every thing I read in reference to Gaza uses the term "refugee camp". I presume it refers to the fact that these people must have been living elsewhere before.

CNN, FOX news, the internet is full of data. I think it's up to 900 dead Lebanese and 51 Israelis as of tonight....that's not counting the dead Palestinians. It seems the stated ratio of 1 to 10 is being overstretched. This whole conflict is useless. The end result is both parties will negotiate as they would have without the conflict, destruction and deaths. By the way Westerner, I haven't been skiing out west for some time....plan to go next winter....if global warming will allow snow.

First, We did just fine without American weapon in 1948 against 7 Arab Armies Second, Our technological and brain advantage is not so dependent on the U.S as you might think. We managed to develop nuclear power without your help many years ago. We managed to build a superb prototype of a fighting plane that was not manufactured due to American pressure. They knew we could build a good one and sell it to other countries. BTW, U.S should also worry if they stop military relations with Israel, because we are now banned to sell some of our proprietary weapons to countries like China. Bottom line – Better join the good and smart or stay frustrated for the rest of your life.

which seems to be the main role of the IAF anyway How much stealth do you need to bomb beirut?

getting weapons from any country it's ok, because it's "their right to be in the front" but ISRAEL, shoukd put down it weapons and let them destroy it. yeah yeah, we will get you too... TAHARAN AND DAMESCUS look up to the skies, we are coming to get you. there'll be no quiet to anyone who calls to destroy ISRAEL.

ISRAEL is doing the job for lebanon. it's knows that they can't do it by themselves, so that's the reason for that act. ISRAEL didn't targeted lebanon as the enemy, it targeted hzb, hte reason for so wide bombing in lebanon is because of the wide spread of the hzb. and btw, even if they had weapons, ISRAL were acted exactly like that. and for iran, wait and see...

I don't claim to work for Jane's, but what other purpose does a BOMBER serve if it has no air-to-ground capability? To bomb other airplanes? Either US has a major design flaw on their hands, or you need to brush up on your facts.

Murdering civilians from ultra high tech cybercraft jets with naplm,cluster bombs and white phosphoros...is not the way of a 'warrior'..it is the way of gutless war criminals.

Mark - you are sitting at home in Houston, watching Texans football or Asros baseball, or maybe visiting a local church on a Sunday afternoon. Then suddently you are under a missle attack from PRI, a popular party in Mexico. When you tell the Mexican army across the border to stop the PRI terrorists who hate your American guts, the Army tells you they can't - sorry. PRI is raining down its missles on YOUR HOME from civilian areas, where locals, brainwashed by PRI operatives, provide food, shelter to PRI terrorists. Most of the locals send their sons to serve in PRI forces. By the way, PRI terrorists follow the orders of Russian oil barons who want America destroyed, and don't care how many local Mexicans across the border from you, PRI supporters or not, get killed if you attempt to stop the rocket attacks. What would you do? Would you send our American Army to stop PRI terrorists or would you let it slide? Keep in mind that if you don't respond to them now, that would only embolden the terrorists to attack you more, because you are the "weak" one in the eyes now - even though your never attacked them first and want to live in peace. WHAT WOULD YOU DO, MARK?

The US Farmers' Lobby has a far higher budget and influence than the Jewish lobby in the USA. Yet we never hear about their "sickening subversion". The farmers lobby in Europe has derailed the Doha trade talks. As a result hundreds of millions of poor peasants will be denied access to world markets. That is the truly sickening subversion. However, David Duke and other "enlightened" observers never raise this issue, and Mark from H does not pick up on it. The arabs and moslems make up a far greater percentage of population than jews in all countries except USA and Israel. In all those countries they wield political power far more disproportionate than the jews in the USA. Yet no one complains about the "sickening subversion" there. In fact, there are calls from the politicians for the US to stop "bowing" to the "jewish pressure" and stand with the rest of the "International community" in "putting pressure on Israel". All this while making an exclusive claim of impartiality. And this brings me to Alon from Budapest (#47). I am also a jew and I say that Mark from Houston IS making an anti-semitic statement. He SELECTIVELY picks the jewish lobby for ostracism, therefore denying jews access to the political power enjoyed by everyone else. I think that you might have been confused by Mark's last statement, which we ALL agree with: killing civillians IS wrong. (hey Mark, I guess, to borrow your own rather sexist analogy, we ALL have testicles, huh?!) And final point to Mark: HOW MANY MESSAGES HAVE YOU POSTED ON THE PRO-HIZBULLAH BOARDS? ABOUT THE MOSLEM LOBBY AND KILLING OF CIVILIANS? Maybe you need to check to see if there is something lacking there in, er, testicle department.

