The centre-left and the centre-right make up the bulk of the electorate in Israel and on the issues that need resolving (Jerusalem, refugees,boundaries etc) they could probably reach a consensus if peace seemed doable. The issue is less clear among Palestinians. Those willing to reach a deal are fixated on the 1967 borders and the Right of Return of refugees as if these were commandments from the Koran (which they are not). A deal would be possible if they were flexible and not so hung-up on one solution..

THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR ALL OUT VICTORY,PERIOD.DIPLOMACY OF DEATH AND DESTRUCTION,40 YEARS OF RESOLUTIONS,TRUCES,CEASEFIRES,NOTHING BUT MORE VIOLENCE AND DEATH..TOTAL VICTORY OR THE GRADUAL ANNAHILATION OF ISRAEL.

Are There Any Moderate Muslims in the World? One group of Muslim people, currently attempting to attract Middle Eastern Muslims to a reformed version of Islam. In effect, they are trying to return Islam to a non politicized form. Article: http://www.kingscalendar.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?action=viewnews&id=478

All this breathless and less-than-coherent verbiage basically boils down to three words: YOU'RE BOTH WRONG! But does David Young have a plan? No, he is just babbling. Just so I don't get accused of "name-calling" "guilt by association" and "messenger killing" in this forum, I suggest everyone Google "Israel Policy Forum."

What the hell is David Young talking about when he accuses Israeli hawks of oppression? How many border crossings would be difficult for Palestinians to cross if terrorism stopped? Remember, If terrorism stopped, the Palestinians would have their own State and hopefully become prosperous. On the other hand, if the Palestinians get their own State, terrorism would continue. The real truth is that the oppression of the Palestinians is self-inflicted. Brainwahed into becoming violent murderers by their own leaders and kept poor by their leaders" corruption and buying arms to kill Israelis and each other, the Palestinians have no one to blame for their misery. In fact, the mainstream rightists in Israel and the US have been right all along. They knew Arafat was a terrorist and they know that Abbas would make no effort to stop terror. They also warned of unilateral withdrawals from Lebanon and Gaza as leading to threats against Israeli security. Exactly when have the doves been right?

David ; problem is that you seem to be unaware of one simple fact, that Israel doesnt want peace !! If Israel realy wanted peace, they would'nt strengthen Hamas against Abu Mazen, Israel has exerted every single effort to strengthen Hamas in order to expand the conlict between Hamas and Fatah. Israel and the US, can easily influence Syria to push Hamas moderate, but never did a serious step to do that. On the other side, Israel has never accepted to withdraw back to the 1967 boarders ! even never as a conditional acceptance !!! the Y reviver proposal was a complet piece of shit (sorry) but that is the truth, Israel wanted to give only parts of the west bank with may be more than 100 exceptions, but the propaganda was that Israel has offer 98% of the west bank and Gaza, but thats rabish, wasnt true at all.. Re the Gaza withdrawal; the Israelis can not keep claiming that they tried Gaza and that it failed and so learned a hard lesson from withdrawing from Gaza ; My freind ; Gaza is nothing but a big jail ; and life before the Israelis went out from their was much better for Gazians, and remember, u can not split Gaza from west bank, they are one entity and the major problem is not with Gaza, its with the west bank. And please be sure that Israel has offered Gaza to Egypt many many times, but Egypt refused, even Israel, was prepared to throw Gaza into the sea if it could !!! Look, I have allo to say here, but I can tell one sad fact my friend ;; Israel lost the oppurtunity to make real peace with the Palestinians after Yetshaq Rabin was killed.. And sadly, Hamas is now in power becasue Isarel wanted Hamas in power becasue they have screwed Abu Mazen and gave him nothing, and Hamas will continue to expand and get bigger and more powerfull, and beleive me, Israel will suffer more and will cry on Arafat's days and Abu Mazen's one.. You gusy think Abu Mazen has a magic stik, and that he can screw Hamas whenever he wants ; well I live in the west bank and I see adn feel the IDF activities their, why the IDF could get rid of Hamas ??? why?? You are a nuke state and couldnt get rid of Hams, how do you expect that Abu Mazen to do so while he doesn ahve 1/million from the IDF military power !!?? what the hell we are talking about !!!?! Yes, Israel hs humilated the Palestinains and doing this every single day, and at the end of the day you ask the Palestians for peace !?!? how ?? Ofcourse the Palestinains have ellected Hamas because Abu Mazen did nt get anything !! I can tell something, now, if Abu Mazen go with a race with Hamas chief Khalid Masha, Hamas will win the race again !! Isarel will pay a heavy price for that !! no doubt !! Isarel can support Abu Mazen if they left the road blocs and the stop the dail humilation of the Palestinian people, dont tell me Israel security !! Isarel can still fight Hamsa and Jihad without the road blocks if really they have the good well, but Isarel doesnt have the good well, Isarel can release at 5000 prinsoners out of 10000 because I cna assure u that u have over than 5000 cases as light cases and doesb justufy to keep those people in prison, Israel can support Abu MAzen by facilitating the boarders check points with Jordan , Im not saying to compromize the security issues, but come and travel with me to Jordan and u will see what difficulties we face at the passport check !! They just tell ask u to set 3 or 4 hours and then give u the passpport after that, withput one single question after that !!! man, you Israelis, dont understand !!! Im sorry to say that !!

