News
Vatican: Pope upset that Muslims were offended
Associated Press
Published: 16.09.06, 14:44
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
196 Talkbacks for this article
31. (#2, #3) Nannette
Amir Al-Safir ,   Lebanon   (09.16.06)
Dear Nannette, We meet again, on the opposite side of the argument. You are stating the incorrect in your argument. You are alluding to the fact that Muslims cannot protest in their own country. What ever happened to the freedom of speech? So, you said, “.jihad violence - as has been proven today .” What has been proven today? Can you tell us right now please?? Ofcourse the Muslim around the world have proven to the Pope that he is 100% correct on the issue of violence in the name of any religion. That’s why they are exercising their amiable right to prove to him that “Charity begins at home.” His statement was seen in the eyes of the Muslims that he lacked sensitivity towards other religion. Of course you are not going to expect the Rabbis to protest on behalf of the Muslims, are you? Yes, “Here we go again”, you have to be sensitive to the others and cannot insinuate misdeeds in term of other religion’s prophets based on what a misfit Byzantine did say in the past. Do not forget that in those days it was the Crusades who rampage whole Christian villages and impaled the victims on wooden spears as they traveled across the continent to commit another Genocide in Jerusalem. It was against this violent backdrop that this Byzantine Bozo made his comment. Especially when Saladine rose to put an end of this European Crusade on Islamic Lands. Bozo as Bozo would be. Amir
32. The Pope had a right to say what he said
Ellen Prescott ,   Southsea, Hampshire   (09.16.06)
And, I believe, his statements were based somewhat on fact. Just as Christians violently forced people to convert to Christianity, so did Muslims. It is a fact. If many Muslims turn to violence when they hear something that they don't like, then I fear for the ability of the greater Muslim world to adapt to 21st century standards. Arabs from Saudi Arabia brutally conquested throughout Egypt, Libya, Morocco, etc forcing the natives to convert to Islam. It may not be easy to hear but it's true and it happened. Muslims (as well as everyone else) are going to have to learn to cope with hearing things with which they disagree, without turning to violent riots and bombing. Get over it and prove your detractors wrong through words, not the 'sword'.
33. No wonder it is hard to explain
Observing ,   in New York   (09.16.06)
The Pope finds that it is hard to explain the implications of the point he was trying to make because, in order to understand what he meant, one has to reflect on the true meaning behind the quotation, which is that the spreading of religion through violence and forcible conversion is morally wrong. However, no matter how hard the pope tries to explain what he meant, he is dealing with a people who have a profound learning disability when it comes to metaphoric language. Unlike Christians and Jews, whose ministers and rabbis have a tradition of asking their congragations to reflect on the meaning of their sermons and draw lessons from them, the Imams and Clerics in the mosques just tell their followers what they sould believe and demand blind obedience. This is what creates the knee-jerk reactions and lack of restraint of Muslims everywhere because they view any criticism as a threat to their rigidly held beliefs, rather than as an opportunity to learn from mistakes and seek a better and more righteous path.
34. noora (#20)
Holy ,   Land of Milk & Honey   (09.16.06)
The HOLY LAND or TERRA SANCTA ISRAEL never refers to Palestine,,, (and the Philistines-פלישתים are not arabs... ) sorry !!!! The lands you are talking about are Jewish Lands -- for thousands of years,,, long before the muslims crawled from their caves in the deserts of arabia in the 7th century... Fifth commandment in the Quoran is to spread Islam by the sword,,, (Dar el Harb). So -- what are you so angry about ??! - The Pope hasn't stated anything that is not correct...!!!!
35. 29. Amir Al-Safir
Casiopea   (09.16.06)
Hello, Amir. Well said. I have it you are Muslim. I know another Lebanese named Amin. You now remind me of him. Well, I wish all the Muslims were like you. Regards
36. #19 atmawi - Words don't kill, but Jihadists do!
Nannette ,   London, UK   (09.16.06)
You've proved the Pope's words to be true, by saying that his words will kill people. Show me any instances where actually verbal dialogue has killed anyone. It's the jihadists who kill - not words! But still, they'll find any excuse to wage war against the truth.
37. Bush must hear this
hanzalah naji ali ,   alshajara   (09.16.06)
I hope that the right wing leaders who govern the United States today can hear you, and to hear all bad comments about christianity that comes from israeli jews, I hope the normal american christian people can hear how much jews hate christianity and even the consider muslims there cousin and better than christian, i hope they can come to israel and see how jews deals with christian, i hope they know were there tax paying go, and for what, i hope that they know that in lebanon 50% is christian, and to know 30% of places bombed there were for christians.
