Opinion  Others
Despite it all, we won
Guy Benyovits
Published: 13.08.06, 12:57
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1. Nope
Chris ,   LA   (08.13.06)
I'm sorry, but just because a country stays united after a war doesn't mean you won anything. Huzb Allah is still armed and alive, probably will grow stronger politically and militarily in the future. The big winners are Iran and the Lebanese government. Iran because it's a propaganda win for them and they didn't get damaged. The Lebanese government because the army is going to the south.
2. Sorry, YOU LOST
Alexander ,   austin   (08.13.06)
I am sorry, but I dont buy your analysis. The IDF lost big time. Israel is less secure today than it has ever been, even with the largest, most armed, and equipped in the region. However, this war demonstrated clearly that despite all this the Israeli army is defeatable without air or sea power. The IDF image is tarnished and as a result Israelis are less secure. Perhaps Israel can learn how to achieve its goals by listening to wise voices from within. It is about time to talk peace, mean peace with people in your neighborhood. Doves of prey http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3290006,00.html
3. Victory? I hope you're kidding...
4. Did Hizballah win?
Ze'ev ,   Haifa   (08.13.06)
1. Is not being able to protect your (Shia) "civillians" is a victory? 1000 of them are dead. 2. Is loosing more than 500 fighters (out of total 8000) a victory? 3. Is causing destruction of Lebanese infrastructure a victory? I don't think so, and despite the attempt to show Hizballah as a defending side in fact they were the attackers. What did their attack achieve?
5. Victory is when the bad guys die and the good guys live
6. Delusional
Samuel ,   New York   (08.13.06)
The fact that this fool is YNet's chief news editor is even more disturbing than his delusional article. Israel clearly did not 'win' this round of the century-old war between the Arabs and the Jews, and this time the reverse is so great there must be steps taken immediately to counter the situation--up to and including the resignation of Olmert, setting up truly objective committees of inquiry, and learning and implementing urgent changes in how Israel conducts its foreign and domestic affairs. (I realize that I too am delusional--for even suggesting such things, as the chances of any occurring under the backwards Kadima is nil.) Israel is in serious danger under the leadership of such clowns, as most Israelis realize, notwithstanding the media's propaganda.
7. Told the truth???
jix ,   beirut   (08.13.06)
You can write as you want and try to come up with a conclusion about Israel winning the war Mr Benyovits, but the truth remains, Israel has lost this war in the most humiliating way. Israel is not a country with an army it's an army with a country, and seeing the IDF defeated and with this amount of casualties against a militia of few thousands draws a big question mark about the Existance of this artificial state. you know that in 50 years the jews are going to be a minority in the "state of Israel", So I guess time and demography will take care of this "problem" cheers
8. Despit All, We won the war
Bassam ,   Doha   (08.13.06)
So without the hair dresser the war would have been lost. Just admit reality: YOU'VE LOST THE WAR
9. yes,but....( # 1)
rocco ,   uae   (08.13.06)
on floor,hezbollah destroy the soldiers and no one stopped them in beating North of israel. 1701 resolution:hezbolla will have his hostage+sheibaa farms+not allowed for israel to come to lebanon anytime she wants+good also for lebanese goverment,so who is Guy Benyovits?!!!loser.
10. Really?
dave ,   Dallas   (08.13.06)
If Israel was victorious in this recent war, then I really wouldn't wanna see what a defeat would look like..
11. Israel won the fighting but lost the diplomacy.
Jane ,   UK   (08.13.06)
Israel won the military conflict on all counts and that is indisputable, despite the cries of those who would say otherwise. Those who have served in the military will be aware of this, whether Jew or Gentile. Hezbollah had six years to prepare for this conflict. While the international community was negligent in overseeing the UN resolution pertaining to the disarming of Hezbollah, Israel should have seen the potential for the potential unravelling of this conflict. That issue needs to be addressed in the future. The fighting was of the 'gutter' type, slow and tedious, due to the fact that Hezbollah chose to fight from among it's civilian population and their towns and villages. An open conflict would have been over in a couple of days. Warfare of this nature can continue for years. Take a look at Iraq and Afghanistan for confirmation. Where Israel must learn from it's mistakes is believing that ceding any territory to the Arab world will result in any reciprocation. Concessions are seen as a sign of weakness and all territory ceded by Israel in good faith, in Gaza and the Lebanon, has been used as a platform from which to launch further terrorism and missiles into the Jewish state. Israel needs to see that the world is also being held ransom by the Islamic/Arab block and it's petrodollars. Such has given rise to the world turning upon Israel for a conflict which it did not start and did not want. The diplomatic and political battle was never there to be won by Israel. This will always be the case. The Israeli people, in my humble opinion, also needs to view this conflict in the context of what it's present leaders have delivered...or failed to. The IDF has been badly let down by it's political leaders and denied the military any opportunity to finish the job which the international community could not be bothered to even start. I feel that Israel will be stronger as a result of this conflict. Any doubts within the mind of it's population as to the intent of it's enemies, so called "friends" and how the world perceives the region, will hopefully be dismissed once and for all. Those "with eyes to see" will see through the Arab propaganda and hyperbole & face the coming years emboldened by such an open display of hatred and betrayal, by the Arabs & the international community, which will hopefully emblazen a reality upon the hearts of those who have previously bought into the "lie" that Israel's neighbours really want "peace". Nasrallah declared earlier today that, in his eyes, the end of the "Zionist entity" is near. It is no accident that Lebanese PM Saniora also described Israel as such in his speech to the Arab League, and then proceeded to even discuss the UN resolution with Hezbollah itself. Wake up Israel, wake up world before this conflict repeats itself.
