Jewish Scene
Rabbi: Reforms worse than Muslims
Neta Sela
Published: 25.10.06, 01:16
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1. Remember Folks, Ynet Has An Agenda, BEWARE
(10.25.06)
They use twist translations, fake articles, and any way to make what any Rabbi says as pure evil. They have a agenda, beware.
2. reform
gabriela ben ari ,   jerusalem   (10.25.06)
Im no great fan of the reform movement but i'm not sure banning orthodox jews to attend a kosher family wedding there, is going to acheive much. Sinat hinam is no great mitzva either
3. Oh brother!
Gav ,   USA   (10.25.06)
I pretty much feel the exact opposite. I never step in foot in their (orthodox) shuls or consider their (orthodox) conversions valid. They are idol worshipers in my view, worshiping foriegn scripture (talmud) and men (rabbis).
4. Kol Hakavod
Avi Ben-Zvi ,   Tel Aviv   (10.25.06)
Rabbi Lior is totally correct on this one. Reform Jews, though mostly made up of confused and lost Jews, represent easily our worst enemy - that which wishes to destroy us slowly and neatly by feeding on the lack of education and ignorance of our many galut Jews. As an Oleh here, I can honestly say that the reform community is our greatest evil inclination
5. Israeli
george ,   beirut   (10.25.06)
Who does this freak think he is? As far as I know, religious men show tolerance to other religions, especially if its a monotheistic religion such as Islam. Says alot about his "attitude" when he looks down upon his co-religionists. Snob, Bigot, Racist....in fact an easier word would be: Israeli.
6. This is sad
Brent Legum Levenson ,   washington, dc   (10.25.06)
This whole situation/article is very upsetting to me. I have never believed that someone can be more Jewish than someone else. One may be more observant than others, but you're either Jewish or you're not. We need to be united as one despite our differences. We can not tear eachother down. Reform Jews are not fakers, I can tell you that much. My Bar Mitzvah wasn't fake, nor was my torah study. The time I spent at Hebrew school wasn't fake. My observance of Shabbat every week isn't fake. My current (and lifelong) study of the Torah and the Talmud isn't fake, either. People have different levels of observance, but we are all Jews, and we should remain united.
7. Yehudi lo Megaresh Yehudi
(10.25.06)
As the sreligious settlers said, "A Jew does not abandone a Jew." Disgraceful
8. "Worse than Muslims"
Dan ,   Australia   (10.25.06)
Clearly this guy is an idiot...Rabbi or no Rabbi. You don't see "Reform" Jews blowing up buses or cafes.
9. Hostility and Stupidity
Jerry ,   Eilat   (10.25.06)
A study announced yesterday indicated that just 14% of Israeli students have any real comprehension of American Judaism. And the percent is probably is far lower among Israel’s rabbis. America is the only large concentration of Jews outside of Israel, reform Jews are a plurality of American Jews and America is Israel's only dependable ally. The blind hate this rabbi shows demonstrates the hostility to other Jews that destroyed us the last time we had a nation. Rabbis need knowledge, understanding and compassion in their judgments. These are among the attributes we ascribe to G-d. And when rabbis fail to demonstrate them in their remarks they are the truly sacrilegious.
10. orthodox rabbis
joe ,   israel   (10.25.06)
DISGUSTING what he has to say.
11. I agree and I'm not Orthodox
Carrie   (10.25.06)
12. Erev Rav strikes again
Shiloh David ,   Israel   (10.25.06)
I certainly do not agree with reform practice, but I sure won't turn my back on reform Jews either. The world has enough hatred, we don't need to add to it. I understand why most Jews stay away from Orthodoxy!!!!!
13. Rabbi: Reforms worse than Muslims
Patrick B. Leek ,   Bexley, Ohio U.S.A.   (10.25.06)
To me the saddest thing about Judaism is the 'us against them' attitude that pops up every so often. How can we be a light among nations if we can't stand together Chasidics, Orthodox, Conservative and Reformed respecting our differences?
14. lies
avi ,   nyc   (10.25.06)
any rabbi that says this is not a rabbi. jews are jews no matter what and they deserve some respect.as an orthodox jew i do not agree with what the reform do,but i give them some respect and would attend a bar or bat mitzva in any shul of any jew
15. oy vey...what next? Absolute kooks...
TG ,   USA   (10.25.06)
the whole lot of em! KOOKS!
16. You can Not Reform the Torah
Mark ,   USA   (10.25.06)
Reform Jews can not change the laws. Pigs will never be kosher!! Reform Judaism is liberal waterered down Judaism.
