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Germany: Israel ready for Shebaa Farms talks
Ron Ben-Yishai
Published: 20.09.06, 14:20
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32 Talkbacks for this article
1. chip...chip...chip...away little Israel....
(09.20.06)
2. Hez has been smuggling in weapons +++ since war end
Alan ,   SA   (09.20.06)
3. Germany: Israel ready for Shebaa Farms talks
Patrick B. Leek ,   Bexley, Ohio U.S.A.   (09.20.06)
Aren't the Shebaa Farms originally Syrian? So Israel is going to 'return' it to Lebanon? Sounds like Hizbullah logic.
4. Macabre UN,macabre Siria,macabre arabs!
Keren ,   Sao Paulo   (09.20.06)
Why is Germany with that wishfull thinking "impression"about Israel's "negotiations"over Sheba Farms? Why these countries put their noses so macabrely in other's affairs? Why do they want Israel to give up these lands,knowing perfectly that it would put Israel in a very vulnerable position? Sheba Farms and EVERYTHING won by Israel,belong to Israel. Why should Israel put to death its soldiers and its ideals so cheaply and so worthlessly? If Israel's wimp and idiotic politicians want to give up everything,why fight then? Only to kill its soldiers and throw to the bin milions of shekels?
5. Price
J K ,   NYC, USA   (09.20.06)
The price for such a withdrawl should not simply be the 2 soldiers, but a comprehensive peace agreement between Israel and Lebanon as not only was 425 fulfilled, but this will close the door on any 'pretext' anyone from Lebanon has for attacking Israel (yes, I know it's B.S.). If its going to hurt Israel, its going to cost the Lebenese too, although I dont know why a full peace should be seen as a detriment.
6. Disgusting
Adam ,   Har Dov, Israel   (09.20.06)
So we're going to give Lebanon some land that has NEVER been under the soveriegnty of the Lebanese Republic????????? Why? Because they claim it. Because they attack us. Olmert is a dispicable little worm.
7. BECAUSE EVERY ONE IS TELLING ISRAEL...
andrew ,   miami,fl   (09.20.06)
JUST GIVE THEM SOMETHING AND THEY'LL GO AWAY - JUST GIVE THEM SOMETHING AND THEY'LL GO AWAY BULLSHIT !!!!
8. Olmert has got to go
Sam Weinstein ,   USA   (09.20.06)
Olmert has got to go always giving up everything for nothing. Not even a peace treaty with Lebanon what a idiot.
9. Israel will be in big troubles: Beware of false friends!
Jonathan S ,   Frankfurt, Germany   (09.20.06)
Many important facts have been omitted in the article. The German people is not approving the sending of troops to the Middle East, about 70% are against it. Furthermore the rules of engagement are so ridiculous that the whole affair can only be considered to be big HOAX. For instance the Germans are not allowed to confiscate arms, they can only escort suspicious ships to a Lebanese port where Hizbullah officials could then eventually take over the shipment. Anyway the German navy will not encounter even a single vessel as long as the border between Lebanon and Syria is wide open. The reason for the deployment is quite different: The German navy will come with two frigates specialised in submarine warfare. Are there any subs in Hizbullah’s arsenal? Europe wants to take advantage of the current weak Israeli government and to step into the void left to play a new role in the Middle East. As in the past, Israel should expect much trouble with old Europe – as in the past.
10. Negev , Jerusalem ,Haifa and Tel Aviv are next
Marcel ,   Florida   (09.20.06)
The stupid un-Jewish leaders don't see what they are doing ? Islamic terrorism does pay as Israel is always ready to reward them with more and more. You idiots are in big trouble for your weakness,surrender and appeasment for nothing but threats and lies in return.
11. israel is only as secure as the gov't it elected
aaron ,   ra'anana   (09.20.06)
the people of israel voted for kadima, labor, shas and meretz, and thats the type of head in the sand, surrender-first direction the country has taken
12. Germany, would you give up land for peace?
Ely greenhut ,   Jerusalem Israel   (09.20.06)
13. #12 Germany lost ALL her Eastern Lands end of WW2 for peace
Alan ,   SA   (09.20.06)
14. Please, stop commiting suicide!
Ulrich ,   Jerusalem   (09.20.06)
The Sheba farms have little real actual weight, are quite small and could be given away. BUT symbolically this would be a next step giving in to the destroyers of Israel. Israel SHOULD NOT give these farms. All the enemys of Israel would see this as our weakness and go to further and further attacks. Who agrees in giving back the Sheba farms causes indirectly the deaths of the next war.
