PEOPLE DEFENDING TORAH ARE THUGS? PEOPLE DECECRATING TORAH ARE ADDING HOLINESS? YOU ARE NOT PERMITTED TO ADD TO TORAH.. THE WAYS TO HOLINESS IS ALREADY DEFINED IN TORAH... ALL THOSE MARCHING WITH THE GAYS ARE ADDING TO THE DESECRATION AND ABOMINATION . SAYING YOU ARE NOT GAY BEN AMI DOESNT LEGITIMIZE THE ABOMINATION OR LESSEN THE TRANSGRESSION IT ADDS TO THE DESTRUCTION OF HOLINESS. WHEN THE PEOPLE SEE THOSE THAT FOLLOW TORAH AS THUGS THEN THE SIGNS OF MASHIACH ARE CERTAINLY HERE. AND THEY* SHOULD PREPARE FOR REPENTANCE. THE DEFENDERS OF TORAH THROUGH OUT HISTORY HAS ALWAYS SURVIVED AND THOSE THAT WENT AGAINST HAVE ALWAYS DISSAPPEARED. HISTORY IS THE PROOF. TORAH TELLS IT

if we allow a peaceable, modest demonstration by law abiding gay folks in Israel's capital? In that one sentence, Feiglin all at once reveals how illogical the hysteria about the pride march and its significance are and he underestimates one of Israel's greatest strengths - that it is a liberal, free democracy that protects the rights of minority communities such as gays and lesbians. In our country, unlike our neighbors, we can solve our problems from respectful dialogue between leaders of the gay community and respected rabbis. And that is exactly what is happening here. The government would be wrong to cave in to haredi terrorist threats. Indeed, caving in to threats of violence would send the wrong message to our enemies. That would demonstrate weakness. We'll be there on Friday - in our capital.

Look. Nothing much to talk here. Feiglin's wrong talking of Sodom and connecting his anti-parade feelings with religion. Although he understands it well, non-religious population will turn away from his thougts. The points should be these: 1) If gays want to be equal (and that is, until now, was the motto of the parade) they should act as equal. I won't get on the street shouting "I'm straight", dancing half-naked on the street (like the parades in Tel-Aviv), kissing random females - all in the name of showing that I'm like everyone else - as this puts me in category of "unlike everyone else" - at least because regular people don't do these things. 2) If I had children, I wouldn't want them to go out and see an event - which they certainly will - with random kissing couples of the same sex and promoting homosexuality. Not because I think homosexuality is wrong - but because sex is a personal issue and young kids should not be taught that. Thanks to nowadays television and music, they wil learn all this by themselves. So, the parade should be cancelled. The organizers say that nowadays there are many young gay people who feel alone in the world, feeling there is something wrong with them. First of all, homosexuality is not a taboo nowadays. Also, if there's such a problem with youth - the "Open House" should put all their financial resources and their energy into educating youth about homosexuality and that it is okay to be gay - not creating controversial demonstrations most regular people don't want to happen. Something like this would only hurt homosexual youth, as their parents, being angry at the event and would be angry at the gay community.

In one, gays are the greatest threat the world has ever know. That a group of people that liberal statistics say make up approximately 10% of the population and conservative (religious) statistics say make up only about 1% of the population -- in reality the numbers are generally accepted in scientific and medical circles to be about 6% of women and 8% of men -- would have this much power over the world must truly be frightening, and only more so for the religious who believe the 1% number, as that only adds to the power that a very small group of people have. Who would ever really believe that a group of people who often fear for losing their jobs, being ostracised by their families and friends, and in far to many cases afraid for losing their lives, would have the power to crumble nations, shake the foundations of religion and society, and destroy the world. If this is at all true, then religion, society and nations are built on a very fragile foundation, and perhaps they were never intended to survive, but are maintained simply by the never ending and repetative work of a people to afrais to consider an alternative, any alternative, whose structure may provide a sounder foundation. The other view states that gays and lesbians are by and large a persecuted minority, even if they have created increasing levels of tolerance and stability in their lives through their own hard work for the past two hundred years. In many places, including in Jerusalem, it is still dangerous to be gay and lesbian, even if a discreate one. Why should this be so? Even if gays and lesbians represent a minority, as all jews do in most places outside of Israel, is that reason for them to fear persecution and violence. As jews, we expect, even if we do not receive, tolerance and acceptance, not only in spite of, but because of our differences, and we seek to be integrated and fulling participating members of any society in which we live, even if we are the minority. As such, we have a responsibility to show the same tolerance and acceptance of others, even if how they live their lives is strange and different to us, and confuses us. The goal must be to attempt understanding. Open House attempted understanding, by attempting to meet with haredi leaders and negotiating a compromise, to meet as many of the needs of the haredim community as possible, without limiting their own rights, rights which they have no right to surrender, as one has no right to surrender their own freedom nor can it be taken from them. But hte haredim rejected these appeals from Open House, exactly because they were nto willing to make any attempt to understand, not accept, but simply understand and tolerate. And often it is their own children, those gay and lesbian haredim children they will not admit exist, who suffer the consequences, even more so than those they protest by their own admission. Those dejected children who grow up to be closeted adults, hurting themselves and all those around them. All because their parents, families, friends, and community are not willing to even attempt to understand them. So the question is, which do you believe? Are gays and lesbians some sort of ubermensch, with supernatural powers, or are they just another minority, trying to gain acceptance and understanding in the face of intolerance and descrimination, trying to find their lives and live them?