David, you are confused by Marc's rhetoric. Unfortuantely, it is the same mistake many others make. He may not be anti-semitic, and stating that it is wrong to kill civilians is CERTAINLY not anti-semitic. To harp exclusively on the "sickening subversion" of the US Jewish lobby, IS anti-semitic, because IT SELECTIVELY DENIES JEWS ACCESS TO POLITICAL POWER ENJOYED BY ALL! While he himself may not be an anti-semite, here Marc from H is in perfect resonance with every anti-semite in the world.

for 2, IAF is not allways alone, iaf is a air force maybe the best in the world, not in the planes, but in the systems of the planes, in the quality of the pilots, and maybe against the terror the planes alone, like everynormal air force, cuz terrorists doesn't have aircraft, u agree?. but don't forget the wars in the past, when the iaf had a amaizing result, remind u, in the 1948 war in dogfight israeli won 18-0, in six days-war the iaf lost 15 planes in the dogfights, and the enemy lost 451 ! in the 1969 weakening war 16 egypt lost 11 and russa(yes russa) lost 5 pilots ! she sent 5 planes and pilots to egypt for help and lost them, in the yomkipur war in dogfights israeli lost none planes and the enemy lost 370 planes ! israeli lost 102 but not in dogfight, she lost them in antiplanes missles, in the first lebanon war syria lost 100 planes, and israeli didn't lost even 1 ! and don't say that iaf was allways alone, cuz in all his wars he was against2-3-4-5 armys in the same time. on every 1 israeli planes, 30 enemy planes lost.

Guys, I have no problem with Israeli Offensive Forces striking off into Lebanon to kill a few Islamic warriors who are shooting rockets into Lebanon. This is Israel's right and obligation to its citizens. Its a matter of tactics - YOU DON"T bomb apartment buildings and civilian structures with 500 pound bombs from F16's UNLESS you have given the civilians adequate warning and means to evacuate the area. As for the Israeli lobby in the United States, they have every right to plead their case with any politician who will listen. However, they also have the largest known foreign spy ring in the United States and have penetrated numerous agencies, departments and our military. Go ask your US Congressman what will happen if he or she opposes the Israeli lobby - they will be attacked by the Jewish controlled media, numerous Jewish groups and quickly be branded a "anti-semite". I wonder what would happen if the people of the United States decided, for ONLY ONE YEAR, to divert the US taxpayers money that was going to Israel, to a another country such as Lebanon. The Jewish lobby would come unglued and go beserk in this country.

Saul, Provide me a link to a pro-Hezbollah website and I will gladly post that they should immediately cease their attacks on Israeli civilians. I'm not anti-semitic, I am simply against using military firepower against civilian populations. Especially, military hardware that I paid for as a US taxpayer. Military against Military - go for it. Let the best man win.

David, with all due respect, you completely miss the point. Mark's comments again support the notion of "moral equivalence " between Israel's ongoing battle with a terrorist orgaization that seeks it's destruction and what militarily Israel needs to do to prevent Hezbullah from rearming itself by Iran via Syria. The difference between the two is that Israel is disgusted at the idea of killing any innocent civilians as part of it's effort to destroy Hizbullah, while Hizbullah specifically targets civilian centers in IsraeI and use the Lebonese as shields to enrage the arabs communities around the world when they are killed and injured. Your views are a classical example of when all is said and done, only Israel can make those decisions it needs to prevent its anilation.

The civilians of Lebanon are aiding terrorists. Hizbollah is a terrorist group. Robert Tilden didn't say so, the US state department says so, 11% of Lebanese voted for them, that is Aiding terrorism, the other Lebanese parties co-oporate with them in the government, that is aiding terrorism. The Russians blinked six months ago when they invited Hamas to Moscow and the world was quite about it. Now France proclaims Iran is a stabalizing force in the Middle East. Someone should kick France in the nuts for being stupid and both France and Russia should be called what they are: Aider of Islamic terror. Here is what should be done to France and Russia, their banks should be kicked out of NY for aiding terror. Watch them change their tune fast

Michael, For the sake of civilians in Lebanon it appears that somebody needs to stop re-arming the Israeli's. I wonder who is re-arming the Israeli's - can you guess? The Israeli's have use the capture of a single soldier as an excuse to unleash all of this destruction against Gaza and Lebanon? I really don't think that the Israeli political and military leaders desire peace, they want blood. michael - would you please do an internet search and tell me the civilian death count in Lebanon and Israel. Post the results on this website and tell me if you see an imbalance in the data?