Why do you guys keep attacking Israel. It is you guys who dont want peace. Your leaders know - You Arabs have weak management. Cannot manage your own people. So point fingers at others for your own incompetency. Also, World believes that Koranic teachings of hating Jews, all other religions is responsible for this. Please come out of Ancient thinking, and try to be Humans. Israelis built road, hospitals, schools. You guys teach Jihad to very young children who are very young and need good teaching. When you lost war, 1967, all was very quiet for few years. Again, it started! To win emotional feelings - You portray photos of children killed, who are infact killed many times by fellow Palestinians.!! There are some solid proofs produced by Israel. Do your Muslims brothers really worry about you. Why Saudia Arabia not help you. BECAUSE You are already Muslims. If they had to convert you - they would have poured their money. Finally to make you slaves of Saudia rulers. But they want you to be Unhappy, frustated, be ready to kill yourself, and a few Jews alongwith. Your situation is not good. But be truthful to yourself, tell other Arabs, what you feel about them, and see - they will be forced to help you.

To be an analyst should require going beyond simplistic generalizations and adhominem attacks. Anyone who groups Halutz and Netanyahu together certainly fails that test.. The Left has created a marketed term "occupation" and has let that spin control their politics. They of course do not take the logic of their slogans to places like Ramat Aviv (built on land Arabs were expelled from in '48) but instead apply it to Jewish places like Hebron and Beit El. Only with those who stll believe that the Land of Israel for the people of Israel does the flame of Zionism still burn.

if there were not Muslems in Europe during the christain Eurepoean were trying to exterimate the Jews in Europe , there will be no Jews today or Israel state, Muslems alweys protect the jew people .

It's Not A Territorial Struggle Harvard U. Prof Ruth Wisse 20 June 2003 http://www.netanyahu.org/itsnotterstr.html

"Muslems alweys protect the jew people " http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com

Between 1948 and 1967 the Palestinians were not controled by Israel in any way and they did not once call for a palestinian state. Article 24 of the PLO charter even gives up the right. They were not even called the Palestinians until the 60's and were either Syrian, Jordanian or Egyptian. The PLO started in 1964 3 years before Israel won the land back in a defensive war. Therefore the land is not occupied but disputed and part of the league of nations mandate for a Jewish state and the Pals started a liberation org before 1967 showing they want the whole country. They don't even hide it and when Arafat signed the Oslo Accord he was wearing a unifrm with the embelem of the PLO sadly it includes the whole of Israel on it. Sameer Ali firstly you can't blame your problems on Israel forever eventually you will have to try and solve your own internal problems. If you remember the roadblocks only went up in 2000/2001 when your leader said no to peace and didn't even try to negotiate and your people began attacking Israel throughout the country. I should say the same about being checked everytime i go into a mall, coffee shop, bar, any store really. Why can an arab walk around a jewish city with Nearly no worry of being attacked but if a jew goes to an arab city chances are he won't come out alive. Israel also offered the west bank back to Jordan but was turned down. The only thing Jordan accepted was the temple Mount. There was never a Pal state, Jerusalem has nothing to do with Palestinians even according to res242, if anything Jordan is illegally occupying land designated for a Jewish state as early as 1910's and under the British Mandate it was illegal for Britain to give any part of the land to a third power (Jordan) according to the League of Nations. Israel is kind enough to offer the pals a state on Israeli land take what you can before its too late.

The usual: a Palestinian will always blame Israel for his own failures.

'Running out of ideas is not the worst thing that can happen to us. Just acknowledge it and move on'. The above is the summation of a supposedly serious article ? 'After you've run out of ideas, just move on' . He gets paid for coming out with statements like that ?!