17. foolish rabbi lior, worse than khomeiyni
angry reuven ,   usa   (10.25.06)
this rabbi should learn in his foolish age that, you should not call any jews by bad names, moses did it and was punished for it.i am nota reform but i know for a factthat many milions of dollars are yearly donated to israel by reform jews and are given to jews such as the rabbi and his family.we have enough enemies outside , we dont need foolish rabbi like him to make foolish statement like this.from today i rule, he is no longer a rabbi.sof pasuk
18. The one true religion
mike ,   Chicago, USA   (10.25.06)
I am sure hassidim should not be visited. The worship the rebbe. I am sure zionists are not good either they worship this ideology. The Litvaks have no god, that clear. That leaves me and you and I am not sure about you.
19. They are running scared! Good! The Bigots
David ,   Marietta USA   (10.25.06)
These people are worse than arabs
20. Worse than muslims?
Arie ,   Afula   (10.25.06)
Only thing worse than a muslim is 2 muslims!
21. Disgusting
Zvi ,   USA   (10.25.06)
These Rabbi are entirely too full of themselves. Reform Jews don't spend their time worrying about whether their religion is legitimate in our eyes, any more than the Orthodox waste time worrying about whether Orthodoxy is legitimate in the eyes of other branches of Judaism. I am not a Reform Jew. However, I will attend the bar mitzvah of a Reform family member WITH PLEASURE, because even if I don't believe that Reform Judaism is the right approach, I still believe that it's a hell of a lot better than having those Jews driven out of Judaism entirely. Given that there are people out there who want to convert or massacre ALL OF US, why in the name of all that's holy do we have rabbis who are so concerned with driving wedges between different branches of Judaism? Is THIS kind of idiocy the way to get all Jews to make aliyah? "Worse than Muslims?" What does that even MEAN?
22. Rabbi Lior is correct
(10.25.06)
The Reformed Jews are fakers. You cannot pick and choose parts of halacha to keep. It is impossible to say that there is no Torah she'Baal Peh because is you didn't have it there would be no way to interpret the Chumash. Obviously we need some sort of Messorah to tell us how to interpret psukim. Otherwise religion would be a man-made thing (i.e. Reform is man-made but Orthodox is the true Torah Judaism that was given to us by Hashem). Reformed Jews are mamash epicorsim (heretics)!!
23. yeledim3@comcast.net
dana ,   ny   (10.25.06)
Reform has mixed seating not because of egalitarian reasons, but because the Protetant churches it imitates do.
24. Rabbi Dov Lior is correct.
Mike Rafone ,   Audio, USA   (10.25.06)
I am not particularly religious, but would never dream of entering a Conservative "temple", let alone a Reform one. If you're going to worship G-D Almighty, then do it the right way, the way He desires. Or stay home, and pray there. G-D can hear you there too, and doesn't require a microphone
25. steer clear of rabbis and settlers from kiryat arba...
yonatan ,   nyc   (10.25.06)
since they are the ones who are completely detached from reality and the rest of the world. chilonim need to stick together.
26. Reforms Worse Than Muslims
Canadian ,   Ottawa   (10.25.06)
I have attended an Orthodox Shul (not to be confused with ultra-othodox) my whole life and I admit that I find the Reform "Temple" odd, with women rabbies who eat shrimp. BUT at least they consider themselves Jews, who practice in their own way. They are certainly not "worse than Muslims", come on! It is little wonder there is such antagonism against the Ultra-Orthodox Jews as they really feel that Jews who are not Ultra-Orthodox are "worse" than gentiles. I have felt that even though I attend an Orthodox Shul, the Ultra-Orthodox "look down" on us. Who do they think they are, anyway? I don't consider them "drek" because they wear goofy black wool clothes and hats in 100 degree weather, nor do I think they are not "real" Jews because they adopt this dress from some shtetl in Poland 150 years ago, which has nothing at all to do with the Torah. They need to give up their intolerance and self-importance, as it is tiresome (I believe) to the vast majority of Jews who are not Ultra-Orthodox.
27. 1.5 million?
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (10.25.06)
In the last YNet article, it was 1.2 million, but whatever. 920 temples in the U.S., 400 (avg) members claimed per temple (including intermarrieds and bogus converts), you do the math, but it ain't 1.5 milliion or 1.2 million either. Reform Jews don't have avg. 10 kids per family like Haredi Jews I know, they are below replacement level in the reproduction dept. and they are contracepting, aborting and gaying themselves into extinction. 1.2 million my ass.
