"This country's wars are won by the seculars. " Funny.... they don't look secular to me... http://masoret.hevre.co.il/hydepark/topic.asp?topic_id=1990937

ive got 2 sons on the northern front what are you doing??????? sitting at home complaining on the internet or sitting in your air conditioned shul praying

obviously you are one of the army of god have you spent some time in the IDF i doubt it

at least there one voice of sanity in these talkbacks

"what are you doing??????? sitting at home complaining on the internet or sitting in your air conditioned shul praying " Neither. I work. The army didn't want me. Too old, it seems. Sorry, nice try!

"at least there one voice of sanity in these talkbacks " I don't call hatred for fellow Jews that you and jjj have spewed here a 'voice of sanity'. For once YNet does an article on what the religious community that is not serving in the army is doing and the positive affects that it has. Whether it's praying on behalf of the IDF or going to the frontlines and volunteering to help those in need. And instead of continuing with the positive, you have to attack those who are doing chesed. It's too bad that you have such blind hatred for your own religion and fellow Jews, that you cannot see even the slightest good that they are doing.

I am calling all Christian brethens from Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Philippines, Brunei to come and join hands in prayer for God's protection, confort and blessing upon the folks caught in the cross fight in Israel and Lebanon. I know that God bless you.

That makes sense, use the Midrash to prove a point about the importance of religioin . .. that is the essence of circular thinking .. . and why orthodox Judiasim is the downfall of our country.

Allow me to refer to a war that we actually have PROOF of, The Independence War, The Six Day War, The Yom Kippur War, The Lebannon War (1&2) . .. those were all fought by mainly secular Jews, it was mainly secular Jews who died. Our enemies are not vanquished thru prayers AT ALL, it is unfortunately thru bullets in the short term and then hopefully through education in the long term. Stop using the Torah to prove that the Torah is right .. . common sense and rational thinking doesn't work that way.

That is not a good excuse .. . I was also too old for the army when I made Aliyah, but I volunteered for full service because I wanted to give back to my country in a meaningful way . .. (praying doesn't count as a meaningful way!)

You can refer to any war you want – the fact is that religious Jews who believe in the torah & mitzvos are doing the fighting as well. Did you not see post # 31? This was the case in ’48, ’67, ’73, and ’82 and all the other unofficial wars, intifadas, & every other time there was any fighting going on. In fact, there were many religious casualties in the earlier wars. The holiest day of the year (regardless of whether or not you can relate to this, it is a very important thing to a your fellow human beings), Yom Kippur 1973, the shuls emptied out so that your father & my father could protect their wives, communities & country. Where did you get your stats from, anyway? How do you know that it’s mainly seculars who are in combat? Is that a fact? There is definitely a percentage of religious soldiers, including a full Peluga Chareidit, which is a combat unit, not to mention all the other dati’im mixed in with secular units! & if the amount of religious soldiers is 49% of the army, is that not okay? & if it’s relative to the ratio of frum to chiloni population, is that enough? What do you want? Did all the religious blood spilled not count?! And what of my comment that ALL chareidim would VOLUNTARILY enlist if needed? The IDF has more than enough soldiers & officers to do its job well. Is it only a problem because you’re upset that they’re “draft-dodgers”? Because your son has to go to the army before embarking on his road trip abroad, then university, then career in improving the world & making it a better place? We believe we are doing that the whole day, every day, skipping the middle steps. Which brings me to the next issue. This is all besides the fact that we believe in prayer as a help. The reason we are open-minded & believe in things other than what we can actually see (Midrash, wars which are fully documented in Jewish and World History), is because we believe in a God Who controls the world. If God forbid we lose the war, and get kicked out of our land and pushed into the sea, like our Arab enemies want, where would a Jewish non-believer be then? We always have what to fall back on – it’s the Will of God. We will never be abandoned! All Jews need to unite, and not go after each other’s throats. I am not trying to proselytize or force my views on you; I just want to get along. A united nation is a nation that will survive all obstacles. Let us see our salvation soon.

" why orthodox Judiasim is the downfall of our country" Can you explain then why Orthodox Judaism has been around nice and strong for 3300 years? Can you explain why the Orthodox are the ones moving and living here, while the secular are leaving? "Stop using the Torah to prove that the Torah is right .. . common sense and rational thinking doesn't work that way. " Common sense and rational thinking says that the Jewish people shouldn't be around today. However, thanks to the religious, it's still going strong. Statistics CLEARLY show that the chances of a secular Jew's greatgrandchildren being Jewish is quite low. While for the religious... well, that's why we're still here. "That is not a good excuse .. ." Tell the army that... they were the ones who said we don't want you.

"That makes sense, use the Midrash to prove a point about the importance of religioin . .. that is the essence of circular thinking .. ." If you read what I wrote, you'll see that I was using a Midrash to show you how Jews have fought their battles. Half on the physical and half on the spiritual. There's no circular thinking, I'm simply stating Jewish history.

My problem is with the religious that don't go into the army. In all reality, this is a much bigger discussion than just this war. It roots back to Ben Gurion not being willing to change the status quo, to the religious community trying to control the way that I practice my religion, to the religious controlling the way that I marry, etc . . . In any case, I don't have time for this . . . I just called up for reserve duty.

Let's just sum it up with this: Here you have an article about a group of religious Jews who are showing their concerning for their fellow Jews, BOTH religious and secular, through prayer and acts of kindness. Although they don't serve in the army, based off of religious beliefs, they are doing their part, according to the Torah, in helping those in need. On the other hand, we have you two, who, out of nowhere, attack these Jews simply because they are religious and don't serve in the army. Your hatred and ignorance towards Torah and a nice segment of the Jewish population is outstanding. While they are out showing kindness, you are out speaking loshon horah and degrading Jewish belief. I have no doubt that those reading these talkbacks and hearing the hatred you have for other Jews in your heart, would prefer to see more of those who love their fellow Jews than those like you that cannot contain your hatred for them, simply because they do not meet your standards. Perhaps by looking into the history of TIsha B'Av, you will see that one of the main causes of the destruction of Jerusalem was NOT who served and who didn't serve in the army. It was because of baseless hatred, which you have shown you have plenty of.

America needs to distance itself from this as much as possible and Americans should not support this.

good article (apart from the misspelling of G'd) shame that people focus on the petty arguements of old, we all are part of Am Yisrael and all contribute in our own way. My son is a Hesder (fighter)soldier and fights alongside so called "secular" soldiers but believe me, they don't mind the Yeshiva boys at all, they deeply respect them and act as a team. Not everyone can be "Kravi" a fighter, some are "jobnickim" - does that make them less important? NO, we need people at the front, we need others at the administration end, and we also need the prayers and the care of others who are not out in the front. A humbling but important message - you can't make it by yourself!