He admits that everything he did was wrong and resulted in the opposite of what was planned, but wants continue with more of the same. Oh and, Abbas doesn't recognize the right of Israel to exist any more than Hamas, but you already know that.

"the Israeli government's and Knesset's authority to renounce parts of our native land even in exchange for peace agreements." How about IN EXCHANGE FOR NOTHING, wise guy? Why don't you and Yossi Beilin give away your luxurious villas and go live in France?

What excuses will you have then Mr. defeatist/peacenick/Peace Never Colonel in the IDF?

Dear General, you obviously flunked the course on tactical depth and strategic advantage. However reading the final sentence in this long rant I fully understand where you are coming from and who your paymasters are. MY dear Sir, I respectfully suggest that you continue your studies in deductive logic for that which you have stated in my humble opinion is nothing more than rehashed "Garbage" which has been peddled about for the past 40 years. Here are a few Fatcs which you seem to ignore. 1) There will never ever be peace in the region as long as Jews want to be a free nation. 2) There will never be peace as long as so called generals such as yourself are given a platform to dispense with mindless blabber. 3) Ynet is just that platform. It shows in its pathetic attempt at being a News Service. 4) The mindless repetition of "THE ONLY SOLUTION IS A PAL STATE" is as bogus as the contemptible mumbling we heard in the 90's of "SACRIFICES FOR PEACE". 5) My only regret is that those sacrifices were not made by those who actively champion our capitulation and demise.

B"H My basic premise was that if there is a mixture of people living in an area, and some are attacking Israel and others are farming, then removing the farmers does not deal with those attacking Israel effectively. The removal of those peacefully farming can be viewed as support for those attacking Israel, which is a mixed message. It really does not matter whether the IDF is weak or strong. What maters is the message conveyed. The pen is mighter than the sword. The act of removing your supporters and placing the blame on their shoulders is a mixed message on whether Israel is committed to prosperity on the land. This is the basic problem to start with. If you want to say "I told you so" at least state what I told you properly.

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors." "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) 18 August 1988

Where are these peaceful Palestinians? Don't cite Abbas. A report came out, probably on this site, that an aide to Abbas said that he will never make peace but wants the same thing as Hamas, the elimination of Israel. The left is not principled, it is stupid.

You must have smoked too much hashish with Achmad abu ibn Charra!

the author is right, in his criticisms of the ideologically bent religious zionist community ready to sacrifice the rest of our lives for their 'land of israel' ideals. However we are not dealing with an enemy as sane as the author.

we can all pass judgment. God forbid Israelis are able to decide for themselves what is best for them. Ain't it grand when some jerk from Colorado tells an Israeli to leave his home for some perceived lack of...what...Israelisness? Because he has the temerity to criticize his fellow citizens? Beautiful! Good example of how extremists educate themselves...from a distance: fuzzy knowledge + fuzzy thinking + fuzzy logic + distance = fuzzy conclusions. (don't bother pointing out the irony of my distance also, I get it)

The author notes that Israel has failed to talk to the moderate Palestinians willing to recognize Israel. What he fails to note is that an overwhelming majority of Palestinians do not want to recognize Israel. This is exemplified simply in the landslide victory for Hamas and the support Hamas continues to enjoy. In contrast, Israelis keep hoping that the Palestinians will come around; voting Kadima and its band of losers. You need to look no further than the two elections immediately following the pullout to see where the two sides stand. What is the point to talking to these "moderate" Palestinians if they are the minority of the minority? How many times will Israel keep looking for an alternate partner before they look for an alternate solution? How many times will the cat reject the advances of the skunk before the skunk figures out that he is making a fool of himself and not increasing his chances with each attempt?

It is not an "ideal" to pursue the Jewish state. It is a Torah mandate! This land - ALL of Israel and that would be prior to 1967 - was given to the Jewish people by G-d and it is our duty to preserce it as such. Get used to it or get another religion. Better yet - get out!

Tipton, while Kyle hardly needs me to defend him, I should point out that with all of your fuzzy X + fuzzy Y + .... you say precisely nothing about the substance of Kyle's responses. Anyway, I doubt anyone would complain about Arieli's lack of "Israeliness," but many would complain about his lack of Jewishness. Personally, I just think he's a scoundrel funded by the EU. Those who have not been lobotomized might benefit from listening to the Jay Shapiro hour, where he discusses "experts" like Arieli. http://www.israelnationalradio.com/Asx/Jay.asx

you dont contribute with any ideas just insults I wonder why all these leftists like shaul arieli keep explaining and excusing themselves pangs of conscience ???? humm btw, better to love Israel from afar than hate it from within bye

A reserve colonel in the IDF can't figure out that you don't give your homeland to your enemy? That you don't placate and appease your enemy? Especially when that enemy wants to destroy your country and votes a terrorist organization into power to lead it to victory over us? Shaul, you are truly an idiot.