12. All Views are Valid
S Judah ,   london   (08.13.06)
There are many ways to look at this. Hezbollah can certainly claim a victory by staying on for so long and firing rockets to the end. Lebanon certainly lost and all civilians lost especially the Lebenese. The sting here is that Hezbollah fought as civilians and are part of the Lebenon all be it their masters appear to be Iran and Syrian. Israel's leaders did not do well, they mouthed as much as Nasrallha. You expect that of the later but hope for more sense from the former. They also seemed to have messed up with goals for the IDF. My views though are like this. Hezbollah's gains are short term, They have only brought disaster to Lebanon and only fools would support them deep down. The great gain for Israel is exacly per this article. Only two I will mention, At least 50% of IDF casulties could have been avoided by deploying effective tank protection systems. They will developed and deployed. Similarly just watch for the development of an anti rocket defence system. It will happen. These two alone will have enorrmous positive implcations for Israel.
13. Why do these Arab folks keep reading an Israeli newspaper?
Flavio ,   Sao Paulo, Brazil   (08.13.06)
The discussion about whow won and who lost this war will be kept for a long time, but one thing is very meaningful when it comes to truth: there is a lot of Arabs and Anti-Israelites reading regularly Ynet posts, but I bet there is not a single Jew or Israeli checking posts at an Araba newspaper site - and that, my friends, say a lot about who won and who lost!
14. lonely war
ahmed   (08.13.06)
Israel is alone in this war, The whole world knows about the Palestinian plight. You guys better talk about peace before a rival military power engulfs you. I just wonder what Israelis would loose if they give up the occupied lands and free the Palestinians. You have enslaved them for almost fifty years. As one Israeli writer put it very clear-cut, Israelis became “doves of prey”. So how come you don’t understand what it feel like being enslaved.
15. You must be kidding ..
Jeff ,   Australia   (08.13.06)
You lost on every front. Politcally Israel is more isolated than ever. Even the American are now stopping the arms flow to Israel. Militarily: Few hundred Hisbulla soldiers battling 30,000+ IDF soldiers. Still the litani river seems awfully far.
16. I wish I could agree with you...
Malkah ,   Israel   (08.13.06)
But if you're going to go with honesty as a measure of winning, you're just not being honest. Israel is losing this war, because her government is willing to enter into agreements with an enemy which is by no means beaten or even deterred. It is terrifying to witness the pathetic and desperate groveling of Israel in front of the international community, neglecting the interests of its own citizens. I think we're far from winning.
17. mmmmmm.. I don't think so
Anyone ,   Toronto, Canada   (08.13.06)
try another one
18. sorry sir
charbel ,   dubai   (08.13.06)
Mr. Benyovitz i guess u're totally disconnected from reality like Israeli PM Olmert.sorry man.
19. I would love to agree, but SORRY I CANNOT!
Ari ,   Jerusalem   (08.13.06)
SERGE ,   BEIRUT LEBANON   (08.13.06)
21. casualties does NOT mean defeat
eugene ,   israel   (08.13.06)
22. That sounds familiar
A.C.   (08.13.06)
This article reminds me of what Saddam Husein newspapers were publishing after the first Gulf War 1990. We won because we still united and Saddam still in power.
23. A Spin Worthy of George Bush
Kenstee   (08.13.06)
Sorry to say but this is as believable as George Ws spin about my country's "victory" in Iraq. Sometimes the best thing is to face reality and not be in denial. As a major booster for Israel iits is hard to say '"we" lost - but that is the reality. It was a major missed opportunity by an inexperienced PM and Defense Minister.
24. You won? what a joke
jix ,   beirut   (08.13.06)
If this is the way you win a war, i would like to see how you lose one Cheers
25. To 7, 8,y 9 exactly how idiots read matters superfically
S Judah ,   london   (08.13.06)
In every single encounter with IDF troops Hezbollah lost, and lost big. Ever day in the South 20 to 50 terrorists were killed, to date at least 550. Not reported by your media of Course. Most of the IDF casulties were through anti tank rockets. The IDF did not deploy protection available for this, a bad miistake. But they will. Look at the mess in Lebanon and the North of Israel. There is no comparasin. In the North we will be back to normal in a few months. And by the way the overall casulties in Israel were less then the sucide bombers caused in a similar period of time before we worked out how to strangle them as well. We do learn my friends and better then anyone else. The supprise of the rockets has now gone as well. Further more the 30 thosand troops are being deployed in the South of Lebanon not in Israel. Think of that as well. Think, don't be mislead by bombastic statements from fools.
