Stone throwing isn't limited to the Palestinians. I've seen news where the Ultra-Orthodox hurl stones. It was reported at Ynet as follows: Hundreds of ultra-Orthodox block road in town of Beit Shemesh, hurl stones at police officers in protest of new residents who are 'not religious enough' I bet those folks would be against Hallowe'en too! I think a big part of the problem in our world is with extremists and fundamentalists no matter what their religion or politics. So let's have fun at Hallowe'en and forget our differences. Let's get creative. Maybe we should dress up as our "enemies" and walk in their shoes for a few hours.

#26 its the xtian philosophy that i hate NOT THE PEOPLE ITS THE PHILOSPOHY AS I SO MANY TIME MENTIONED OF TELLING JEWS THAT YOU JEUS WORSHIPPERS ARE THE perfected JEWS . (in TORAH truth, you are the imperfections if you need a word...but JEWS must RESPECT your imperfections in a civil relationship but JEWS are not to allow you to step on us ) AND YOUR PROSLYTIZING AND MISSIONAZING DOOR TO DOOR, STREET CORNER TO STREET CORNER IS WHAT WE DISPISE, YOU HAVE KILLED US PHYSICALLY IN THE INQUISITION AND NOW YOU KILL US SPIRITUALLY THROUGH LIES DECEIPTION AND IMPOSITIONS OF YOUR WAYS UPON US. YOU ARE ALWAYS AT ODDS WITH THE JEWISH PEOPLE. WE LIVE IN GHETTOS AND ,,,YOU COMPLAIN WE GO INTO THE WORLD AND SUCCEED,,, YOU COMPLAIN. WE PRAY THE WAY THE 'GD' OF ISRAEL TOLD US ,,,YOU COMPLAIN. YOU ALWAYS CREATE EXCUSES WHY YOU DONT LIKE US.... OR YOU CREATE EXCUSES WHY YOU WOULD LOVE US IF ONLY IF.... ITS ALWAYS... "IF ONLY *YOU JEWS WOULD......." I WOULD LOVE YOU... IF ONLY YOU NON JEWS WOULD LOVE US AS WE ARE *** WHICH IS USUALLY WITH OUR OWN PEOPLE... SIDE NOTE: HITLER FOUND US JEWS NO MATTER WHAT WE DID TO SATISFY YOU.. WE CHANGED OUR NAMES OUR CLOTHES AND OUR WAY OF LIFE AND YOU STILL KILLED US ..... WHERE IS YOUR LOVE? HOW WILL YOU NON JEWS CHANGE.... TO GIVE YOUR LOVE TO THE 'GD' OF ISRAEL THE WAY MOSES TRIED TO SHOW YOU '' THAT YOU, JEUS AND ALL YR POPES REJECTED... WHEN WILL YOU LEAVE 'GDS' CHOSEN PRAY TO .. '''THE GD OF ISRAEL AS WE SHOULD''' LET US JEWS GROW INTO THE BEACON OF LIGHT THAT YOU YEAR FOR. IT CANNOT BE DONE AS **YOU WANT.. ONLY THROUGH TORAH BY ORTHODOX TORAH PEOPLE CAN THAT BEACON SHINE""" in reference to the CAPS: IT KINDA MAKES YA THINK THAT I AM SPEAKING TA CHILDREN IN LARGE BOLD FONT AND LESS WORDS ON A LINE......... I DONT WANNA LUV YA.. I WANNA RESPECT YA. THE HEBREW PROPHETS SAY SOMETHING LIKE..... THAT THE CHILDREN OF ESAU(XTIANS) WILL KNOW 'THE 'GD' OF ISRAEL AND WILL ABANDONE THEIR OLD WAYS AND WILL SERVE ONLY 'HIM' AND THE JEWS WILL BE KNOWN AS 'HIS' CHOSEN AND WILL BE KNOWN AS THE PRIEST OF THE WORLD... some words have been changed to make it simpler to digest....

