockets hitting Israel's major cities. Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. A child, of average intelligence, can predict the result of Israel's retreats and withdrawls - more terror, more dead Jews and endangerment of Israel. Thal is all Grossman's path has ever produced and all it can produce. Israel needs new leaders and a completely new path of self respect, strength and no concessions. Concessions are "painful" for the same reason it is painful to touch a hot stove. It's a dumb thing to do.
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