28. What misunderstanding of true Christianity...
Darren ,   Tampa, FL USA   (10.25.06)
"Jewish law forbids Jews from entering churches as Christianity is viewed as idolatry, entering mosques, however, is permitted as Muslims, like Jews, believe only in one deity." What a misunderstanding of true Christianity. Christianity is a monotheist religion. Jesus Christ is merely that one God who came in the flesh as the promised Messiah. Think of water. It can take the form of a solid (ice), liquid (water), and gas (steam). Yet it is still all WATER. Jesus the Son of God is merely God who Himself came to earth in the flesh. There are three views of the one God: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Not three gods, but ONE GOD in three forms. Christians BELEIVE that the Old Tesatament IS the Word of God and there is only ONE GOD. Jesus quoted from the Scriputures, i.e. Old Testament. Christians just believe that the Messiah promised in Isaiah 53 and elsewhere in the Old Testament is none other than Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ fulfills all of the wonderful prophecies of the Old Testament regarding His first Coming. Muslims also are misguided in thinking that Christians are "polytheist" as well. Now Orthodox Jews say it is ok to go into a mosque because they believe in "one god". If you look at that "one god" carefully, it is NOT the same "one god' the Orthodox Jews believe in. The God of the Old Testament is NOT the God of the Quran. It is JUST AMAZING that some orthodox Jews don't understand that and that they find no problem going into a mosque whose God is not their God. The only similarity between the two faiths is monotheism. Two faiths believing in ONE god who in reality is NOT the same god for the Old Testament speaks of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob who when compared to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael are different entitites with different attributes. But Orthodox Jews find no problem with that....WOW! Orthodox Jews obiviously don't know the Quran. And are blind in understanding Isaiah 53 and other OT prophecies regarding the Messiah. Now I understand how some people can think Christianity is polytheist with the "deification" of Mary. Mary was a blessed lady - a virgin. But she was a sinner like everyone else. She even ceased to be a virgin after the virgin birth of Christ, when she gave birth to Jesus' brothers. She can not save. She does not answer prayers. She is not the promised intermediary. She is simply the blessed virgin mother of the one who is. For Christians who believe the Bible, it is Jesus Christ and none other who can reconcile you to the Father. Mary can't save you and she can't answer your prayers. She is not the messiah and she is not God in the Flesh. Only Jesus Christ is. And I understand the confusion, due to many professing Christians who do idol worship Mary. That is not true Christianity. Mary is NOT to be worship. Worship only God. Wow...Not I've made the Orthodox Jews, Muslims, and now Catholics mad at me! :)
29. PURE SPIN
LEE ,   NY, USA   (10.25.06)
This writer really tried his best to spin the ruling of this most revered Rabbi and to smear his name unjustly. The last quote just about displays these slanderous remarks as facts, which is scandalous. I am certain that the Rabbi does not hate any Jew, nor G-d forbid does he intend to segregate or hurt any family, and I doubt that he equates Reform Judaism with idolatry. This is all spin and a clear attempt at incitement against a revered Rabbi. I understand his ruling completely. Reform Judaism, as a movement, seeks to literally "reform" Jewish Law. To change it in a myriad of ways and display it still as "authentic" Judaism. It picks and chooses its tenets almost daily and then instructs unlearned people that these tenets are actually authentic and authorized. I've been to Reform synagogues and I respect these Jews and love them all the same. In fact, just about all my friends are secular Jews who attend Reform syngagoues. Nonetheless, these institutions that sanctify changing aspects of the Covenant are a huge danger to Jewish unity and Jewish Law. You can only feel sorry for the unlearned who get sucked into believing that the Mitzvot aren't all that important. I blame their "Rabbis" much more than they themselves. I, also would therefore not want my children to participate in these synagogues since these institutions legitimize the filtration of and convolution of authentic Torah law. This is much more dangerous than a church, since a Jew that enters a church realizes that he is in a place of foreign worship (since this worship is partly idolatrous though, a Jew cannot enter based on Jewish Law). Same for a Mosque (which has no idolatrous aspects and therefore can be visited by a Jew). However, in a Reform syngagoue that attendant is actually led to believe that his form of "Judaism " is just as accepted on high and that there is no real reason for him to strengthen his observance or change his ways, which is certaintly not the case per the word of G-d and His Torah. Therefore what this great Rabbi is trying to do is to preserve authentic Jewish Law per our tradition from Sinai and not to incite hate, nor to break families, nor to cast them off as idolators. These are all smear tactics by this most pathetic writer. The intelligent reader will understand the difference.
30. Reform Judaism and orthodox responses
Daniel ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (10.25.06)
Wonderful response to a 12 year old girl! Teach her at an early age to promote sinat chinam against fellow Jews. Absolutely beautiful message. Did these rabbis study in Gemara class why the second temple was destroyed?
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