HE SEES OTHER FAITHS AS "religiously freaked out parents bullying them with lies. " HANIHAHA IS WRONG , AND AS A XTIAN THAT HE IS,, IMPOSING HIS BELIEF ON OTHERS AS I MENTIONED ABOVE. MUSLIMS CLOSE THEIR DOORS.... JEWS CLOSE THEIR DOORS..... WE ARE FORBIDDEN TO ADD/PARTICIPATE TO THE CELEBRATION OF PAGANISM OR WHATEVER DESCRIPTION YOU WANT TO USE TO DANCE AROUND WHAT IT IS... HANAHAHA IS WRONG AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.

Jews do that, Arja, on Purim. Dress up as their enemies, that is, and drink until they no can no longer tell friend from foe.

I didn't know that about Purim. I just searched the web for more information and Purim sounds more interesting than Hallowe'en which has become so commercial. (the kids are coming to my door as I write this). I found the info at www.aish.com/purimparty/purimpartydefault/Costume_Madness.asp quite intriguing. Purim sounds like it can provide for a deeper experience than Hallowe'en. Shalom

Wow. I am almost speechless after reading your post #32, and I also feel terrible. I'm not Catholic, so your words about the pope don't apply to me, but it doesn't matter. What matters is the negative view you have of Christians. I AM SORRY that Christians have done things to create such a bad impression in your mind of us. But the things you said about Christians do not apply to me nor do they apply to all Christians. I do not want to step on you, proselytze, missionize, or kill you. I don't want you in ghettos, nor do I complain if you succeed nor if you pray differently than I do. I also do not see me or any other Jesus worshipper as a "perfected Jew." If you look at history there were many bad Christians doing terrible things to Jews in the name of their religion, but you will ALSO see good Christians who did the opposite. I am truly sorry, Dacon9.

YOU ARE '''ALL'''JEUS WORSHIPPERS.. AND THE ROMAN CATHOLICS ARE TO BE BLAMED MORE THAN ANY BRANCH OF JEUS YOU MAY CALL THEM.. IT IS A ROMAN CATHOLIC DOCTRINE TO TRY TO CONVERT AND PROSELYTIZE.. YOU SEPERATE XTIAN FROM THIS AND THAT.... ITS ALL THE SAME JEUS WORSHIP TO JEWS IT IS ALL THE ONE SAME JEUS WORSHIP.. WHICH IS BLATANTLY AGAINST TORAH.... DO NOT ABSOLVE YOURSELF OF THIS DO NOT MAKE YOURSELF FEEL GOOD FROM YOUR POSTING... WHEN YOU ABSOLVE YOURSELF OF YOUR RELIGION AND LEARN THE NOAHIDE LAWS ACCORDING TO WHAT 'GD' WANTS FROM YOU THAT MOSES TRIED TO OFFER YOU.. .WHEN YOU FOLLOW THOSE NOAHIDE LAWS AS INTERPRETED BY A JEW AND NOT BY A NON JEW.. THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL YOU BE ABSOLVED OF YOUR TRANSGRESSIONS AGAINST JUDAISM,,,,, AND YOU WILL HAVE EARNED YOUR SHARE IN THE NEXT WORLD THESE ARE THE TEACHINGS OF THE CHOSEN ,, THE TORAH AND A GIFT TO YOU NON JEWS.. YOU REFUSED THIS GIFT FROM THE ''GD' OF ISRAEL ONCE... THIS IS YOUR INDIVIDUALOPPURTUNITY TO ACCEPT IT AGAIN.. FOLLOW THE NOAHIDE LAWS

You said you made your last post, but I assume you'll read this. I did not mean my posting to make myself feel good or to absolve myself of anything. You've made a lot of assumptions about me. I hope that some day Christians will have earned a better opinion in your eyes.