Let's assume that every Palestinian feels the way you say they do. On this I can consider you, a Palestinian, an expert. But who are you to say what Israelis think and what their motivations are? About this, what you write proves you know nothing and are merely speculating. No, not speculating, inventing tendentiously to support your view of Palestinians as victims of Israelis, rather than victims of themselves. My advice to you is to keep your views of Israelis if you wish, and your views of Palestinians. But if what you wish is to shake off the yoke you feel "occupation" gives you, then take it into your own hands either to once and for all defeat Israel, which I hope you realize is not only impossible but personally fatal, or to turn your attention to the leaders and vandals amongst you who poison the well of peace time after time after time. Stop blaming Israelis for your own problems and faults. Yes, it's possible to hate your enemy and think all kinds of bad things about them, but FOR YOUR OWN SAKE to strike a deal that allows your enemy and you to survive opposite each other peacefully. Oh, and another thing - stop with the myth that what Barak offered Palestinains was meaningless. It's wrong on several counts. First, if you thought that 98% was an offer you could have accepted but didn't because Barak never made it, then why didn't Arafat make a counter offer for 98%? Second, the reason the offer was refused by Arafat was chiefly not because of 98% or any other issue associated with land. No, the land issues were mostly resolved. Rather, it was two terms that Barak insisted on - 1) that when the deal was signed, that there'd be no further claims against Israel by Palestinians and that the matters dividing them would be considered resolved. Arafat wanted to continue the war after the agreement, so he refused. 2) Arafat was unsatisfied that descendants of Arabs who left the area that would be left to israel after the agreement wouldn't be allowed to return to those areas en masse. For these "principled positions" of Arafat, Palestinians have been without a state that they could have had more than a half decade ago, with peace, with no roadblocks and "humiliation", with a roaring economy (Arafat was promised 31 billion USD from Clinton), with complete freedom of movement between Gaza and WB, etc. There was only one flaw in the entire peace agreement, and one alone - it entailed the continued existence of the State of Israel. Let's not mince words, Samir - the reason there's war between us is not because we humiliate you at checkpoints. The reason Hamas leads you is not because we undermine Abbas. It's because you Palestinians want to destroy the State of Israel, today no less than before 1967 when Israel did NOT occupy what you consider to be your territories.

The authour writes: Not even Lebanon - a fully autonomous state, infinitely farther ahead on every curve than Palestine - could be held accountable for Hizbullah's actions." forgetting that :Not even Lebanon - a fully autonomous state, infinitely farther ahead on every curve than Palestine - recognises the right of the State of Israel to exist and that its national support of suicide bombings is +72% according to a 2002 pew poll." Surely it is these two factors that have to change in order for us to achieve peace. Hmm? Stick a fork in those hawks n doves an turn em over - they're done

There is a good positive part of your writting about the misery of the palestinian people and why a part of them are doing wrong now as Hamas Leader who are making some bad calculation for some one else, but diffenitely not for the Arab. You jumped here and made the wrong extention like your self is antiArab for some reason. Let me tell you some thing about India: while I do respect all the Indian people all of them, and while this big democracy is going in great step, remember that the social living of your people isn't really good, you got to admit that. More over there a peace deal presented fermly by all the arab state clear, net ready to be executed if the other part agree for it. The israeli didn't decide yet about it since 2002, and a part of Palestinian are rejecting it. Bring bad Idea and bad propaganda against the arab people and state is a bad move mr Dr. and i am questinoning my self if you are really from India, or faked your name you make your point be consumed better. you have a lot of misery/poverty also look arround my Dear. Saying that and to be positive in my view, i think it is enough of wakning the arab state refusing their peace deal. for booth Palestinian and Israeli won't help. At this time there are confusing messages, you said Abbas is corrput wake and can do no thing, Hamas allowed to go to election won democratic election has been cut off to death there aren't much option left also: - when Hamas and abbas try to reconcille, you keep humiliating them by targetting other called Terrorsit - When Abbas and Hamas Disagree, you are kind of happy, and somhow worried of the instability - abbas alone or hamas is definitely refuse by you - left the other option, No Hamas no Abbas and the area will be jungle the Arabic state deal is great and should be taken seriousely instade of start attacking the arab state them self. there is a way out right there very close to you you just need to look for it. togother you can acheive a lot for your own people and the other people. last word to the Indian helper you did wrong my Friend, i don't hear of any heatress between indian and Arab and you are jumping from the sky to introduce the notion. is the cow God? it can be not umpossible as what we see people doing in the name of God, all togother no exception. with Regard

It doesn't matter if you're dovish or hawkish. As long as the Jews can not fight wars and win, as long as they can't mentally defeat the Arabs, the conflict will continue. Israel does NOT win wars. It only has ceasefires. " immensely complicated " - Gordian Knot you say? You need to learn how to cut. "When we speak of destroying the enemy's forces we must emphasize that nothing obliges us to limit this idea to physical forces: the moral element must also be considered."

