Jewish Scene  Rabbi Levi Brackman
Gay march: It’s about immodesty, stupid
Rabbi Levi Brackman
Published: 08.09.06, 11:13
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1. A good piece, keep up the good
NTI ,   Red Chili   (09.08.06)
work, Rabbi.
2. I completely agree!
Bechor   (09.08.06)
I don't have a problem with gays or lesbians. I am all civil liberties and completely support freedom of expression. However, the gays who are constantly complaining of being abused are now being no better than those who abuse them. By parading through the streets of Jerusalem they are showing insensitivity, disrespect, and an incredible level of hypocrisy. Come on guys, we're fighting for your rights and you spit in our faces!
3. I don't want to see it... get a room!
Zionist ,   Israel   (09.08.06)
I completely agree with the rav. I have nothing against homosexuals, I'm not religious, and I believe in free society, but a bunch of people wearing next to nothing while making out with eachother in the middle of the street just makes me sick, gays or not. Jerusalem is the holiest Jewish city in the world, and it ranks pretty high up there for Christianity and Islam too. These people who show no consideration for others' wishes have no right to have their own wishes met.
4. It's a question of Egoism!!!
al mann ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (09.08.06)
In this Age of Enlightment(???), of democracy, the individual has sacrificed others in order to further his goals. No matter what others think, he will achieve what there is to be achieved. There is no concept of holiness since none exists today. The goal is to satisfy the "I', the self. All methods are usable to reach the goal of achieving the self--which is part of selfish. Democracy, as it used today, gives everyone the right to do what he pleases even at the expense of others. It's a psycho-social conflict. Therefore, Jerusalem and its citizens are forced to pay the price of this conflict in order to satisfy the egoes of others. Forget about holiness, sacredness, and the greatness of the past. Man has never learned from history so he is forced to pay for his evildoing by wars, poverty, AIDS, and other factors not for his benefit. Heaven help us!!!
5. Rabbi Brackman on Gay Parade
Howard ,   Washington, DC   (09.08.06)
I would like to praise Rabbi Brackman for recognizing the rights of gay people and for advocating the same rights for gay people in a committed relationship as for married people (I hope that includes the actual right to marry). However, I disagree with him that the focus of many of the parade organizers is its sexual nature. I think he holds a double standard here. If a heterosexual couple is kssing/holding hands in a park, it is treated as a nonevent. However, if a gay couple does the same, at least some part of the public will be accusing gays of flaunting their sexuality, etc., which is what I think the Rabbi is doing here. That is not to say some in the parade will not be doing more, but that is not the end of the world, and is certainly not the focus of the event. The Rabbi states that "It is undeniable that homophobia plays a role in the campaign to disallow the Gay Pride march through Jerusalem. However, this is not the issue for most people. " I disagree here as well. I think some people do not wish to overtly appear homophobic, hence they jump on the "sexual nature" of the event to atttack it. This is just a continuation of the "back in the closet" line of thinking. "I am all for the gays, as long as they don't flaunt it". Is that the same as "I am all for the Jews, as long as they don't flaunt it"? That is no public displays of their religion - - no yalmulkahs, no tzitzit, no Hanukah lights in the window, and hey, while we are at it, lets put the entrance to the synagogue in the back alley. Again, though, I do not want to be overly neagative towards the Rabbi. I do appreciate and welcome his advocacy for "full" rights for gay people.
6. Don't agree with everything
AB ,   TheRock   (09.08.06)
Rabbi Brackman's recognition of gay rights and view that gov't should afford same sex couples same rights is completely incogruent with saying it is a sin. If G-d says it is a sin you can be sure homosexuality is bad for society just as crime is bad for society. Agreeing that gov't should support same sex couples is basically encouraging the destruction of society. I can't understand a Rabbi saying something like this. The rest of the article was a point well made.