well said Jonathan M!!!

Don't buy Feiglin's malarky, however Western he tries to make it sound. The use of governmental force to prohibit free speech and political assembly because of the political ideology of the group in question is absolutely "religious coercion," and there is nothing democratic about it. All you need to ask yourself is, "could this parade take place ANYWHERE in the US, the oldest continuously functioning democratic republic in the world?" If the answer is "yes," and it is, we know what Feiglin's agenda is. Feiglin just mourns that the majority would not tolerate a halachic state. He will introduce it gradually, and, as Jefferson might say, the encroachments will become more and more oppressive until the body of the people will ultimately revive or expire in a convulsion. I have written more extensively about this on the linked article below. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=6648

What is this about nobody is persecuting homosexuals and that we are forcing homosexuality on the public? I get stopped daily by ultra-orthodox trying to get me to be religious. I have never tried to convince someone to become gay (as if that was possible). Until gays have the same rights as heterosexuals (to marry, get a mortgage and own property together, be on each others insurance, have children by law, to not be harassed on the streets) there will be a need for gay pride marches. Since I don’t have the same rights with my partner of 15 years as my married friends of 10 minutes with the government, with the bank, with national insurance, I am going to this march.

"Unless you discover...." Your really sick and insecure about who you are. This is an example of the gay lies told to straight heterosexuals which is at the heart of why the gay parade is so evil. Do you really believe there is some dark deep hidden "gay" gene that has been fooling you your whole life into thinking your normal? This type of angle is what gays use to sell the idea of getting pleasure and simply saying its not my faulty I chose perversion, after all it was hidden inside of me. (by the way this is the same trick hypnotists and salesman use to weaken an audiences' will) Such excuse making is parrellel to a peodophile saying that his choices are natural and the world is wrong for not allowing it. This phscological BS you offer is only to enable pervets to justify their behavior and this foothold for evil persuastion should be harshly criticized and ostricised from human civilization. Physco babble and excuse making of evil men. Anyone asking "am I" should rather be asking "should I?" and to that the answer is no regardless of your unchecked perverted desires! Get professional help man. As for you joining the march it is clear you already have crossed over and your trying to pull a fast-one on the reading audience. Righteous you are not but homosexual you are. Not straight man would say what you said, your simply keeping up the appearances by maintaining a wife. You choice is clear and so considering the source your "pro-gay" is like a car salesman saying it is a good deal.

B"H I have seen no gay Parade in Washington, D.C. So what is your point on Feiglin? Jerusalem is the State Capitol of a Jewish State, and not the State Capitol of Sedom. The parade is just set to disgrace the Jewish people and make a mockery of the Jewish Torah, as well as undermine sovereignty of the Jewish Temple. That is why there is no gay parade in the streets of Washington, D.C. That community knows such a parade is not permitted there on the streets because it is disrespectful of the morality of the country. There is no such parade at the Vatican, at Moscow, or in Damascus. But who would dare question the morality of any of the other capitols by even proposing such a mockery? The Jews have no freedom to whisper on the Temple Mount which is Jewish territory, that represents Jewish morality, and yet a full parade is permitted in the streets from the opposite persuation. That is a disgusting imbalance.

And your LONG hysterical misinterpretation indicates that you have "issues" of your own to resolve.

