Opinion  Soapbox
Gay parade, haredim and forced holiness
David Verveer
Published: 20.10.06, 23:40
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58 Talkbacks for this article
1. bravissimo!
Harissa ,   Israel   (10.21.06)
2. gay parade
zarnaldo ,   rio,brazil   (10.21.06)
i agree,in gender,number and degree with your opiniom zarnaldo
3. With respect- may we, with Gods help take on your opinion
marilyn   (10.21.06)
Freedom of speech is a wonderful privilege and you are just voicing a point of view. But I would love to take you on. The answer to so many of these types of musings are in the scriptures . For example God tells us the 'heart is treacherous' also 'one trusting in his heart is stupid' So that informs us that our feelings can be wrong surprise surprise. 'but the one trusting in God will be protected' I have heard the argument that people are born that way, and that this is a genetic problem, but isn't that what 'sin' is; a genetic problem inherited from Adam and Eve?And 'the inclination of mans thoughts were bad'? Every action comes from our thought life. And what about the scripture that states " God is the One telling man what his mentel concern is " The problem with your argument is you want humans to set the boundaries, but we have learned painfully not to trust mans reasonings because he will only justify himself.
4. gays
jj ,   montreal canada   (10.21.06)
Its not the attire that makes a person, it is their behavior and actions. The gays are not disliked but their behavior is. It is not the way G-d made you, it is how you chose to be. The way haredim are dressed is at least modest, the way gay dress in the parade is obscene by anyones standerd.
5. "created different"....
Josh   (10.21.06)
Whhhhat! Stop with the "born gay" propaganda. Are the "gays" so ashamed of their lifestyle they must blame it on G-d? Stop already! This is about C H O I C E...not chance.
6. Great Article
Aharon   (10.21.06)
I agree 100%. This march is stupid and provocative, and will not further they gay cause (Whatever that might be). They are showing just as much intolerance as the haredim to whom they are trying to make their point. Having said that, it is their right to excercise freedom of speech, and they should be supported if this is what they (fooloshly) desire.
7. smart jews DONT BECOME GAYS
REUVEN ,   USA   (10.21.06)
ALOT OF PAIN IN ASS.AND NO CHILDREN TO SAY KADISH OVER YOU
8. duhhh.........
Yosef ,   New York   (10.21.06)
because the dress and conduct of the religious do not make a mockery of torah law and the holiness of jerusalem. The torah homsexual acts, and most of the "free expression" that would be seen in this parade of shame. dressing immodestly and wearing the opposite sex's clothing are against hashems law. Look it comes down to people who commit homsexual acts (no such thing asa "gay" person in the world) are sinners like everyone else they need hashems love and need torah to guide their lives. the problem is when people say that these kind of actions are normal and natural and that their not sins at all. this kind of thought brings damage to the jewish nation and the entire world. when people try to stand up in the holy city and proudly declare hashems law is bogus and outdated the entire nation must stand up and say no way. its not a group of people that is the enemy, it is a destructive way of thinking that is the enemy. Sin is Sin. Truth is truth.
9. The Ayatollahs are in control of Jerusalem
The reformator ,   Haifa, Israel   (10.21.06)
I was always intrigued by the facts that a bunch of fanatics dressed in eastern European medieval attire claim to be the real thing. They don't look, act, or smell like the real Jews of the second temple period or before. Who died and left those funny creatures in charge of Judaism.
10. This is what you consider a headline news story?
Moshe ,   Jerusalem   (10.21.06)
Isnt there enough going on that we shouldnt be bothered by homosexual interest stories all the time?
11. and Olmert said everything fine at home front loool
fadi ,   lebanon   (10.21.06)
12. Suggestion:
Uzi ,   Haifa   (10.21.06)
Gays should dress and behave like haredim, to get accepted, make their point and create some clean fun.
13. Holiness versus depravity
Gordon Shifman ,   Shoham, Israel   (10.21.06)
The haredim, whatever their quirks, aspire to the admistable virtue holiness. But with the support of liberal fascists, "gay"s make a virtue of depravity.