7. Rabbi, it's about sin. Period.
Moshe ,   Jeruslalem   (09.08.06)
8. It's About Bad Policy, Stupid
bobba fett ,   eisham, israel   (09.08.06)
Dear Rabbi, Respectfully, as a heterosexual non-homophobe who loves all animals and has a dog and having lived in the heart of modern Jerusalem for some years, I must disagree with your theory. It is *not* comparable to consider the possibility of killing innocent dogs in your dog-loving town in the generally peaceful town of Evergreen, Colorado. What homosexuals choose to do behind closed doors, or in public, is their own affair, as long as they aren't committing crimes or disturbing the peace. Sexual provocation, as annoying and distasteful as it is, should not be an alarm bell to frighten people into homophobia, or homohatred. The problem with the Gay Pride march is that it is not about Gay Pride at all. It is about rubbing their extreme political agenda in the face of the peace loving residents of Jerusalem, while hypocritically those same Gay Pride marchers despicably ignore to demonstrate against the source of most of the anti-gay hate and violence we see in Israel: Palestinian and Arab culture. If the Gay Pride marchers had any self-respect, they would acknowledge what the Danish Ambassador to Israel has already said publicly: That Israel is an advanced, open society that welcomes and receives all peace loving people with equality. Israel is in fact one of the world leaders in respecting equal rights for all of its citizens and visitors, including homosexuals. If the Gay Pride marchers had any self-respect, they would also march on Ramallah, on Jenin, and on Gaza City, to demand equal rights where they are in fact denied those rights, and where they are brutalized by backwards, Islamist fanatics. Instead, the gay rainbow is waved hypocritically against the very liberal state that defends them, and the gay rainbow flag is waved in support of the very arab extremists who are so happy to kill gays and lesbians whenever they choose to do so. The irony is sickening, and the silence of otherwise decent gays and lesbians, is deafening. Shabat Shalom
9. Dafka
Stu   (09.08.06)
This is really a perfect response! I am not religious and yet, this is exactly how I feel. Do what you want, (Hetro/Homo) but get a room. And if you have to parade, what’s wrong with Tel-Aviv. Why dafke Jerusalem? The Rabbi is a very sensible man, and makes a lot of sense!
10. Eating shrimp is also a sin
David ,   Marietta USA   (09.08.06)
As is allowing your neighbor to work on the Sabbath. In fact, if I am not mistaken, Torah allows me to kill my neighbor for working on the Sabbath. That would not be a sin. Just what is your definition of "sin" since we are on the subject. (Further, if I am not mistaken, there is no Hebrew word for "sin", the closer approximation in English is "abomination" Sin appears to be a goyish concept) So which abomination is worse: being gay, having any form of sex outside of marriage, working on Shabbat, or my killing my neighbor who is working on Shabbat, or parading around Jerusalem in a tutu like an idiot? Rabbi, you are confusing me.
11. I'll have to agree
Jonathan M. "Tactica ,   Ofrah, Israel   (09.08.06)
As I said in a talkback to Noa Raz's "Fighting for Jerusalem" and later personal discussion with her - for which I am grateful - I'll have to agree with Mr. Brackman. Overall, in my opinion, the enery put into fighting for the parade should be put into education (for example, teach children not to hate gays), or make a demonstration instead of a parade. Many in Jerusalem are afraid that what's happening in Tel-Aviv - which is a huge orgy on the city streets - will happen also in Jerusalem. The gay community wants to be respected, and it's understandable. But it's is imperitent to respect others too. Because as for now, the "fight for Jersualem" looks more like a fight against religion and religious people.
12. THE RABBI IS SHOWING HIS IGNORANCE!
bill handel ,   brooklyn,usa   (09.08.06)
Rabbi, the Torah--whose views you purport to represent--specifically singles out homosexuality as an "abomination." So, it is totally fallacious to equate homosexuality and hetrosexuality, as you have done in this article. Moreover, the Torah sages explain that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because they instituted the practice of "Gay marriage, with official recognition of Gay marriage contracts.
13. Utterly disgusting!
Maurice ,   Montreal, Canada   (09.08.06)
I am appalled and disgusted to see that the slaughtering of dogs is shown so casually in this article as a comparison point . I did not know that in the US such backwards practices as seen in China or Korea existed. While in Europe today human's best friend's rights are being legislated, here its being talked of "dog meat is eaten as a delicacy "! Am I glad that I live in Canada where our society's mores and morals are light years ahead of the US, including the matter of Gay marriage.
14. "Homophobia"
Bill S. ,   Arizona, USA   (09.08.06)
The author hits a point in his description of the homosexual cabal's attempts to foment a "cynical attempt to paint otherwise peace-loving people as homophobes." If there's a "last place" for this type of display it is Jerusalem. It is not "homophobia" [whatever that is], to say "not here".
15. The importance of Jerusalem Pride
Abroad ,   Ireland   (09.08.06)
It is exactly this type of comment, from an orthodox rabbi in the American outback, that underscores the importance of holding a Gy Pride Parade in Jerusalem. He obviously has no idea what type of parade it is, and just presumes that everything in Israel is like in America. In Jerusalem, we don't prance around in our underwear. On the contrary, we are citizens of this beautiful but difficult city and therefore have respect for others who live there. Our march does not include the "colourful" floats to be found even in Tel Aviv, but is more a demonstration for tolerance and, dare I say, pluralism (something that the orthodox need to learn about). We wish to exercise our democratic right to show our existence and to let thpse unfortunate enough to live in closed societies know that there is an alternative (even a religious one), if they wish to take it. To stop traffic on main roads on Shabbat is ok (even by breaking the Shabbat), but to let citizens exercise their right in an unprovacative way, is not...