Okay, the Hallowe'en fun's over now. Is it time to discuss the dead and dying in the open air prison of Gaza? For those who haven't heard, Jimmy Carter is releasing his new book in two weeks. It's called Palestine Peace Not Apartheid. Perhaps it will awaken the ordinary Americans to the plight of the Palestinians and they'll learn how much MONEY is being spent by the USA to support the Israelis in this heinous injustice against humanity.

Arja, why don't you check out this site: http://www.pierrerehov.com/ and find out how much money is spent by the US, Canadian, EU tax payer in order to support Palestinian terrorism and lies and actually MURDER Israelis: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3321605,00.html Tamir Abouksis, a 13-year-old boy from Sderot celebrated his bar mitzvah last night. On January 15, 2005, his home-town came under a qassam rocket attack. His life was saved by his 17-year-old sister, Ella (Ayala), of the blessed memory, who simply lay on top of him when she noticed the rocket approaching. She was severely wounded and died of her wounds a few days later, despite intensive treatment in the Soroka Hospital http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3321605,00.html the article is in Hebrew, but you can see the girl's picture. Sderot in NOT occupied territory.

if not, you at least sound like one.

According to B'Tselem at www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualties.asp Between 9.9.2000 and 15.10.2006: There have been 235 Israeli civilians killed by Palestinians in the Occupied Territories and 462 in Israel. There have been 228 Israeli security force personnel killed by Palestinians in the OT and 86 in Israel. There have been 3769 Palestinians killed by Israeli security forces in OT and 61 in Israel. Of those 773 were minors (104 in 2006). Israeli minors killed by Palestinians is 39 in OT and 80 in Israel (none in over a year). To give them all a human face, you can view a list of all the casualties and how they died. Check especially how the Palestinian children died. In all likelihood you already know about the Israelis. In any case way too many have senselessly died on both sides.

B'Tselem The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories is an excellent resource. You can get statistics on Fatalities, Detainees and prisoners, Destruction of property, Settlements, Injured Persons, Restrictions on movement, Water and more. I quote from B'Tselem at www.btselem.org/english/special/position_on_pa_tax_monie.asp: Israel 's decision to withhold the transfer of the tax moneys flagrantly violates a written agreement, the effect of which is the theft of moneys to which it is not entitled. More importantly, the decision has far-reaching consequences: it prevents the PA from exercising the powers delegated to it by Israel in the Oslo Agreements, primarily the power to provide services and employment to residents of the Occupied Territories . Therefore, if the decision remains in effect, Israel would violate not only the economic agreement it made with the Palestinians, but also all the agreements that depend on the arrangement to transfer the tax moneys. Given that Israel maintains effective control over the area, the decision makes Israel responsible once again for the protection of the human rights of the Palestinian population. If the health, welfare, educational and other systems in the Occupied Territories fail to function, Israel itself will be responsible for providing these services to the local residents.

To include all that was the life of a person, a father, a mother, daughter or son, as a statistic....we are counting too many deaths. Were we not put here to live? I am afraid the time will come when my tears will be more than I can hold in my hands. Please stop killing.

The missiles and arsenal available to Palestinians pales in comparison to Israeli military equipment and weapons. The funding and support for Palestine is negligible compared to what Israel receives from just the USA. Yes, there was corruption in the Palestinian government and how the money was used, but that seems to be the story of most if not all governments in the world, including my own! I wonder how much gets covered up compared to the "unlucky" ones who get caught. I like governments about as much as I like organized religions. So I would rather focus on the PEOPLE, especially the children. Palestinians have been the victims of their own governments and the governments of other countries.