14. To No. 5, Josh
NYC Girl   (10.21.06)
I'm sorry, but you're totally misinformed. Being gay is not a choice, rather it's a biological fact. Read the studies that have been done. And even if you're disinclined to do so, just ask yourself one question. Considering the amount of enmity that's directed toward them, who the hell in their right mind would CHOOSE to be gay?
15. Gay parade, haredim and forced holiness
Michael ,   Caldwell, USA   (10.21.06)
Congratulations! You will soon learn whether G-D is !
16. Here's the reason for the parade:
Chuck Anziulewicz ,   West Virginia, USA   (10.21.06)
I hear this sort of question all the time: "Why do those people need to have a parade based on who they have sex with?" In reality there's a LOT more to it than that. The better questions to ask are: Why do people get fired from their jobs because of who they are in a relationship with? Why are people deemed to be unfit parents because they call themselves "Gay?" Why are people prohibited from marrying the person they want to pledge their love and support and faithfulness to? If Gay and Straight people were indeed treated equally under the law, there would be no need for marches and political movements. But that is NOT the case, certainly not here in the United States, supposedly the Land of Freedom.
17. This is not about approval
Steve G ,   Kew Gardens,NYC   (10.21.06)
Such things as a gay parade are not about approving of what the participants do. It's whether a society tolerates and respects other people's choices of how they live. For instance, I have no wish to follow a haredi life style, but that does not diminish my respect for their lives. The same goes for gay people. If a democratic society is to live, everyone must be afforded the same rights to live a peaceful life and participate in everyday activities . . . even if you disagree with them.
18. Quite obvious
Jacob Field ,   USA   (10.21.06)
David Verveer, the answer is very simple. The haredim dress differently - quite true - but their focus is on God. Gays dress differently - quite true - but their focus is penises. What part of that don't you understand?
19. gay parade
Charles ,   petach tikva   (10.21.06)
Some of the talkbacks refer to the religion and so on , to defend their opinion . Thats their opinion , fine . But there are many NON believers , they think otherwise . They do'nt need the 10 commandements for not assassinating or stealing . So let them live their way . Heterosexuals also show their way of life when they are kissing each other in parks , on the beach etc. I'm not gay , and do not follow the hallachic rules .
20. to #7
charles ,   petach tikva   (10.21.06)
How do you know that they have "pain in ass" , did you had an experience ? There are very smart gay people , even becoming high level politicians , writers and scientists
21. mosty correct article - but the impression left on children?
redmike ,   tel aviv & london   (10.21.06)
one of my daughters was gay for a while and is now married with wonderful children. I always loved her but said 'the whole idea of a gay (Good As You) parades is foolish.’ Just get on with your life and keep your sex life private just as heterosexuals do’. ‘They don't parade their heterosexuality’. 2 gays raising a child is a catastrophe and the children grow up completely confused. 'Mummy mummy, what's a lesbian'. 'keep quiet and ask your father when she gets home'. So - gays, have fun between the sheets but please don't raise children - regards, Michael
22. Gay Pride, Not Immodest
John ,   Maaleh Adumim,Israel   (10.21.06)
I was at Gay Pride 2005 in Jerusalem. With very few exceptions, the participants are not dressed particularly immodestly (no more immodestly than the average secular person). I think there is an awareness by the participants to keep it lower-key that the Gay Pride marches in other places, like Tel-Aviv. My girlfriend is bisexual and she says she can't go to the one in Tel-Aviv, it's too wild, but the one in Jerusalem is much more mellow.
23. Parade and God's wrath
Brod ,   USA   (10.21.06)
At a time when Israel is facing an existential threat from the dark forces, Israel needs GOD's protection more than ever. Israel should not allow a Parade that is an abomination to GOD. Flaunting pride and sin before GOD and men will bring GOD's wrath, that is, the withdrawal of GOD's protection on Israel. Ancient Isrealites who turned away from their GOD suffered the absence of GOD's protection when foreign invaders conquered and dispersed them from their homeland. Modern Israel should turn to their GOD at all times for protection from external threats and challenges.