16. Kol hakavod rabbi, you said it right !
Ezra ,   Canada   (09.08.06)
17. Gay Parade
a Christian ,   USA   (09.08.06)
My Bible says that this is a sin and an abomination. Do we want to obey God or man? The consequences are down by the Dead Sea......at Sodom
18. Equations tell the whole tale
Eyal ,   Rehovot   (09.08.06)
You are equating consensual relationships of affection between two people with the slaughter of animals? You could have stopped your arguement there. You religious fundamentalists are a disgrace to humanity and any diety would be ashamed what comes out of your mouth in its name.
19. O.K. to be Gay if one doesn't act on one's feelings
Scott Neuman ,   Okemos, USA   (09.08.06)
Gay people are human beings. It is not that psychological state that is an issue. It is the physical act itself. As far a parades go, a sensitive gay person should understand that such physical acts are not allowed in the Bible. Freedom does not mean sticking it in the face of your opponent. If Gays need to have a parade I suggest that they parade in a predominately gay area, such as the Mukata.
20. Interesting Article - Though Hypocritical
Daniel ,   US   (09.08.06)
From the Rabbi's website: "Levi is also a founding member of The Movement for a Tolerant World, an organization that offers young people in Asia, the Middle East and internationally a positive and tolerant ideology and through that the opportunity to make real and positive changes in their world." Rabbi - pick one position and stick with it. From what we know of Colorado you have plenty of work to do there. When you've accomplished your goal, I'd love to hear your position about things in Israel.
21. religouse or not
maya ,   jerusalem   (09.09.06)
if we can put a line between the two ,,this is religouse ,and that is not ..i think the non religouse will be more vigourace away from logic ....but as it is not easy toput this line ..i see here more than one agree with the rabi even they said that they are not religouse ..to me i believe strongly with the religion and iam against this pride becouse of the religion first and of logic also ..the freedom must be to yourselfe and not against the most ..if we aske the most of people here in jerusalem if they will offended the prid most of them will say ..yes //but if we aske these homosexal if they offended by preventing the pride i think they will said yes ..as non religouse are non logic in this point ..but as the majority of people are against this pride becouse the majority is not homosexal by their religion or logic ..SO THIS PRIDE MUST NOT ALLOWED
22. Maurice, LOL
CJ ,   USA   (09.09.06)
Amazing that you can turn even this article around and find something to criticize the US about. lol We all know that Canada is superior and never does anything wrong or immoral. You can stop the campaign for -- (is it FOR Canada or AGAINST the US?). ;o)
23. AMEN #17
WATCHMAN777 ,   USA   (09.09.06)
WHY DO THEY HAVE TO PARADE, IF THEY "CHOOSE" TO LIVE THAT LIFE STYLE AND FLAUNT THEIR "SINS" IN FRONT OF GOD, SO BE IT, BUT "WHY" DO THE REST OF US HAVE TO KNOW OR SEE. YOU DON'T SEE US HAVING A "STRAIGHT PARADE" NOW DO YA?! A RABBI SHOULD KNOW BETTER! WHAT DOES THE TORA AND THE BIBLE TEACH ABOUT THIS "LIFE STYLE CHOICE?"
24. Definition of "sin"
M. Narunsky ,   Ashkelon, Israel   (09.09.06)
To no. 10. David, you are mistaken. Although I'm not a Hebrew expert, I do know that the Hebrew word for "sin" is KHET. The word for "abomination" is "TO'AVAH". And where did you read that the Torah allows you to kill your neighbor for working on the Sabbath?
25. Opposition to gay is gender-based
joh ,   miami, florida   (09.10.06)
The reason why some gays make sex an issue is that heterosexuals have made it that way. Look at the laws that applied to gay people - they all related to sodomy in private. It's heterosexuals who have made gay sex their business. As for the sensitivity issue, oh spare me the hurt feelings. I have a right to hurt your feelings as much as you have a right to hurt mine. If we were to ban parades based on hurt feelings, there would be no parades permitted anywhere. Someone might oppose the use of gas-guzzling vehicles to carry the Grand Marshall, for instance. Also, keep in mind that opposition to homosexuality is usually gender-based. Men oppose male homosexuality more than they oppose female homosexuality. Just look at the men's magazines - nearly all of them have got girl-on-girl pictures in them. Seems to me like major hypocrisy there.
26. the Rabbi is saying he supports the parade without nudies?
jamila kablamsky ,   ny, ny   (09.10.06)
the Rabbi is saying he supports the parade without nudies? if so does that mean he will walk in the parade if no nudies promise to show up?