Please stop embarrassing the rest of the Jewish community with your primitive notion that somehow G-d gave the land of Israel to the Jews. Your theocratic arguments make us look just as crazy as the Islamic extremists hell-bent on our destruction. The fact is, the 6mm Jews now living in Israel have a political and moral right to live there in peace and to govern themselves in peace. Religious mandates have nothing to do with it, you loony. People like you do absolutely nothing for Israel except to make matters worse (remember who murdered Yitzhak Rabin?). We wish you'd just shut up and stop making the peace process more painful than it already is. The Palestinians have a right to self-governance. Mr. Arieli and many other moderates are able to recognize this. Israel must lead by example, with ever an open mind to peace with its neighbors. This does not in any way trivialize how difficult such an approach might be, given the open hostility of the Arabs and their reluctance to accept Israel's right to exist, but it is unfortunately the only option. Israel will never be secure until its neighbors in the region recognize its right to exist. But using a religious pretext to justify this right only makes matters worse.

From tonight's Ynet: Fresh from claiming in a meeting last week with US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that he will demand Hamas recognize the existence of Israel, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said in an Arabic-language interview neither Hamas nor his own Fatah party is required to recognize the Jewish state. And this is the guy that Arieli wants to negotiate with.

~"You must internalize the fact that we cannot convince the Arabs to voluntarily join the Zionist movement. Yet we can make sure they accept us and our existence as a fact in the Middle East. This can be done through military supremacy - not eroded in roadblocks and permit examinations - that constitutes an essential condition for the State of Israel's existence, but also through the establishment of an independent Palestinian state through an agreement, which constitutes an essential condition for Israel remaining a Jewish, democratic state." And this man is your 'Peace Partner'! http://www.landofisrael.info/News/2003/3/17/1.html The Grand Mufti and the Palestinian Genocide of the Jews: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nnbmVtZ0QY&mode=related&search= Amin Al Husseini: http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/amin_en.html Now I get it!! You want Suicide! Well their willing to see that you get it!

When we speak of abandonning territories, there are two types 1) "We left Gaza because we were too weak to demographically beat..." a) The number of Gazans dont explain abandonning the Gaza Egypt border to massive import of weapons by those we should be "talking to" b) There was no demographic problem inside the settlements, all you had to do was protect them. 2) "We left because we were too weak to diplomatically defeat all UN and international law decisions ruling that Gaza is an occupied zone" a) Your logic is wanting, if Gaza is an occupied zone, than Israel has the right to occupy it, especially if their is no agreement to stop fighting by the occupied party. b) The official position was that Disengagement was a military move to save soldier lives, not a diplomatic one. c) It doesnt explain the full scale abandonment of the Gaza Egypt border. A border with rights to international trade (including arms trade) is a right held by a sovereign country, not a people that is still at war with its conqueror. d) Diplomatic weakness comes from weak diplomats like yourself who dont know the law nor how to represent your country. This problem is still manifest in the govt. with Livni's inability to represent the Israeli position in the US or at the UN, or their inability to stand up to international pressure to support its own troops in the field. "We left because we were too weak morally to maintain a regime of separation between the two populations living in that same occupied territory." What is the moral problem in preventing vicious attacks from armed predators on farming communities. "We left because the IDF was too weak to carry the burden of this impossible security, diplomatic, demographic and moral reality forced on it" The IDF is not too weak to protect its civilians if given the right to do so. It is only too weak when you tie its hands to operate with all your self hating despair you show in all your diplomatic and media outlets