The bottom line.. God loves the gays.. but does not like the sin.. They can march all they want, but the Lord will never approve of their sinful lifestyle

Photo From A Past Jerusalem Gay Parade: Coming Soon This Friday http://www.ynet.co.il/PicServer/18052003/270805/1_w.jpg

B"H Just kidding. Do you have to flaunt your Haredism all the time? "I have seen no gay Parade in Washington, D.C. ... That is why there is no gay parade in the streets of Washington, D.C. That community knows such a parade is not permitted there on the streets because it is disrespectful of the morality of the country." Ask and ye shall receive. In under 10 seconds, I found the following: http://www.metroweekly.com/prideguide/ Oops! Apparently, the DC pride parade has been going on for 25 years. How do you know so little about your own country and yet feel so free to blabber nonsense about it? That truly is arrogant. All the business about "disgrace," "mockery" and the rest have no bearing on free speech or assembly but are you venting your feelings. There is no requirement that you, or anyone but the demonstrators, approve of the mesage being communicated. As I can't imagine that you've been to the Vatican, since you seem not even to have been outside your house, allow me to tell you that the Vatican is tiny and is an independent state. It is a "one-company town" built for the papacy. However, Rome, the capital of Italy, has indeed had a gay pride parade, much to the Pope's great annoyance. I could not care less about Russia/USSR, has always been either a totalitarian regime or an authoritarian regime, except, arguably, for a few years under Yeltsin. Do you recommend that the Haredim march around with their outfits in Moscow, though? I see no reason even to mention Damascus. Military authoritarian regimes are not known for free speech or free political assembly. That's why the are A U T H O R I T A R I A N. Even a blind squirrel sometimes finds a nut, though, and you are surely right that Jews should have the right to pray on the Temple Mount.

pride parade. If not, you are lying, and you are hurting other Jews in your lie. This is the most hateful kind of speech. Just off the top of my head (almost) http://static.flickr.com/21/28973651_656efec528_m.jpg http://www.nir-vana.com/photosite/Events/jpride05/pages/CRW_1619.htm http://media.bonnint.net/apimage/8039f056-6920-4512-b7f7-a9096433ce10.jpg http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer2/20122005/832729/Jerusalem-Pride_wa.jpg

Jerusalem is not an ordinary town. The parade should not be held there. Have it in Tel Aviv. Or Paris. If the gays want to educate people about their plight as a persecuted minority, then there are better ways to do it. A parade, by its very nature, is an exhibitionistic and flamboyant affair. (Does anyone think Macy's Parade in NYC is an understated and dignified event?) Just look at the Pride parades they have in San Francisco. I've heard gays themselves say that the behavior of the paraders is an embarrassment to them. Is that the kind of even that is appropriate to hold in Jerusalem? No.

I agree with Feiglin completely. The gay activists are only interested in making their lifestyles an accepted norm, and to foist thier private agenda on the majority public. The bogeyman of being labeled intolerant scares many people, just like the lable of being called a racist does. Right and wrong has no barometer in much public discourse. Denying the parade does not violate anyone's right to engage in their gay sex lifestyle. However, foisting the march on a public that does not want it violates the civil rights of this majority. If people in Europe have no problem with such a parade then this is their deal. The US can do as it pleases too. But to be cowed by the labels of intolerant, racist, homophobic etc is to be a moral coward.

An excellent article - Kol Hakavod!

B"H SK, I think your reference is worthwhile. http://www.metroweekly.com/prideguide/ does actually show that there is an annual event in DC. Sorry for not seeing it before, but I have never seen so much press coverage of it in the United States as there is in the Israeli press. Thank you for doing your homework. I thought your response was very responsible. I guess it boils down to are Jews going to be like a flexible tree that bends to the winds or like a tree that snaps in a hurricaine. I think we are getting a little bit out of hand on this issue. I am stepping down the rhetoric. It is not worth it on this point. Thank you for pointing out the weakness in my perception. I am glad that there is still freedom of press on YNET. I admit my oversight. Perhaps we need to focus on keeping that freedom in place. Let us get some peaceful prayers and peaceful protests in place so that there can be a show of unity even through there are opposite viewpoints. Homosexuality has been around for mellenia and it is not going to end with this parade one way or the other. What is the point in getting violent over something that is really not in our hands to fully control? Reference: Sunday, June 11 **31st Annual Washington, D.C., Pride Street Festival -- Join over 200,000 people for the annual celebration of Pride on historic Pennsylvania Avenue (between 3rd and 7th streets NW). Festival site opens to the public at 11:30 a.m. A full day of vendors, non-profits who need your support and entertainment at both the Arts Stage (at 6th and Pennsylvania) and on the main stage with emcees Paul Williams, Chris Peterson, and Derek and Romaine, as well as performances from Amy Armstrong and Freddy Allen, Rachel Panay, Kimberley Locke, CeCe Peniston and Thelma Houston. A closing dance party spun by DJ Chris Wren starts at 7 p.m. Open to the public; donations very welcome. See site map on page 81 for more information. For a list of participating vendors and organizations, as of press time, please see page 78. For information on Main Stage entertainment, please see page 83, and for information on the Arts Stage entertainment listing please see page 87.