Shai ; Thanks for a logn a response, however, you did not make any sense in ur explanation re Barak's offer... First, you dont know that Barak's proposal insisted to leave west bank hill tops with Isarel.. Israel didnt allow a secured path tawards Al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem AND the refugee issue, yes that needs to be resolved before we sign a closure deal with Isarel. Im sure we can find a solution for that, but you guys do not even want to withdraw from Ariel (a settlement in the depth of the west bank) and you are talking about the refugees issue, let us start by the simple things execute them and then move on to the more complicated issues like the refugees issue. But, you guys want to impose your solution on us and that we have to accept that, otherwise,. we are terrorists !!! All we are asking is 20% of the land, and even we can get that !!? You guys have built that fence in the depth of the west bank , what sort of peac u r seeking ?? Why you didnt build it on the green line boarders, we could then help u build that on the green line boarders? what is the idea behind building the fence deep inside the west bank?? its nothing but Israel hostility.. And by the way, Im not saying we , the Palestinians are perfect, we have allot of problems and bugs in mind specially with the extermists, but Israel is just feeding those extremist by undermining the moderate people like Abu Mazen.. We refuse to be a battle field for Syaria and Israel and for Iran and Israel and Hams and Jihad are the tool syria is using to fight Israel same as they are using Hizbuallah in Lebanon to fight Israel.. But with the collective punishment Isarel is doing against the Palestinian peopel, the more Hamas is gaining power.. You don know my friend, that over the past two decades, Fatah has always defeted Hamas in almost every election because Fatah has achieved something for the peopel of Palestine.. Now and after Fatah and Abu Mazen are becoming useless for the Palestinians, the people has ellected Hamas, NOT because they want to destroy Israel, it's because they are no more of beleivers in Fatah for many reasons including the feaked achievemnets they gained out of Oslo, and because of the internal corruption within Fatah.. Look, we are asking for 20% of the overall land !! why u dont give it out ?? Does that really worth you keeping that 20% and keep in a ware state with the Palestinians and the Arab world ?? See let me tell u this and Im really very honest to you ;; Do you really think that Israel would keep fighting the Arabs forever ?? Do you know that one day might come where all the Arab regeims will fall down and and that new regims will get on board to fight Israel ? A:Yes.. Do you think ur nuke weapons would protect you from hundreds of millions of arabs surrounding Isarel ?? A: No.. Do you think that the united states will continue supporting u for ever? A: NO. Then assuming we reach a peac a greement with Israel, we still have allot of work and many years to REALLY normalaize the relationship between Israelis and the Arabs, this is not so easy.. However, if you guys realy want to maintain the state of Israel and if you want to work on a better future for your the coming Israeli generations, you need to workout a fair peace deal with the Palestinians, and you know what's fair and what's not fair. but most important is that you guys be brave enough to acknowledge our legitimate rights in our land. All the responses Im getting are not dealing with core of the problem, its all "Palestinians wnats to destory Israel" , No my friends, we dont want to destroy Israel, we want our right to exist and as per to the UN resolutions 242, 338 and 194.. But in any case, I hope it;s not late for a peac settlement, but with the growing power of hamas, I very much doubt it !! And Israel holds the major responsibilty for empowering Hamas..

Look at a map of the original British Mandate for Palestine. Jordan occupies 80%. Israel has the remaining 20%. When you say you want "20%" what you really mean is that you want the 20% that Jordan doesn't have, in other words, ALL OF ISRAEL, JEWS FREE.

Forget about Jordan. Im, talking about the land in dispute between Israel and the Palestinians which if we say 100%, Israel is getting 80% of that and we are asking for 20% which represents the west bank and Gaza.. Got it my friend ??

Look at a map, dumbass.

None Sense, it seems you dont what's going on.. I know the current map and that is what matter for us now..

http://www.eyeontheun.org/view.asp?l=21&p=182

Ok, thats the map of the land Im refering to.. And What I mentioned is that we are asking for 20% of that land.. What's wrong with that? we accepted Israel on 80% and we sufice with 20% which represents west bank and Gaza, meaning the land that was occupied in 1967.. What the hell u r trying to say ?? are u living on the moon or what??

Try to keep up! http://www.acpr.org.il/English-Nativ/issue1/Abelson-1.htm http://www.acpr.org.il/English-Nativ/02-issue/grief-2.htm http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=7&x_article=185

What are you, retarded? That is the official Palestinian map, issued by the official Palestinian government. It shows 100% of the land for the Arabs and 0% of the land for the Jews. You already have 80% (Jordan) and the 20% you keep insisting on consists of 100% of Israel. So cut the crap.

Yes I will cut, but not the crap, it's your foolish head... everybody knows what Im refering to except u, because you dont know what the hell we are talking about.. You are setting in the US and knows shit about the crises here, so you better come and visit here then we can talk, otherwsie, dont miss around with me coz I have inoformation more than you and the entier US knows about the crises here.. take care