I was just reading some poetry that brought tears to my eyes. It's by Aharon Shabtai, a renowned Israeli poet, married to Tanya Reinhart whose writings I respect. They have decided that they no longer can live in Israel because of the atrocities committed by their government in their names and the attempts to silence them. You can find some of Shabtai's poems at www.frammenti.it/VociDeserto/english/aharon_poetries.asp Here's the beginning of J'Accuse: J'ACCUSE The sniper who shot at Muhammad the child beneath his father's arm wasn't acting alone- someone else in uniform, a junior cog in the wheel who was briefed at a higher level, positioned him there on the roof, a public servant, a cantor for the Days of Awe; and someone else manufactured the ammunition, and another had it distributed like bars of chocolate.

the Dura child was not killed by the IDF, that was a piece of Pallywood: http://youtube.com/watch?v=DzsCBFhCsyY

This is way off the article, but maybe about the innocents. What about the children, we ask. Let me tell you a little story of my own. End days in s vietnam. About 10k north of Bien Hoa. Open fields, treelined. Along the trees, we always stayed close to trees. Stayed low. We were clearing a farming area. Looking for the bad guys. A small child is about 100yds ahead in the trees. I got closer and saw the kid had munitions strapped to her. Shit, we're both scared out of our wits. I had to calm the kid while we unstrapped the stuff and disabled the trigger wires. She was frantic, slapping her chest and crying. What about the children you ask. Maybe it's time to stop the killing, stop the hate. And some wonder why I cannot condone war. If you haven't tasted death, had a buddy's guts spattered into your mouth, it's real easy to talk strong. I will never leave the path of peace. Peace is every step. No other way. That little girl should have been going door to door in a costume, collecting sweets. An innocent holiday-if we choose to make it such.

these terrorist acts occurred prior to any intifada: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=100254 http://www.theraphi.com/da/may/15.html It looks that the Palestinians are responsible for their own children's deaths. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b2QhQQpHck http://youtube.com/watch?v=N6MafdQcATQ http://youtube.com/watch?v=PPU4UN03t7E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykx9bNQAF0Q&mode=related&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuRp4qXARCY http://youtube.com/watch?v=cegyw14OIMY in fact, suicide bombings carry a very strange signature http://youtube.com/watch?v=hzNdZ8vfuHc

Have nothing to do with the unprofitable works of darkness; rather expose them.

Sad lines, indeed Michael. Great story. Love how you linked it to Hallowe'en! Children growing up in violent homes suffer trauma. How much worse must it be for a violent community, like a First Nations reserve in northern Ontario where I stayed for a couple of months. Many buildings were destroyed, vandalized and it felt like living in a war zone. Both children and adults needed help to deal with their traumas. I would expect that war zones like Gaza are even more traumatic. At www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_10652.shtml there is a transcript of an interview on Pacifica Radio with Dr. Jess Ghannam and Dr. Mona El-Farra. The former was a Clinical Professor of Psychiatry and Chief of Medical Psychology at the University of California in San Francisco. The latter was Deputy Director of the Union of Health Worker Committees living in Gaza. The interview took place on the 32nd day of a siege on northern Gaza in July 2004. The mayor of Beit Hannoum called the town "a disaster zone" and estimated the losses of the town at over $110 million. Israeli forces had destroyed homes, roads and 7100 dunnums of arable land which included citrus, olive and fruit trees and 17 wells and turned it into a wasteland. Dr. Ghannan calls the first trauma Trans-generational because four generations of Palestinians have been traumatized in the last 5 decades . There is also Continuous Trauma because Palestinians encounter life-threatening events EVERY day. And thirdly there is something he calls Multiple Trauma, meaning they might witness the destruction of their home, see murders or assassinations, or beatings all in one day. He states, that "the research indicates that, especially when you compare this with children all over the world, the number of children who have experienced at least one symptom, for example, of Post-traumatic Stress Disorder is well over 80 per cent." http://cosmos.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/php/topic.php?tid=346 is a site with many links addressing the effects of Occupation on Palestinian children. I'm sure Israeli children also experience fear of and trauma from suicide bombings and missiles. What are the Israeli and Palestinian children learning from the adults who are engaged in this conflict? It becomes a vicious circle with violence leading to more violence. I have always wondered at how our "civilized" countries send young men (for the most part) to fight the battles of the old folks. These young people are TAUGHT to kill because for most it does not come that easily. I've heard about some of the programs used in the USA. Why would any mother want their son or daughter to be in the military. I remember hearing Israeli mothers discussing how they worried about the changes in their sons after joining the IDF. What a waste of human potential! I think of babies from around the world. Each one has the potential to become a creative, caring human being until us adults start to teach them. We teach by our actions. We SAY "use words, not fists" to our students at school, but they SEE adults fighting and killing and hating. And yet, we still glorify war. I don't get it.