The official position of the disengagement, was that since their is no peace partner, so the State of Israel must do unilateral moves for its own benefit. Yet you say they did this because of "weakness" Every weakness argument you make is an hallucination, which has no place in the diplomatic nor the jounalistic arena. 1) "We left Gaza because we were too weak to demographically beat..." a) The number of Gazans dont explain abandonning the Gaza Egypt border to massive import of weapons by those we should be "talking to" b) There was no demographic problem inside the settlements, all you had to do was protect them. 2) "We left because we were too weak to diplomatically defeat all UN and international law decisions ruling that Gaza is an occupied zone" a) Your logic is wanting, if Gaza is an occupied zone, than Israel has the right to occupy it, especially if their is no agreement to stop fighting by the occupied party. b) The official position was that Disengagement was a military move to save soldier lives, not a diplomatic one. c) It doesnt explain the full scale abandonment of the Gaza Egypt border. A border with rights to international trade (including arms trade) is a right held by a sovereign country, not a people that is still at war with its conqueror. d) Diplomatic weakness comes from weak diplomats like yourself who dont know the law nor how to represent your country. This problem is still manifest in the govt. with Livni's inability to represent the Israeli position in the US or at the UN, or their inability to stand up to international pressure to support its own troops in the field. "We left because we were too weak morally to maintain a regime of separation between the two populations living in that same occupied territory." What is the moral problem in preventing vicious attacks from armed predators on farming communities. "We left because the IDF was too weak to carry the burden of this impossible security, diplomatic, demographic and moral reality forced on it" The IDF is not too weak to protect its civilians if given the right to do so. It is only too weak when you tie its hands to operate with all your self hating despair you show in all your diplomatic and media outlets

Disengagement was never about peace, it was about surviving. Leaving Gaza was good because it improved Israel's demographic position, and removed a huge burden on the army. That doesn't mean Gaza is still a burden or that the demographic threat is removed. The war goes on. Sharon understood that peace was a dream, a false dream which if persued will lead Israel to the path of disaster. Yet the occupation must end. So he evacuated Gaza knowing that the Palestinians would screw up in an everlasting reminder what 'peace' wil look like. The right doesn't understand this motive, it doesn't realize leaving Gaza probably saved Israel from a repetition of the Oslo deception. Any retreat now will be done under the full understanding that the enemy is still an enemy. Thus Israel will be better prepaired and won't believe false promises. That is the legecy of Sharon, that is why he disengaged from Gaza. Not for peace, but for survival.

The original sin was the settlers’ movement. Their attitude of disregard for the law, their arrogance, racism and violence did not help either. The fact of the matter is their presence in the west bank and Gaza did nothing to improve the security or quality of life of Israelis. One doesn’t have to be an expert to realise the catastrophe the settlers have brought. Given the chance to move the clock back and with the benefit of hindsight most Israelis would no doubt choose not to go through this adventure again. Mistakes have to be corrected, despite the price because not correcting them would be even costlier. That’s what we teach our children and if Israelis want to give their children a better life they should continue correcting that mistake.

People who can't logically argue any points I bring up attack my screen name. Wow, that's so mature. Not. Who says I live in Colorado? It's just a name of a cartoon character. You don't know where I live or what I do. Maybe I live in Safed, and had to spend the summer in a shelter. Maybe I am a chayal boded in the nahal hareidi. Maybe I am a parent of a large family, working 2 jobs to support them. Such people exist too and their opinions are just as valid as the opinions of the "Peace Not" proven multiple times LOSERS like Yossi Beilin, Shimon Peres and their lickspittle entourage.

Answereing all your nonsense is a full time job.

Ian says implies that the settler movement is based on disregard of law, arrogance, racism and violence. First of all, the GOVERNMENT MANDATED those settlement communities and funded them. The industry built up there became one of the two bread baskets of the nation, as well as a significant source of export income. As for racism, the Jewish communities actually had pretty decent relations with the Arabs who were EMPLOYED by them as well as their families. The good relations did NOT extend into the communities of Gaza City and Khan Younis, etc, since those have been the hotbed communities for extremist and violent Islamic militias (and still are). I do not know of a SINGLE incident of where any Jew in Gaza killed an arab because of ethic identity. I DO, however know of MANY incidents where Jews had to defend themselves using lethal force against Arabs trying to kill JEWS because we're JEWS. I am sure you know arabs in London who complain about the evil Israelis. I suggest you live with them sometime, preferably in Gaza or Hebron. Ian, you just DO NOT get the arab mentality - either that or you have bought into their propaganda.

Rhetorical Aki-Jitsu: the tactic of a man who doesn't have a cogent, coherent argument of his own. What's more, this entire article is predicated on a straw-man, and uses veiled ad hominem attacks (appeals to prejudice and innuendo) to advance its otherwise unsustainable premise.

Settlers are not law abiding citizens Avraham and you should know that. They behave in the west bank like Billy the kid in the wild west. Baruch Goldstein killed Arabs because he was racist. Finaly, why do you keep comparing the settlers to the Arabs? Why don't you compare them to law abiding citizens of Israel who are paying for their keep. Oh,I think you know that comment about a bread basket is a lot of nonsense.

Ian's "logic:" "Goldstein makes all Jewish residents of Judea and Samaria terrorists and extremists who must all be collectively punished but Hamas does NOT make Palestinians terrorists and extremists who should be resisted" How sick is that?