15. I fully endorse surrendering Sheba Farms-Appeasement is good
Neville Chamberlain ,   London UK   (09.20.06)
16. Peace first, then land talk..no peace, no deal.
David ,   Boston, USA   (09.20.06)
Israel needs proof of the Arab world making peace FIRST. There can be no talks until the Arab world makes peace first and normalization. Then there can be talk. Everything else has proven false. Look at Egypt.
17. #13 Germany did not give upland for peace.
Ely greenhut ,   Jerusalem Israel   (09.20.06)
Germany started WW 2 & Germany lost all her land during the war. Today it would not give up even a mil. meter of land for peace. Today, Israel is the only country in the world that gives up land for peace. FOR PEACE??? WHAT PEACE. There will never be peace with her Arab neighbors. Their aim is to destroy Israel & nothing less.
18. #13 Germany got back all her land after the wall came down
Ely greenhut ,   Jerusalem Israel   (09.20.06)
19. I repeat: A smaller Israel is better
Mark ,   USA   (09.20.06)
A smaller Israel at peace is the way to go.
20. #13, They had no choice, what with the Soviet Army in Berlin
AK   (09.20.06)
Americans coming from the other side, and besides the Americans and British signed off on the deal in Yalta . Germany did not sign a peace treaty at the end of the WW2, but an unconditional surrender, Alan. You suggest israel does the same? Germany didn't loose the land for peace but "for" defeat.
21. #18, You're wrong. 1/4 of current Poland is on German land
AK   (09.20.06)
(East Prussia, Lower Silesia) and kaliningrad, presently in Russia , used to be a german town.
22. Jung Speak...
stude ham ,   outremont, canada   (09.20.06)
This guy must be on crack... or Israel in deep doo doo with the Olmert hacks in steerage ... or both. It's BOTH!!
23. On Leb politics
Adam ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (09.20.06)
One man is preventing parliament in Lebanon from liberation. Because of him they cannot oust Lahoud the pro Syrian president/comander of the armed forces and create a new electoral law. That man is General Michel Aoun the most powerful Maronite in the country. The next post explains why.
24. PT1The Course of Aoun: Two National Pacts.
Adam ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (09.20.06)
While Lebanon was only created as a country due to the Maronites, the destruction of their position in the Confessionalist Entity has lead to a split in those who remain (the majority of them having had their diaspora rights stolen from them). Since the Saudi-Syrian axis of the greater part of Vassal Lebanon have split, and Syria allied herself with the Iranian rulers of the South,, Bekaa and Southern Beirut, the confessional interest has changed. Many say that the country has split into confessionalists and secularists (incredibly dangerous to Lebanon and I'll tell you why in another post). The truth of the matter is as follows. Traditionally the interests of those who wanted/needed the Lebanese state and identity as a shield were on one side on average the greater part of those were Maronites, Melkites and small minority Christians. On the other side were those who originally embraced their Shami or 'Arab' (lol) identity but subsequently accomadated themselves to the Lebanon that the first group paid lip service to; the equal democratic entity. These on average consisted of the Sunnis and Greek Orthodox Christians. The Druze joined them despite their need of a seperate entity because of their age old power struggle with the Maronites and their working class position. Then we have the Shiites who were always poor and under represented. Many of them joined the first camp when the UNRWA Sunnis/Greek Orthodox non citizens flared up the brewing civil war. Alas due to our harsh occupation many joined a new camp. While the apparently stronger of their militias; HezbALLAH were originally a purely Lebanese sectarian interest entity, their patrons have turned them and their constiuency into their tools and allied them with the the UNRWA residents.
25. PT2 The Course of Aoun: Two National Pacts.
Adam ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (09.20.06)
However what has emerged since the Syrian occupation destroyed Maronite Lebanon and assasinated Hariri is the pact of the Sunnis-Confessionalist Maronites (and other Christians) and Druzes for what Assad did was not what was expected by the Sunnis. He not being a Sunni himself decided it may be a good idea to empower and ally the Shiites, all the while the Saudis had become the patron of the Sunnis. Those on the new March 14th national pact are the US and France through Saudi group of accomadationalist confessionalists. The Aoun initiative: General Michel Aoun has always been a strong backer of Lebanese sovereignty AS AN ALLY OF SECULAR ARABISM. He knows that Lebanon's link to the east runs through Syria OR as far as he's concerned G-d forbid; Israel (a far weaker link). As a man who oppossed Taif and sectarian interests he is now firstly very unhappy that a group of sectarian war criminals run the country under SAUDI patronage; anyone but Saudi. Why? Because like Iran is the mother of Shiite extremism, Saudi is the mother of Sunni extremism. This coupled with the fact that the traditional western approach of leave Assad in power for fear of a Sunni ruler is crumbling (even if it were not the promise of such a scenario looms for him) and that being the case he feels safer to be allied with the Shiites an the Alawite and have their patrons on the other side of the Sunni Syrian sea. It may appear that his policies are diametrically oppossed to those of the Shiite militia ie reempowerment of the Christian Diaspora and new electoral law etc but this is very short sighted. As the Lebanese have seen and unfortunately lost faith in us and gained mistrust, we Israel are untrustworthy sectarian allies and that is something I am very unhappy about. His options are Syria/Iran and Saudi/West. The Saudi backed group are the new version of the original Sunni/Orthodox block whereas the original Maronite block is no more. He knows that like himself; the secularist banner is for the Shiites a means to rule the country. As such he must kiss their feet in order to establish his new national pact with them and gain their trust. He prefers a Maronite-Shiite national pact as local minorities as oppossed to a Maronite-Sunni-Druze one. For him and his consituents, the west has stabed them in the back too much for their own interests.