38. #1
Joshua ,   USA   (09.16.06)
Let’s say for argument sake I tell you to your face and without any provocation that your mother was a prostitute, what would you do? You don’t have to answer this, because different people react differently. So a smart and civilized man especially a leader should not be saying offensive statements like that. Sorry about the example.
39. Why apologise?
John Corish ,   Dublin, Ireland   (09.16.06)
I regard many elements of Shariah Law to be both evil and inhumane. If this Law truely stems from the teachings of Mohammed then it follows that at least some of his teachings are inhumane and evil. Is the Pope expected to tell lies just to avoid offending Muslim sensibilities? Or should he now go into hiding like Salman Rushdie? In fact, the predictably angry and violent response of many Muslims to his statement actually makes the Pope's point very well indeed.
40. Denouncing Jihad and Requesting Dialogue
Nannette ,   London, UK   (09.16.06)
The most telling part of the Pope’s speech, which is causing so much outrage in the Muslim world, is the last part, the conclusion. Said the Pontiff: The West has long been endangered by this aversion to the questions which underlie its rationality, and can only suffer great harm thereby. The courage to engage the whole breadth of reason, and not the denial of its grandeur - this is the programme with which a theology grounded in Biblical faith enters into the debates of our time. "Not to act reasonably, not to act with logos, is contrary to the nature of God", said Manuel II, according to his Christian understanding of God, in response to his Persian interlocutor. It is to this great logos, to this breadth of reason, that we invite our partners in the dialogue of cultures. To rediscover it constantly is the great task of the university. And there we have it: "It is to this great logos, to this breadth of reason, that we invite our partners in the dialogue of cultures" … he is inviting a dialogue. How many of the rioters, the effigy burners and protesters (such as the Palestinians in Gaza) do you think have actually read the speech – the whole speech?
41. (#16) Grantman, Atlanta "Still in Sigh mode?"
Amir Al-Safir ,   Lebanon   (09.16.06)
Dear Grantman, It is a sensitive time that the Muslims are going through. After over 300 years of Ottoman occupation, we got the Western Occupation by the British and the French all over ME. What do you think the West was doing there? Kibbutz or Picnic? Of course they came to loot the region and rob the people of their rights, and it goes without saying, kill them all if they dare speak. They of course killed One Million Arabs in Algeria. That was not too long ago, back in the late 1950's.. Today we have the state of Settlers from Europe that have killed many Palestinians and robbed their land in the name of their Religion and the funny insult is that it is still going on every day in Gaza and the West Bank, yes, they came literally from Europe and killed Palestinians in the name of Religion…. Care to comment on this. I challenge you!! So, my friend, the region is still highly charged and we have this menace roaming freely in Afghanistan, Bin Laden and his Jihadist. Do you think for a moment how aggravating it is for the Majority of Muslims to see this maniac kill innocent civilians in the name of Islam? Can't you all guys see that Bin Laden's militia, the Qaeda, have already killed thousands of Iraqis, much more than they did in the West. It is already very tough times that the Muslims are going through. We can't get rid of our Dictators and thus, we cannot reform our societies according to our Democratic way of life. When One Dictator was brought down, Saddam, look what had happened in Iraq. Another Ball game for the West. Another one of their miscalculation in Iraq as they did to Afghanistan. The Job is not finished and more cancer is spreading among our society. It is not easy for me as a Muslim to see this land of ours, our way of life, our culture, the very Middle East that had given the whole World the "Gift of Civilization", its hard to see it once again in despair. Yes, Middle East has given the world these very precious elements that we call: The high Moral Ground, the Alphabet for you to read and write and communicate, and the Numbers for you to relate accurately to the world that we are all part of. So, what more are you asking from us?? No, Mr. Grantman, the Muslims around the world do not subscribe to this violence by the few. But, it does not help at all for you to subscribe to this violence on the behalf of the Majority Muslims. Its easy for you to say what you said without thought, much less of respect for others. Carry on like the rest on this forum who see only fun in pounding on the true innocent in this unfair world. Have you ever considered this verb, "Helping us help you to help the others" before. What ever happened to the "Connected World" and Global affairs? We are all very much connected and we can help you when you become desperate. But we have to help ourselves first to overcome our vulnerability today. Amir
42. 30. wildstein charles
Casiopea   (09.16.06)
Are you angry because things aren't like that anymore?