What makes you think that those Palestinian sources are trustworthy? I am glad you pointed out that israeli parents worry that joining the IDF might change their children, i.e. mainly becoming dead, maimed, traumatized. I just read somewhere that we have 90 thousand IDF veterans in rehab - I do not know whether that is accurate, I hope it is a typo - but I sure know we have amputees, blind, badly burnt, paralyzed, traumatized - one just has to visit a veteran rehab facility for an eye opener. Still, we do not teach our children to hate the Arabs. I know from relatives serving in the army that abuses are severely punished, and no soldier is encouraged or taught to aim at civilians, women or children. That is why even Barghouti was caught in women's clothing, he was sure he would not be targetted. You will not find an Israeli school or textbook teaching what the Palestinians teach in their schools or mosques. You will not find one Israeli suicide bomber. You will never hear Israeli parents bragging that their child died killing innocent Arabs. We do not have martyrs. That is why so many bereaved parents initiated or joined peace movements. And Arja, there are some authors I have also learned to respect, such as Tatiana Menaker, Daniel Pipes, Michael Behe, Joseph Farah, Brigitte Gabriel, Waffa Sultan, who speak more from their brains than from their guts. I believe it is high time UNICEF had a serious investigation of Palestinian abusing their children's basic rights: right to go to school (instead of sending them to throw stones at Israeli soldiers), right to life (instead of teaching them to strap dynamite to their bodies, or giving them the equivalent of USD 20 - twenty- to go blow themselves up next to a check point). I shall quote Golda Meir again - there will be peace whent he Arabs decide to love their children more than they hate Israelis. When you hear people say - I cannot believe a parent wishes their child dead fighting/killing the Israelis, believe it. That's what Arabs do - teach their children that it is not only alright, it is pleasing allah to die killing innocent Israeli civilians (why do you think ALL suicide bombers videotape themselves holding the quran and quoting suras?). You repeatedly hear them regretting that they do not have more children who can blow themselves up against Israelis, you hear them saying that they cannot wait for the little ones to grow up in order to follow in their older brothers' footsteps.

Each and every one of us is a gift. Each is a soul gifted with an earthly experience, here to honour the world as the world honours us with sustinance, beauty and the companionship of another soul or souls. What we choose to do with these gifts is our free choice. There is no greater gift we give ourselves and no greater gift we can give others, one that no one may remove, honour. Shakespeare said it best in one of his sonnets, can't remember which one at the moment. If we choose a violent path, we spread trauma, damaging other souls, others we should honour. For my part, I will be paying the price for the trauma caused by others for the rest of my days. My small way of undoing the trauma not of my doing. Thankyou, x fatherinlaw.

#54 Profound and beautiful. Too bad the radical muslims and militant Palestinians don't read Shakespeare ... or anyone else for that matter except for the rantings of clerics like the fundamentalist Sheites. Actually, all they probably ever read is their twisted interpretation of the Qoran... you know, the word of God to Alla of the that most beautiful, peaceful religion on earth.... The one that Amedija whatever says is God's favorite religion -- I'm SURE he is speaking for more than himself. The radicals who believe this are holding the average Paletinians hostage as well as the rest of the world's Muslims. As I said, Shakespeare or other insightful writers are not very high on the radical Muslim's best seller lists. Unlike Ray and other "kiss and make up liberals", I don't see the problem as being as simple as sending a zillion psychologists to the Mideast to counsel everyone out of their "hatred" complex. There are enough reasonable, peace loving people in the region to bring about a lasting peace someday if one can just subdue or nuetralize the radicals long enough. This may sound extreme, but can anyone suggest a better way to deal with armed, radical, extremists? Tell me. I'm all ears. Oh, ... and good luck.