26. Yup, they've won.
Lamos ,   Malaysia   (08.13.06)
They've won because they did not resort to illegal tactics e.g the use of human shields. They've won because they were fighting for peace for their homeland, and that has been archieved if the resolution is abided - if not, the IDF would simply rolled up to where they have stopped and continue pushing upwards, and as if that's a hard thing to repeat. They have cast a strong international attention to the worm called "Hezbollah", who had been hidden for the last 6 years, and now hid no more because its stronghold in the South has been obliterated by the Israelis, its arsenal reduced to pitiful Katyushas which, while still being deadly, can only hit pitiful amount of Israel. Despite horrible tragedies - the international media coverage on the conflict itself is a major tragedy, and the numerous collateral damage that happened when Hezbollah used civillians as human shields, despite the many destruction that happened across both sides, they've won. It may not be a resounding victory; Hezbollah may not have been wiped out or completely disarmed - but Hezbollah has already have much to lose. Their stronghold of Bint Jbeil is now gone - to be replaced by International peacekeepers who hopefully would be keeping tabs on them. Their caches of weapons uncovered and systematically destroyed, hundreds of their fighters shot dead and the wounded sucking on the International Red Cross for help - not Iran or Syria. Their dirty tactics are now exposed. Their "infrastructures"... only a few of them are not damaged or destroyed. And for Iran and Syria to rearm it would be difficult for the next 3 months. As for their propaganda, it failed miserably - AP is taking the heat from various Western blogs, and Reuters itself are now trying to keep its ordeal from Reutersgate silent. Even Qana - accused to be caused by Israel actions - are now fading into the background of obscurity, like the Beach shore shelling a few months ago. There will always be gullible people around - people who would love to paint nothing but negative light on Israel - but does that really matter anymore? Israel won. Period. The only thing left to do, is for the Lebanese people to reject this tumour Hezbollah once and for all; and then let the two countries shake hand and recouncil, and move on together. It is possible - Jordan and Egypt have done so in the past- and if there's a will, there's a way.
27. Israel did not win, neither did Hizbollah
Aaron ,   OZ   (08.13.06)
Israel did not win, and now faces renewed threats from across the Arab world, including Egypt. However, Hizbollah did not win, simply because they expected, indeed relied, upon world opinion stopping the fighting within a week. World opinion (or the bit that matters) did not materialise, obviously the result of 911, etc. This means that when the next war starts, Israel will be ready to act decisively, to use its airpower & artillery to destroy fortifications, wherever they may be, and whomever may be hit in doing so, in order to minimise casualties among its own infantry forces, which, as this war has shown, are still vital to success. A loss, which one can survive, albeit with a reduced feeling of safety, is sometimes not always a bad thing, it is certainly the best way to learn some lessons which this war has taught the IDF, namely that infantry are necessary, experience is vital and that training is next to g-dliness. Israel goes forward, bloody, but not hurt, bowed, but not beaten, after being provoked into fighting the unbeatable enemy, by their rules, in their playground, yet escaping from the engagement having altered the rules (if the world does not care, as shown by the fact that there were no 100,000+ demonstrations in a month of fighting anywhere in the western world, why should Israel?), and having tested its very latest equipment against the latest most advanced weaponry available in the Russian arsenal, most of which succesfully withstood the testing, and that that didn't will no doubt be improved, and finally having had the opportunity to test out a variety of operational models, some succesfully and some not so succesful. Israel proceeds into this century with greater knowledge of the dangers that await, and the means by which they may be defeated or thwarted. This knowledge is invaluable, and will save many lives in the future conflicts, and which if it had to be learned in a much larger conflict would have cost many more lives. In conclusion, losing a round, is not always a major defeat, sometimes losing a round enables a fighter to reevaluate their strategies, tactics, weapons and approaches, what worked and what didn't. Believe me, many armies will be vitally interested in this information, which can only be brought at such a high price, and which, being valuable, should not be handed out without consideration of its cost. If knowledge is power, and I sincerely hope that it is, then Israel has emerged from this fight having learned much, which means that the power of the IDF is undiminished, in fact it is increased by this experience. What is required now is honesty, a serious long hard look at what happened, why it happened, how bad things could have been avoided and how things could have worked better. It is true, what doesn't kill you, does make you stronger.
28. to #1 - no, we won
denon   (08.13.06)
Eh-h, no, sorry , I think we will stick with our "we won" story. Lebanese govt never wanted to go south (I should say go down :)) but they will have to now. HB wanted to stay (read mr. Nassralah speeches) but they will have to leave. UN resolution almost completely meets Isarel's demands of the begining of the war. Not the best of our battles, but we won.
29. Israel can still win if...
Ken ,   Toronto, Canada   (08.13.06)
Israel keeps the Shaba farms and restores the Jewish communities of Gush Katif in recognition of the lessons of what happens when you give away land to Nasralla and his fellow Islamo-facsists. Any other course of action will truthfully be seen as defeat.
30. LOOOL that's Hilarious !
Bin ,   France   (08.13.06)
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