The sign the young man on the right is holding states "lets make a hole in the wall and f*** it" and the girl in the middle, of all the evil arrogance that can be, is wearing a tallit the she cut to expose her breasts. Words fail to describe the disgust I feel now. The gays in the world have an agenda and it's that they want to force their lifestyle on the rest of us. They also want our children to be their playthings as they can't make children of their own. This parade should not take place and I can't believe there have been gay parades in Jerusalem in the past.

No kidding? My mother always said, you had to think it to say it. Well I don't appreciate the joke (if it is as you say) nor the parade. I don't agree with his support of it either. In addtion, I did not miss the fact that he states he will be marching in the parade. Possibly this is a joke too and you can further provide your interpretation of the man and his so called witty writing. So these are my issue and if you a gay person implying I am gay- well nice try but no thank you to your sales tactics. I only work the way G-d intended, heterosexual. Possibly if the world wasn't full of vile individuals intruding on the lives of good people with evil messages under the false banner of righteousness, waving the flag colored as a raibow (spiteful G-d's use of it as a symbol), I would have less issues.

the photo is not from a prior Jerusalem parade. In Jerusalem these events are modest.

I have read your drivel all over the Israeli talkbacks. I don't deny that you truely believe the stuff you have been posting. But I think you don't truely understand Jewish theology and Jewish thought process. I have not read a single thing which I consider hateful here. Maybe you don't agree with what we are saying, but I have not seen anyone call for gays to be opressed. I do agree with those who say that it is completely wrong and arrogant and unkind for the gays to go against the majority and hold a parade in the holy city. I live in SF, and there are gay parades every week here... Come to SF and party your gay ass off here.. But leave the holy city alone, you know nothing about holiness and you know nothing about righteousness. Why don't you try a modesty parade, or a friendship parade... Maybe you will be better recieved if you just drop the homosexual agenda. You people are cruel and uncaring, and I don't support you or your agenda. Only leftist and reform rabbis will twist Torah law to allow for the abominable behaviour by which you live your life. These so-called Rabbis are the enemies of Judaism and will be dealt with {they will perish into the dustbin of history with all the other homosexual loving leaders}. You and your kind have only one salvation, which is to do HONEST TESHUVA and STUDY the TORAH. Maybe then you can regain your portion of the world to come... Until then, don't expect those righteous people to accept your horrible behavior.

The man who would be PM said a couple of weeks ago on "Manhigut Mondays" (Israel National Radio, the Fleisher/Traiman show) that the gay march was more important than the Iranian threat. Now, even many people blinded by religion or ideology would raise their eyebrows over this. Do you? For a while I thought that Feiglin was just blinded by his hatred of gay people. But now I think more is going on. Let's see what Feiglin says here: "Our enemies are watching the march and telling themselves: 'If this is what they are, we are going to win' – and they're right! Because the question in this case isn’t whether homosexual relations are good or bad; it is a question of whether we as a nation have some kind of a basic moral common denominator. Those who regularly attempt to shatter what up until yesterday constituted a common basis for our public life are in fact making an effort to make us crumble as a people and state." This is a remarkable passage. In first place, when Feiglin claims that "the question in this case isn’t whether homosexual relations are good or bad," we know perfectly well that he isn't being honest. Feiglin very much believes that the immorality of the march CAUSES Israeli weakness. Second, does anyone seriously believe that one more pride march in Jerusalem (three or four have occurred already) would materially change Arab attitudes toward Jews and Israel? Will we hear less about being "sons of monkeys and pigs"? Be serious. If Feiglin really cared about impressing the Arabs, there are all sorts of things he could advocate. For example, he could have agitated about the Wafk's plan to build another minaret on the Temple Mount. Talk about DESECRATION! But we've heard not a peep from him about this. But then consider that remarkable claim about the "common basis for our public life" that somehow is undermined by one more march. Let's see ... most IDF soldiers haven't even visited Jerusalem before they are inducted. How exactly, then, could a one-day event in Jerusalem make any difference at all to those who really fight for Israel? Feiglin's own speeches elsewhere point out that there is a LACK of what HE calls "Jewish Identity." Clearly, then, this identity could not be the "common theme" that binds the society together but that would be obliterated by another march. I don't think Feiglin is trying to strengthen the "common basis," but to substitute a new one: his version of Judaism, which is certainly not mainstream in Israeli society. That is why he can defend the Orange (settler) minority with rights talk but then forget all about rights such as free speech rights when it comes to gay people. He doesn't care about rights per se. He is no democrat.