Unfortunately, I don't think the solution lies in psychologists or psychiatrists, though they might help a bit. I think much of the problem is religious so perhaps a spiritual solution is what's needed. Perhaps I could write a dissertation on THAT! There is evidence that Palestinians are become increasingly Islamic fundamentalist. Perhaps when the fear and the terror gets to be so immense, that a person feels helpless, hopeless and hapless, then committing suicide as a suicide bomber or reckless militant makes no difference. There is nothing to lose cause the feeling is that all's been lost already. So at least having a cause and a belief in a higher power, will help a terrorized people cope. And of course, being terrorized can also be a state of mind. Just look at all those Americans who are petrified of terror attacks...... and look at the increase in fundamentalist evangelical Christianity. I don't really see any difference between the 1) Ultra-Orthodox Kahanists, or zionists who support masada2000.org AND 2) fundamentalist evangelical Christians AND 3) extremist muslims. Religious DOGMA and literalist interpretations of the holy books is divisive; whereas, Judaism, Christianity and Islam all have more loving evolved interpretations as well. But they require higher mental functioning (imagination for one!) which is not as available to people under siege because people downshift to a more animal cognitive level of fight/flight/freeze when threatened. I think we should all become pantheists LOL and then there would be peace on earth ...unless it becomes dogmatic.... And then we could go find some beautiful natural area and read good literature and nourish our mind and spirit.

There is strong evidence that when reason fails, our brains revert to the reptilian cortex region, fight or flight, survival, rape(procreation). It is obvious that Islam feels threatened. The reaction seems normal owing to present circumstances. The book, "Broca's Brain" by Sagan is a good read, not literature perhaps, but informative as to how our brains function, especially under stress. My younger sister is a Baptist living in the bible belt. She calls once in a while to tell me what a good man I am, all the good things I do, and then tells me I'm still going to hell if I don't accept jesus. I am thus patted and then slapped. Hmmm... Makes me want to take a month off and sail the Sound, read some books and find some quiet. Away from excessive dogma. If Israel continues to attack the Palestinians, they are indeed pushing brain functions away from reason. A good title for a book - "The Age of Un-Reason".

It is foolish (and dangerous) to underestimate anyone's ability to learn. That is, after all, why we are here. To lump together all of Islam as readers of only one book....sounds abit stereotypical. Perhaps the best way to "deal with armed, radical, extremists", as you put it, would be to give them reason not to be so? I hope my words are not taken as passive-aggressive. They were not meant to be so.

Carl Sagan did postulate that eventually we all would follow that path. (Pale Ble Dot)

I agree with your last posts, and have always FELT that way. I believe I'm familiar with the research you are refering to. The reason I make a clear and strong reference to radical Muslims is because I wish to draw a clear distinction between that group and the the rest of the Muslim/Arab world. To always try to be politically correct and avoid saying anything that could get me attacked as a bigotted stereotyper would be minimizing and being dishonest when referring to the present "real world" situation. Radical Muslims and radical Islam are a clear and present danger. I believe a person would be very self conscious or even naive to avoid calling a spade a spade and avoiding labels that acurately describe the radical, overly emotional, and dangerous factions within Islam. Actually, it was a devote Muslim friend from Saudi Arabia who advised me to always draw a distinction between those of radical Islam who he felt were causing the problems for the rest of the Muslim world. He encouraged me to refer to them as such, "radical Muslims" or "radical Islam". I'm an optimist, but also a realist. I don't think making the Muslim world aware of psychology and Sagan's writings, "Broca's Brain" will get you anywhere. The radicals are fundamentalists NOT secularists. They couldn't care less about psychology or modern science unless they can use it within their own radical, theological frame work (like building the radical Muslim A-bomb. I relize what I am saying here is quick and blunt, but time and space are short.