43. what i wrote in # 37 is to answer #30
hanzalah naji ali ,   alshajarah   (09.16.06)
44. Muslims never killed Christ, why Pope is going after them?
bj ,   usa   (09.16.06)
45. Islamics control-rage
Donna Diorio ,   Dallas USA   (09.16.06)
The civilized world is letting Islamics control us with their disproportuate "outrage." We better quit allowing ourselves to be intimidated by rage that is out of control and over the top. We better figure out pretty quick that our response cannot continue to be one of shrinking back. Political correctness only rewards those who believe brutality and rage are the path to a better life. It never is for anyone.
46. The Vatican: 1,400 years of Evil
Hani ,   Montreal, Canada   (09.16.06)
Let it be very clear that we Muslims dont need somebody like the Pope or any other "head" of the Christian Catholic church to question the ethics or morale of Islam. The reason behind this is very simple. The Pope is not in a position to preach about goodness vs evil: the very history of the papacy paints an ugly picture of corruption, excesses, genocide (the Conquistadors butchered and killed millions in the name of the church). It is an institution so dettached from humanity and contemporary issues that it proves innefective and even anti-progress (anti abortion+contraception, stem cell research, etc.). Benedict XVI fix your own house before tagging our religion evil. Your words only deepen a very, very dangerous rift. It it you who should be in the spotlight, not the Muslims of the world.
47. #37 hypocrite hanzalah
(09.16.06)
Excuse me, sir, but who was it that burned down the YMCA and just torched some churches in Nablus? Are you blaming the Jews AGAIN? Nice try, but actions speak louder than words. Christians along with the rest of humanity are beginning to see who is the real threat to their beliefs. They're not as dumb as you think.
48. to nr 37
wildstein charles ,   petach tikva Israel   (09.16.06)
You can not read I suppose , I wrote :this is a far away history , not today's . The Judeo-Christian relations are very good today and my letter was not an hate one
49. #46 and 44 - Well Said and Awsom Dudes!!!!
Sal ,   Canada   (09.16.06)
You guys 100% correct and thanks for your support.
50. He Should apologize for his ignorance!
Sammy ,   Canada   (09.16.06)
Next time he should think twice before he opens his mouth and attack other people religion or beliefs!
51. Aesop
John J. ,   Moncton,Canada   (09.16.06)
Should we mention Aesops Fables and Hermes cart ? It`s ante Islam so theres nobody to slag.
52. Why cant tht Pope Watch Mel's movie THE PASSION!!
Sal ,   Canada   (09.16.06)
Did they know that Jews who tried to Kill the Christ not the Muslims! I think he is losing him mind for making such statements and he should be sorry for what he said and Hope he learns his lesson!
53. Mr. Amir I have to respond to your comments
(09.16.06)
Mr. Amir, You are revising history from your own biased perspective. The "Settlers" of whom you speak were driven OUT of their national homeland (Israel) throughout history, first by the Babylonians and then by the Romans. These people were settlers in Europe, not Israel. They did not come back to their traditional homeland to rob and pillage in the name of their religion. They were driven OUT of Europe by genocide and the only motive was survival and finding a safe refuge from the evil regimes of the world who always seek to destroy them. The fact is, Jews kill Palestinians in order to avoid being killed (i.e. in self-defense and NOT to convert people forcibly and turn them into Jews) You omit the fact that the Israeli's left Gaza and ended their occupation there 2 years ago. If they wanted only to rob land, why do they always give it back in order to achieve peace?
54. What's the difference betwen Sorry, Upset and Apology?
cleo ,   cairo   (09.16.06)
Washingtonpost wrote: Pope Benedict is sorry Muslims were offended by a speech on Islam that provoked fury around the world and led to calls for the leader of the Catholic church to apologize, an aide said on Saturday. CNN wrote: Pope Benedict XVI has said he is "very upset" that his speech on Islam offended Muslims and expressed his respect for their faith, according to the Vatican. BBC wrote: Pope Benedict XVI says he is sorry about the offence caused by his speech referring to the Muslim faith. *UK praise for Pope apology *Muslim press anger over Pope *Pope reacts to row: Full text
55. The West Now Sees The TRUTH About Islam
Nannette ,   London, UK   (09.16.06)
I don't think the majority of Europeans, Americans or Australians will be so tolerant of Islam any more. Just look at the disproportionate reactions to the Pope's speech, mostly by illiterates who didn't hear the message, which was one of peaceful dialogue, but their leaders, chose instead to take passages out of context and make out as if the perceived insult was the whole speech. We won't tolerate the lies any longer, nor will we support any of their causes. At long last, the silent majority will be have a voice, and reject the demands made by the Islamist minority living in our coiuntries. If they don't like the western way of life, they can go to any Muslim state that suits them.