It wouldn't surprise me, by the way, if his talk about praying on the Temple Mount was his "secret weapon" against this pride march. He DOES believe that praying there is a right (correctly, I think), and he's decided that this march can be turned into a win-win situation. But why not forget about the pride march and just go after this objective? Alas, there's a problem: the Haredim want nothing to do with the Temple Mount. If he pushes this, he alienates his most numerous supporters. Feiglin is no fool. If Feiglin wanted to strengthen Israel as a democracy, I suggest that this is not that difficult. Anyone who reads secular conservatives such as Caroline Glick knows that concrete changes such as replacing the party list approach for Knesset elections with a district-based approach would immeasurably strengthen Israel's democracy. That alone would weaken the government and the Supreme Court by strengthening checks and balances. The problem, though, is that such changes would stabilize a secular Israel and weaken the Haredim. He doesn't want to do that: he is a revolutionary, not a reformer. So, my friends, if you want a better democratic republic, one where elections count, where individual rights (for gays and for settlers) are more secure, where the standard of living is higher, where the Arab enemy is weakened, you want neither the status quo nor Feiglin, and don't let him tell you these are the only choices. The problem in Israel is a lack of proper democratic functioning, not a lack of Orthodoxy. By the way, this is no apologia for the Israeli Left. Feiglin is almost certainly correct that a larger Israel is a safer Israel, that Arabs need to be dealt with according to Jewish traditions (including destruction of villages housing terrorists). Personally, I think that Israel will not be secure until the "Palestinians" are transferred (and please, those who supported Kadima should have no problem with the concept). The problem is that Feiglin will throw out the "democracy" in "Jewish democracy." Rather than reinforcing checks and balances, he will sweep them away in favor of halachic authority. And don't believe for a minute that when he denies this he is being truthful. His reaction to the pride march is proof positive about what his agenda really is.

A sad day in Israel it will be when this 'parade' takes place. I have read that a huge percentage of Israel is secular...I wonder why? Israel is special, the Jews are special..set apart for righteousness, Jerusalem is special. Sadly, just as in America & Europe, it appears in Israel the liberal left is pretty much in charge and political correctness reigns in the hearts of most...above righteousness and common sense. You gays are accepted by most -maybe not approved of by all, but so what, you lack no rights or freedoms...you could have chosen the higher road, you should have. What have you achieved if you do this? Why do you feel compelled to do this in this city? It seems a hollow victory, when division and polarization are the fruits. I don't think most of you who will march and those who support your legal "right" to march really understandy the implications...how can you? If you believed Scripture, then would you march? I can't see how. Scripture says we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. But it is not up to the created to dictate to the Creator what is or is not sin...such attitude is arrogant and insolent. God's instruction to us all is to acknowledge our sin and then repent...what a hard cross you have to bear, one I would wish on no one. Yet those who believe in Scripture must oppose you...how can they do anything else? It is not a matter of hate, or self-righteousness, or intolerance, but of obedience. To the ultra-orthodox....remeber that Scripture says not to sin in your anger. Oppose, protest, but don't injure. You have absolved yourselves of complicity.

Very nice Feiglin. You are already my Prime Minister. The only Jewish leader with an agenda, an action plan and an achievable dream. I am with you all the way. Baruch tihiye!!

to the question asked in the heading. The only danger to our existence is the Haredim and their disgusting behaviour.

Feiglin is right, this march and what it represents will hurt Israel more then anyother country. Because it shows your Governments and institutions do not believe that the 'Bible' is the word of God, which records the title deed of the Land, to Jacob and his decendents.In the beliefs of many of us. So what are you doing there?