26. Germany's plans
Sharona   (09.20.06)
Funny, Germany and Syria and Lebanon and Iran and Egypt are all suddenly TRYING to help Israel? By giving up Shebaa Farms they will TRY to release Ehud and Eldad? If only Israel could be so sure that demolition of Perez's plan for 90 "illegal' (sic) communities and giving this area claimed by Syria would bring Shalom Bayit and Shalvah, then fine. But, Olmert the wimp has no plan for after such exchanges and concessions. These countries are all lying and still not preventing Hezbolleh from rearming, nor stopping plans for future attacks and kidnappings. Bush in U.N. spoke forcefully but too carefully. Amazing that the entire world is in upheaval and not one country can stop such devastation. Let Germany send in troops so they can finally get their due, let all these arabs fight against them and may they all be kililed. Israel will only survive if they stop giving in to other nation's desires. We will always be safe, no matter their evil plans. Utzu Eitza V'tufar, Dabru Davar V'lo Yakum.
27. 9 - Absolutely. The build-up is war prep ...
(09.20.06)
DEBKAfile Exclusive Military Report 9.4.06 "Lebanese Security" Is the Pretext for the Naval Babel around Lebanon's Shores The extraordinary buildup of European naval and military strength in and around Lebanon's shores is way out of proportion for the task the European contingents ...to create a buffer between Israel and Hizballah. ..."Lebanese security" and peacemaking is not the object... It is linked to the ...anticipation of a military clash between the United States and Israel v. Iran and possibly Syria...some time from now until November This expectation has brought together the greatest sea and air armada Europe has ever assembled at any point on earth since World War II: 2 carriers with 75 fighter-bombers, spy planes and helicopters on their decks; 15 warships of various types – 7 French, 5 Italian, 2-3 Green, 3-5 German, and 5 American; thousands of Marines – French, Italian and German, as well as 1,800 US Marines. ...if not for Lebanon, what is this fine array of naval power really there for? European ...naval presence ...to prevent ...possible Iranian-US-Israeli war igniting ...Iranian long-range Shahab missile attack on Europe; second, ... deterrent to ...Syria and Hizballah from opening a second front against American-Israel from their eastern Mediterranean coasts. Numbers alone do not do justice to the immense operational capabilities and firepower amassed opposite Lebanon. Take first the three fleet flagships. The USS Mount Whitney (the tallest snowcapped peak in the United States)...[the] most sophisticated command and control suite in the world. US Vice Admiral J. "Boomer" Stufflebeem, formally titled Commander of Joint Task Force Lebanon...can flash intelligence data to EVERY American commander at any point between the eastern Mediterranean and the Persian Gulf and Iran. 1. The American forces opposite Lebanese shores are under direct US command. Since the ...debacle of an American peace force under the UN flag in Somalia, Washington has never again placed its military under UN command. (There is no American contingent in the UNIFIL ground force either.). In other words, USS Mount Whitney, while serving the European fleets as their operational and intelligence nerve center will stay under the sole command of Vice Admiral Stufflebeem in all possible contingencies. [NOT UN] 2. ...the NATO fleet will remain under NATO command, [US is #1 NATO Nation] ...Israel's air and naval units will take their orders from Israeli Navy Headquarters in Haifa and the General Staff in Tel Aviv. ____________________________ http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1208
28. 19-How stupid. Look at a map and the history. Study tactics
(09.20.06)
29. He looks like Hitler to me.
(09.20.06)
30. Big Mistake
Brenda ,   Indiana   (09.21.06)
Giving up Sheba Farms is a big mistake. Land for peace hasn't worked in the past, just what makes everyone think it will work now. To give up the land for the return of the soldiers is just as bad. Since no word of the soldiers condition is forthcoming and even the Red Cross can't get in to see them, what or why do you even think they still live. I wouldn't trust anyone in Islam, It's in their religion, it's okay to lie and everyword from their mouths is a lie. No, don't give up Shaba Farms.
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