24. #7 - you moron, its a wonderful life, Gay or not.
Andy ,   ramat hasharon   (10.21.06)
and I have 2 wonderful children.
25. #21 - Hetrosexuals parade their sexuality every single day..
Andy ,   ramat hasharon   (10.21.06)
what rock are you under?
26. #22 is right - I never saw anybody 1/2 dressed at any.....
Andy ,   ramat hasharon   (10.21.06)
Jerusalem pride....its a bullshit argument. We are as modest and normal looking as anybody in streets of Jerusalem - even if Ynet keeps publishing picures of 1/2 naked men. Belive me, if there were people dressed like that, I and my partner of 12 years would have noticed.
27. Call religious Zealots? Filled with hate you are.
David Rappela   (10.21.06)
Firstly, the writers attitude towards religious is more hatefilled then most Religious Jews attitudes towards gay people. Frankly I am disgusted that someone who is seeking approval or respect from the public would be so blindly stereotypical and hypocritical towards the Religious. Secondly, the gay parade goes on every year in Tel Aviv and other cities, why on earth do you feel you should have to intergect your mindset and beliefs on those in a area that is known to be conservative and religious. The only reason is hatred. You want to prove a point. It is sad and very wrong. I would like to see your movememnt hold a gay parade in Mecca, you would not even think about it for fear of death but to hold it in Jerusalem that is another thing for you, since it is only stupid Jewish zealots that truly you really do not fear. Very sad. I would expect a member of minority sexual oriented group (homosexuals) to be sensetive and more open minded towards other people and there beliefs. Sad how the Israeli educational system has tainted your mind and instilled hatred towards a fellow Jew in your heart. I think a trip to Yad Vashem or perhaps visiting the camps in Poland might help you become a bit more open minded towards your fellow Jews. At this point I just see hypocrite written all over your body. P.S I am not religious and I am gay and I am ashamed at your article and ashamed at your hatred against religious.
28. consideration
eliezer ,   Jerusalem   (10.21.06)
to come to Jerusalem where there is a lot of religious sentements and do something totally against the feeling of the majortity of the poputlation is very inconsiderate. just saying the islam is violent and the muslims are willing to kill, if the pope is careful not to offend, cant jews be carefull also??
29. #27 - your post is really unbelievable...
Andy ,   ramat hasharon   (10.21.06)
its not about hatred -- but Jerusalem is our capitol city too. We love it and we are entitled to assemple peacably and respectfully. Nobody is immodest. Nobody is disrepecful. We don't go to the temple mount or in religous areas. Its a big enough city to meet all of our needs. Nobody has to attend - either -- if the sight of gay people offends, then stay home for a couple of hours - or at least go somewhere else than downtown. Take in a video. Read. Pray. Study. But we have a right to assemble in our beloved Jerusalem. Where are you getting all this hatred of haredim BS? I don't hate any religious person - only I am unwilling to let religious people tell me and my community that I can't assemble in Jerusalem. And also your suggestion that we should visit holocuast cites is simply disgusting. My family was killed in Europe too - aunts, uncles and cousins. And plenty of gay people were murdered by the Nazis. As to your comparison with Mecca - good point. We are different than the muslims - becuase we have diversity and tolerance in the democratic free State of Israel, thank God. May it always be so.
30. What are you talking about???
Yosef ,   Jerusalem   (10.21.06)
the very idea that the author of this article would use such a childish example as if to say that being gay and dressing like a male stripper on the street is comparable to dressing ultra orthadox is totaly lost on me! the very idea of it is outrageous! while one sect of society preaches moddesty they are looked down on b/c of thier moddest dress? it makes no sense! the way none religious people dress in general is not undersatndable! if a women does not want to be treated a certain way then way does she dress with no respect for herself and show as much of her body for nothing? dont none religious people want to respect them selfs too? the society we live in has such messed up values that to dress modestly is looked at as something outlandish & outdated, have some self respect and put some cloths on! its cold outside
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