Again, as I said in an earlier post, I used the phrase "you say ..." NOT to mean you actually said it, but as a stylistic tool to indicate "if it is said ...]." Since I have already agreed that you did not say this, and in effect accepted your anger and tried to explain, in essence, that I should have used a differerent way to expres my thoughts, why are you still harping on it? you are right, my language was imprecise and it is a "sensitive" topic, and I appreciate your understanding of that fact. ARE YOU ABLE TO ACCEPT THIS STATEMENT AND MOVE BEYOND? OR ARE YOU SO ATTACHED TO YOUR HURT THAT YOU NEED MORE SOOTHING? Having said that, does this negate everything I said about the principle of anonymity on this service? IN OTHER WORDS, ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO BE ANONYMOUS ONLY UNTIL YOU WRITE SOMETHING THAT SOMEONE TAKES OFFENSE AT? !!? That seems to defeat the entire purpose of being able to freely express opinion, does it not? Cheers.

Whilst patriotic Jews are regarded as enemies of the state. Israel's leaders continue to demonstrate their sympathies are not with Jewish victims. Their sympathies are with Islamic terrorist killers. Israel gave the use of an Israeli prison to promote jihad against Israel's Jewish innocents. For some unknown and terrible reason, Israel's leaders continue to give every indication that they want Israel's barbaric enemies to win. www.jerusalempost.com May. 18, 2006 14:19 | Updated May. 20, 2006 16:20 Another Tack: Lifers here and there By SARAH HONIG ...Israeli prisons are indeed unique. Not only do the most dangerous terrorists therein get hold of phones, but recently Hamas overtly conducted a mass rally in a southern Israeli maximum-security penitentiary, where scores of convicts congregated in the courtyard, which they festooned with Hamas Islamic-green banners and Palestinian flags. A stage and speakers' rostrum were erected. The backdrop decor was a giant collage, displaying the Hamas emblem, portraits of Hamas leaders, slogans calling for Jihad against Israel and pictures of RPGs underscored by the motto "we'll continue." White plastic chairs were neatly arranged for the "audience," who cheered the invective hurled at the Zionist state and freely photographed the occasion - all under the disinterested eyes of passive Israeli wardens. The snapshots are available for viewing on the Web. Terrorist lifers in Israel don't expect to end their existence in captivity...

If God so loves the Jews then he was very quiet about it between the years 1939 and 1945. You call me evil. However, I find the idea that any race is "chosen" by God positively wicked. But then again I lack your certitude that God exists, and if he/she does exist then there's considerable evidence that he/she is the biggest fascist of them all.

if god does not exist [and let me say I really don't know how i actually feel about that issue] what ultimate standards guide our behavior? i.e., why should one be 'good as opposed to 'bad', if there is no 'ultimate' lawgiver, judge or arbiter? also, assuming for the moment god does not exist, how do you - we - explain the existence of the universe, i.e, the positive existence of a 'real' world of matter - i.e, what was the 'first cause' [if any?]. or is the universe something that is just 'there' according to the laws of nature? let's hear from you.

I said the idea is evil. I don't believe it originated with yourself. It is evil because it denies God's power to save his people, as He did in WW2. They are still here and thriving aren't they.? Thriving even after the Nazi destroyer is dead. They are a nation...by Gods choosing...not the United Nations...not the Commonwealth....not the United States....but by Gods hand. You can't deny the evidence in front of your eyes. God is just, He wouldn't keep the Jews dispersed forever. And He will not turn His eyes away from Israel in blessing or in discipline, ever. God says he chose them for many reasons. The chief reason being to make a way for Messiah Jesus to save our sorry selfs. Thats what I believe. Isn't this the real problem. Its not the Jews, the State of Israel, or even Iran. It's us as people. So we find ourselves continually destroying and then defending ourselves from each other. Its a sick circle. That's the price we pay for not obeying Gods Law...the Ten Commandments, another of the reasons God chose the Jews...LAW. Gods basic Law to all people. To deny Gods power and hand in Israels preservation and creation is par with lunacy. Good Day my Irish friend. James

You ask: why should one be 'good as opposed to 'bad', if there is no 'ultimate' lawgiver, judge or arbiter? It depends on your definition of good and bad. Why does homo sapiens uniquely among the species require such definitions? My bitch had five puppies last Friday. Her care for them exceeds that of any human mother. Such behaviour in a human would be given a moral dimension and defined as "good". With my poor bitch, however, it is not labeled either good or bad, simply attributed to nature or instinct. I think far more human behaviour stems from instinct than we are often prepared to accept. And instinct is always morally neutral.