Mark, you must be a transplant from the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia. Real Texans are defenders of Liberty and Justice. Texans died at the Alamo for freedom knowing all the while that their stand was pure suicide. At least Santa Ana was a chivalrous gentleman and spared the women and children. Hezbollah and Hamas target Israeli children with their own bomb-laden children. If you lie with dogs you’re going to get fleas. The Lebanese know that they run the risk of being bombed if they house their foreign occupiers. (Hezbollah) You mentioned that you are a Christian. Question: How can you love your savior and hate his race? (Here on earth) Sure, there are KKK members that claim to be Christians, but I have always wondered how they justified their hatred of the Jews when God chose to send his son into our world as a Jew. Pick your bible up and read it my friend. Try Isaiah 17:1-3 out for size. As a Christian you should know how its all going to end, the Jews kick butt and take names. You can stick your head in the sand, drink your cosmopolitans, and drive your Hybrid around but it is what it is.

But is this immigrant jew enough to make it's aaliyah?

Alan, Your question - How can you love your savior and hate this race? Hate what race? If you read my post you will clearly see that I don't give a damn what military force you are working for, if you kill INNOCENT civilians, you are committing MURDER. I don't like murder. Jesus, my Savior and Lord, doesn't like murder. And the Israeli's can hide behind their flag and the Old Testament. Whats wrong is wrong, whether you be a Jew, Christian or Muslim. Hezbollah is wrong, the IDF is wrong and people with peace in their hearts need to stand up and tell these jerks to stop and stop it now. Our President, who is currently sucking the tit of the Jewish lobby, needs to pick up the phone and tell the US Navy to get off the coast of Lebanon and knock everything out of the sky within 500 miles. If it flies, it dies. Alan, the only race that G_d recognizes is the human race. Israel will be used for G_d's purposes in the future. What is happening today is simply not G_d's handiwork. Why don't you check out the Gospel of John.

1. It is Israeli DEFENSE Forces; 2."Islamic warriors shooting rockets into Lebanon"? No, that was the last Lebanese war. I assume that you mean "shooting rockets into Israel" 3. IDF DOES repeatedly warn civilians. It drops leaflets, breaks in on local radio broadcasts, and even makes phone calls to warn of upcoming strikes. I am not sure what other means of warning can be considered as adequate, but if you have one, I am sure the IDF would love to hear it; 4. What do you do if the proud, peace-loving Islamic warriors that you speak of are shooting rockets from civilian areas, use civilian buildings to hide themselves and their weapons, hold civilians hostage or have civilians cooperate willingly? In light of having warned the civilians to leave? 5. American Jewish Congress operates "the largest known foreign spy ring in the US"? This is news to me, but if you are right, you have a Pulitzer prize coming! 6.1 What would happen if US would divert farm subsidies to E. Caribbean farmers? Give Egyptian subsidies to Israel? A lot of stink from affected constituency. 6.2 US obliges Israel to use its aid to purchase weapons, technology and other products from US contractors, often at greatly inflated prices. If US would stop its aid to Israel, you would also have the lobbyists for US defense firms raise their formidable voice in opposition; 7. When you mention Jewish-controlled media, what exactly do you mean? Do you mean those media outlets which are owned by Jews, or which employ Jews? Or do you mean that Jews own all media in the US? Or do you mean that Jews use their superpowers to control the content of the US media? 8. If you want to find Hizbullah related, or generally anti-semetic sites, just plug into Google the following: "Israeli Offensive Forces", "Islamic Warriors", "Israeli Atrocities", "Jewish Lobby". Somehow, I have a feeling that you have already been there.

Saul, 1. When a military force is using F16's to drop bombs on another country, without declaring war, it ceases to be a "DEFENSE" Force and is now an OFFENSIVE Force. 2. You are correct - I was referring to the Islamic fighters (Hezbollah) shooting missiles into Israel, not Lebanon. Hezbollah is wrong in doing this and needs to cease and desist immediately. 3. I suppose the deliberate shelling of the UN Compound by Israeli artillery was a type of warning. 4. Guerrila-style tactics are common to forces such as Hezbollah. If the Israeli military can't handle this type of fighter, that doesn't give them the right to kill INNOCENT civilians. Period. The Israeli's are taking the easy path - kill everything and tell the civilized world to stick it. 5. Not the American Jewish Congress. The State of Israel operates the largest foreign spy ring in the United States, followed closely by the Peoples Republic of China. This is common knowledge in the intelligence business. Do a google search and find out who these people are - Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Elliott Abrams - and examine how they are involved in the "national security" of the USA. A day will come when they are exposed as Israeli collaborators who do not have the best interests of the United States at heart. 6, I would rather see the financial and military aid that currently goes to Israel be diverted to another nation that really needs assistance. 7. With very little research you can easily find the signifcant power yielded by Jews (as owners and managers) in the USA media. They use this power to influence public opinion in the United States on behalf of Israel. Always remember - "Israel can do no wrong". 8. Thanks for the Google search words. By the way, I haven't been to those sites.