56. offense by quotation
Mustafa ,   Egypt   (09.16.06)
The pope has offended Muslims by quoting from others saying. Y net cited the Associated Press saying (teachings of Islam's founder). You should not call Muhammad the founder of Islam. Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah (God of Muhammad and all Muslims). Allah is the founder of Islam. I am wondering is it a general policy to offend Muslims using quotation as a way of escaping responsibility?
57. WELL - I WISH WE (JEWS) COULD MAKE THE POPE SCARED
JASON ,   LALA LAND   (09.16.06)
SAD AS IT IS TO SAY - I CANT HELP BUT BE SOMEWHAT ENCOURAGED BY ALL THIS MUSLIM ANGER - THE POPE IS NOW SWEATING. FOR ALL THE CHURCH HAS DONE TO US - IT IS ALMOST EMPOWERING TO SEE A WHOLE PART OF THE WORLD WHERE HE IS MADE TO ACCOUNT FOR HIS ACTIONS THEY HAVE NO FEAR OF HIM OR HIS LEGIONS
58. #31 Amir - You should read what I've written
Nannette ,   London, UK   (09.16.06)
I said that the Pope was right and that the subsequent violence by Muslims, proved his point. Whether or not it's in their own country is irrelevant, but I very much doubt that free speech in an Islamic state would cover any Christian protests against Islam. As for the violence, people were killed today in Thailand, Churches attacked in the West Bank, and in Basra. The breaking news is still coming in on the AP newswire... so there will be more to come. What's very sad, is that the vast majority of the Pope's speech covered peaceful dialogue between religious groups - and the Muslim outrage has proved that it's one group that doesn't want it.
59. To Mustafa
California Bear ,   Berkeley, USA   (09.16.06)
That's YOUR BELIEF Mustafa. You believe Muhammed is "God's messenger", that's your prerogative. I believe he was a man looking out for his own self interest and the violent method that he spread his religion proves that. People are not obliged to subscried to the Islamic mode of thinking. I believe Christ is the Messiah. You obviously do not. I will never ask you as a Muslim to say that Jesus is the Messiah, just as I will never proclaim Muhammed as a Prophet of God. Here's the difference though between Christians and Muslims: when Christians school girls have been decapitated on their way to school in Indonesia, when churches are bombed in the Gaza strip and the YMCA is burned down, I can't even take my Bible into Saudi Arabia, when Coptic Christians are attacked in your own country, what do Christians do: denounce those acts but not resort to violence. When Muslims are offended here's what happens and you can't deny it: decapitations, defenestration, calls to violence, vandalism of property, violent protests, etc. If you ever leave Egypt and get a moment where your thoughts are not dictated to you read "A Politically IncCorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades". You'll learn about your "faith" and your "prophet" things that you can't learn in Egypt.
60. "...why are they not screaming?"
gerd schulz ,   germany   (09.16.06)
Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage. Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed.  No Muslim outrage. Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia.  A Christian school.  No Muslim outrage. Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq.  No Muslim outrage. Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt.  No Muslim outrage. A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India.  Kills six. No Muslim outrage. Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. No Muslim outrage. Let's go way back.  Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics.  No Muslim outrage. Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel.  No Muslim outrage. Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses.  Over 700 are injured.  No Muslim outrage. Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder.  No Muslim outrage. Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali.  No Muslim outrage. Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons.  No Muslim outrage Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world.  No Muslim outrage. Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge.  No Muslim outrage. Muslims around the world express outrage over Pope Benedict XVI's remarks on Islam! When do they take to the streets to express their outrage at the radicals who are making their religion the object of worldwide hatred and ridicule? Islamic writer Salman Rushdie wrote of these silent Muslims in a New York Times article three years ago.  "As their ancient, deeply civilized culture of love, art and philosophical reflection is hijacked by paranoiacs, racists, liars, male supremacists, tyrants, fanatics and violence junkies, why are they not screaming?" (author unknown)
Previous talkbacks
Next talkbacks
Back to article