Provide me with a single shred of evidence that this hypothetical deity of yours is just? Where is the justice in what happened to 6 million Jews during the holocaust? And, contrary to your belief, the Nazis are still very much alive and, dare I say it, dangerous.

thanks. interesting. i guess the next question [my next question anyway, for what it's worth] is - are there certain 'instincts' [as you put it, answering my question as to how we should behave] that we should promote, adopt, encourage, and others we should not? i ask this because in some of your posts you have referred to 'justice' [post 38] so i wonder if there is a value system somewhere out there, or at least 'values' you find positive and others negative. also, any answer to the 'where did we come from' question? cheers.

John, first I apologize for the delay in responding to your question. Why would God permit the Jews to suffer the things that have happened to them at the hands of other men not only from 1939-45, but at any time in history? And taking it further. especially if they are a special select people in His eyes? I wont presume to think I know the answer which will satisfy you. I'm not a scholar of history nor an apologist. But this is what I understand. God is Holy. He has established laws or standards which He as the one true living God demands. It has to do with his nature, who He is. He told the Jews early in their history that if they will seek Him in their daily individual lives and also collectively as a family/nation that he would bless them. Which they have successfully done at times in their history resulting in many great blessings. But God also told them that if they rebel from what He says, seeking to be like other nations and people who practice sinful behavor then he would correct them in much the same way we would correct one of our children for willful acts of disobedience. He administers correction out of justice deserved for violating His law. And He also corrects because he loves us. I love my children. Depending on the nature and severity of the disobedience, the consequence to my child, based on my law, may be mild or severe. My goal is to teach them to obey me for any number of reasons which they fully understand because I've told them so. I've warned them of the consequences for disobedience. It's for me. I'm their father. It's my authority. So also is it with God. He warned them that their sinful rebellion would cause Him to drive them out of the land He gave them by promise to Abraham. He warned that they would find themselves enslaved, persecuted, hated and killed. But He also said He would not totally abandon them and would bring them back to the promised land at the end of the ages. God never abondoned them for all the years since Babylon destroyed their nation. Bad things happened to them along the way. The evil done to them by the Nazis was only one of the very terrible ordeals they went through during this time, God permitted the evil to happen, but did not let it destroy them as a unique people.. He warned them early on of the consequences for their sin. So we see in them how justice is, and also how love and mercy is. They are an example for all the rest of us people in the world who also by our fallen natures are rebellious against God. None of us are any better than than the Jew. As God unfolds His plan for mankind Israel will be right there in the middle of it. He is a Jeolous God. Jeolous for respect and honor to His name. And he is jeolous for His people Israel. They may fail as we all do. God want them to be a holy people. If they fail that is between them and God. Its not for us to become like gods and try to hurt or harm them. The Holy One of Israel will stand for them right up until the end when the return of Gods anointed Messiah Jesus returns. That is what we as Christians believe. That is why we have a special relationship with the Jewish people. That is why we support them as a nation, as imperfect as it may be at times. God has established the relationship. John, I tried to not sound dogmatic. I attempted to keep it simple for the sake of others reading our comments here. You are obviously a person of understanding and intellegence. I hope I was able to satisfy your inquiry, if only a little.

You ask: "are there certain 'instincts' that we should promote, adopt, encourage, and others we should not?" Most certainly there are and by and large these are incoporated in the civil laws of most modern representative democracies. With the help of these laws It is possible for any society to function effectively without recourse to some sky Fuhrer. As to where we came from, it's perfectly clear that we crawled out of the slime several billion years after the big bang. And what caused the big bang? Was it some beardy ould fellow up in the sky who clicked his fingers and said, Let there be light? Well, Fred, your guess about that is as good as mine. And despite what all the various faith communities tell you, that's all they're doing as well: guessing.