Mark, in times of war and conflict “Innocent” is a tough call. Name one person who does not have blood on his hands? A German who volunteered in some sort of Nazi community group was just as “guilty” as someone firing a weapon. Back in WWII the USA bombed the snot out of Bremen and Dresden, Germany. Thousands of innocent civilians were killed, so where was the outcry? (Other than maybe the NY Times) There was none as these things do happen regardless of how careful you are. In a twisted sort of way the Nazis “defended” from established industrial and military areas. Apparently they cared enough for their own people enough not to risk subjecting them to death. (Of course they murdered everyone who was not like them) Hezbollah is not even man enough to fight from established areas and norms. Not only do they not care for Israeli life, they don’t care for Arab life! When a power defends itself it is due to an unprovoked attack and is done to preserve the lives of its citizens/people. This means that its defense positioning closely reflects that of the Hippocratic Oath; if you cannot do good, then do no harm. Purposely placing your weapons in a residential area is subjecting your people to death. A power that is truly defending itself does not do this. You also have to wonder what is going through the minds of those civilians who do not vacate when they see the big guns come in. My guess is that they are willingly and eagerly housing the terrorists and weapons of Hezbollah. They believe and support Hezbollah and that makes them not so innocent.

Ann, Israel is Americas line of defense? WTF are you smoking? go back to your RED NECK BAR and STFU. You dont know what your talking about. please explian to me how Israel is AMERICAS LINE OF DEFENSE?? PLEASEEE TELL ME WHEN ITS 6000 MILES AWAY? YOU MORON. Israel is Americas vampire and when it sucks out the rest of OUR TAX MONEY they will turn on you just like they turned on their own prophet.

Were you planning to live there and become a welfare recipient? Or having been unsuccessful at manipulating people on these boards so far, perhaps you're trying another tactic.

I am sick and tired of you complaining about how Jews control the media and the government. First off that you are an anti-semite is clear and secondly let me let you in on some facts about Jews in America, we are as patriotic as any other ethnicity group in the States which as you know is a melting pot of different ethnic groups. If you look it up a guy named Soloman was the biggest donor of money to Washington's army during the Revolutionary War and that money was taken out of his own pockets and after the war he got very little of it back. Historians say that without his help the US would have lost that war from the beginning. Their were also many Jewish soldiers and officers in the Revolution as well as other wars. My grandfather was a Lt. in World War II and my Uncle served in Vietnam. So don't give me crap about the Jews being in a big spy ring. Just because Jews are succesf ul in the states doesn't make them spies. So go get an education!!!!! i

Perhaps, with people like you around, USA's first line of defense needs to be right here. Which university did you study jew hatred 101?

1. Are you talking officially or figuratively here? Officially, IDF stands for Israeli Defense Force. Figuratively speaking, you are being glib and disengeniuos. The war has not been declared only because Hizbullah is not a state. It is, nevertheless, quite clear that it was Hizbullah that attacked Israel. 2. I believe the term you used was a rather pompous "Islamic Warriors"; 3. Your response was purely demagogic. I stand by my statement: repeated warning by means of dropping leaflets, radio and tv broadcasts, and personal phone calls is more than adequate, it is unprecedented in history of warfare; 4. If the Israelis took what you call the "easy path", there would be 100,000's dead and wounded and the entire country in complete ruins. The rockets would have stopped three weeks ago. Of course, only someone with a moral perspective of a mole will consider indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas to be the EASY path. 5. Thank you for correcting yourself. 6. You are free to take up that issue with your congressman, and/or by making donations to a Political Action Committee of your choice. 7. Have you done that little research? Or have you read results of other little researches? David Duke's, maybe? Louis Farrakhan's? What exactly IS significant power? What about the significant power of Italians in the movie business? Significant power of Afro-Americans in the entertainment business? Hey, India makes by far the biggest number of movies, what about their control of the media? Most of the ads ran on CNN International are from Middle East companies. 8. Mark from Houston, you ARE a classic anti-semite, through and through, of the most garden variety. Your views are nothing but clichés rehashed from neo-nazi, KKK, Nation of Islam, etc. sources. Your answers lack any intellectual rigor or constructive imagination, and you have no ability or goodwill to approach critically any of your prejudices. Well, at least you must have the comfort of a herd that shares your mentality. I suggest you spend a little time looking at www.memritv.org. Of course you probably will not, since it is run by Jews, and you know all about that Jew-controlled media.

It doesn't surprise me that you accuse me of being an anti-semite. I have never been associated with the neo-Nazi's, KKK or Nation of Islam. I am an American who has had enough of a miltarized nation state that finds it acceptable practice to bomb and shell civilians. My opposition to these tactics does not make me a anti-semite. Your false accusation shows the emptiness of your argument. It doesn't take intelletual rigor, nor constructive imagination to observe undeniable fact - Israel, the possessor of dominant military firepower has stepped over the line and is killing INNOCENT men, women and children without justifiable cause. Saul, defending these military tactics is unexcuseable and puts blood on your hands too.