27.  # 17 You are WRONG
A Gay Christian ,   USA   (09.10.06)
Jesus was Gay! It is all thru the NT. CAN YOU PROVE JESUS WAS NOT GAY?!
28. 2 No. 10: mistake here, David!!!
E. Teichtal   (09.10.06)
I HAVE to comment on what David from No.10 said. You are a little bit confused, I fear, with your bible facts - which is a shame, since it seems you honestly would like to understand. Yes - keeping the Shabbat is a Torah mandate, and yes, gay practices are - according to a Halachic viewpoint - abominations. Both may or may not be punishable by death when disregarded, BUT only at at a time when the Sanhedrin would be practicing in a full forum (71 judges) at a time when the Holy Temple is built. A few words on the Biblical death sentence: The death sentence was a sentence that was EXTREMELY difficult to pass down - even when those criteria were fulfilled and it is a well known fact that a Jewish court that issued more than one death sentence over a seventy year period (or somthing very similar - my facts are a little hazy here) was considered BY THE TALMUD a "cruel" court (just in a manner of speaking, of course. They were adhering to Halacha - Jewish law - in every way. The Torah is simply emphasising how rare the death sentence is supposed to be and how high the regard for human life was.) Under NO circumstances would you ever have been allowed to simply go out and kill your neighbour for not keeping the shabbat, on a whim. In fact - you would probably be guilty of murder. There would have had to be two witnesses, multiple warnings to the one commiting the sin, and many other complex conditions would have had to be fulfilled before a death sentence would have been handed down by a Jewish court of law. As I said before - this was an extremely rare occurence. In fact there are examples of certain acts that , halachically, deserve the death penalty that - according to the Talmud - were never ever punished by death, since the conditions that the Talmud laid down for the penalty to be given were so complex as to be practically impossible to ever co-exist in one given time. The reason that the penalty was actually stated as such despite this, is to act as a deterrent for people who feel the urge to commit a sin. The very rare occasions where the death penalty were carried out served as powerful deterrents to wannabe criminals in the peaceful Jewish State. Indeed, nowadays the USA prisons are full of criminals living in happy oblivion to what they have committed (sometimes horrific crimes against humanity) and the deterrent factor seems to be extremely weak. American society has very high percentages of crime and the ones who end up suffering from this are all those compassionate people who are trying to protect every human's rights so passionately that in too many instances their own rights are trampled on by some peoples' unbridled, undisciplined, behaviour - rapists / thieves etc.... Why the gay sexual act is considered such a crime (even though it would seem that a gay person does not hurt anyone else by his actions) is something that cannot be explained in such short confines. However - to cut a very long story short... The Torah is Divine, and since G-d created man, it would seem that He of all beings would know man's true nature. If G-d said that man can and should live without having same-sex relationships, obviously that is something that can and should be observed. In the Torah's view having same-sex relationships perverts nature's true course, and nature's true purpose - propagating the human species to Glorify G-d and living for more than an egoistically inclined relationship. This view, of-course, is underpinned by a belief that the Torah is Divine. And that really is a topic for another day...
29. DEAR GAY CHRISTIAN
GAELIC ,   IRELAND   (09.10.06)
WHO CARE IF JESUS WAS GAY..WE DONT ADMIRE HIM FOR HIS GAY QUALITIES BUT FOR HIS OTHER WORLDLY QUALITIES.. AND IF HE WAS GAY GOOD LUCK TO HIM.. I COME FM A PLACE WHERE WE HAVE A GAY PARADE EVERY YEAR, WE LOVE IT, THEY LOVE IT, TOURISTS LOVE IT..ITS A WIN WIN SITUATION..THE JERUSALEMITES ARE SAYING THEY DONT WANT THE PARADE WHY NOT GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT, HOLD THE PARADE JUST DO IT ELSEWHERE. IS IS REALLY WORTH ALL THIS ANIMOSITY AND MAYBE VIOLENCE..I REALLY DOUBT IT..AND I DONT WANT TO READ ABT PEOPLE GETTING KILLED WHILST EXPRESSING THEIR CHOICES..THIS IS NOT ABOUT GAY THIS ABOUT RESPECTING OTHER PEOPLE AS WELL...HOW WUD U LIKE IT IF A BUNCH OF ULTRA RELIGIOUS FANATICS PARADED DOWN UR STREET..THINK ABT IT AND GET BACK TO ME.
30. To Rabbi Brackman
Micha ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (09.10.06)
I totally support what you wrote. I originally come from Sydney Australia, and I can testify that the gay parades that are held there every year are a flagrant flaunting of the most vulgar sexual behaviors imaginable. Such parades are not a call for an end of descrimination against gays. Rather, they are an extreme form of public sexual exhibitionism.
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