I think the gay pride parade shouldn't be held in Jerusalem because of the religious population in the city. I think the parade may cause violence between the religious and gay community.

I think the gay parade should take place in Jerusalem. And you know why? because! because the Haredim think that they deserve anything they want or desire but they think that if something doesnt go their way they could make a big huss out of it! Its different world than it used to be before so they should get used to it! many people today stop from their beliefs, there are gay and lesbians and the society is divided by many parameters...... In conclusion the gay parade should be held Jerusalem, because if the gay live and work on Jerusalem why cant they do a parade?!

It is important to remember that we live in a democratic country, and as a democratic country, all the people, whether minority or majority, have the rights to express theirs feelings.

I think they should hold the parade in Jerusalem, because whenever the ultra-orthodox Jews complain about something they do violence acts to get what they want. I think the parade should be marched in Jerusalem so the ultra-orthodox Jews will know that they can't get everything they want via violence.

I believe that the homosexual community should b allowed 2 do anything they want- as long as they do not hurt any1 on purpose. Let them have the parade, let them do what they what. The question indeed in this case isn’t whether homosexual relations are good or bad; "it is a question of whether we as a nation have some kind of a basic moral common denominator"- and that is why the gays should b able and allowed 2 do what they want without others 2 frown. we should be united against enemies in all cost and in any time. accept your jewish brothers.

In my opinion, I think it's worng to have the parade in Jerusalem, the holy city. In spite of the fact that the ultra-orthodox Jews are acting like animals and going wild in the streets, I believe we don't have to perform the parade in jerusalem but in Tel-Aviv. The guy community in Tel Aviv is much bigger then the guy community in Jerusalem such as the religious community in Jerusalem is much bigger then the religious community in Tel Aviv, and I think we need to respect that.

in my opinion, this parade wont be held in Jerusalem. Jerusalem is an important city that its necessary to respect, and it doesnt matter what kind of people they are but they can't dance half-naked on the street while other people pray.

what sense is there in all those wars? even if it take place in jerusalem i think that its a pity for all that mess and its not worth people getting hurt!

I would be opposed to a parade of heterosexuals who wanted to proclaim the nature of their private activities to the entire world. Why would they want the world to know about their sex life? Gay Parades, with their inevitably large component of street theater, are part of the bombardment of sexual messages aimed at our kids and us. The bikini-clad men prancing down the street are not engaged in a traditional civil rights march (homosexuals suffer from no civil disabilities in Israel). This is nothing more than a provocation.

This marchs is against Torah, agaist Jewish zionest!!!!!!!!! I wish that I will be there in coming friday and against the parade

It seems that these days any time someone religious stands up against or for something the secular people shout "religious coercion!!!" The seculars have made what they call being "liberal" the only way to be. what this means is that anything religious is fascist and anything secular is liberal and ok. Not OK this liberalism has become its self a facistic coercive suppressive cult of secular fanatics who rule out the feelings and wants of any one different from themselves. Jerusalem is a holy city with a majority of religious Jews, Christians & Moslems. If they do not wish that this 'event' take place in their majority city, and the seculars want to do it anyway with out disscussing it and considering these feelings than this is the true coercion by the seculars who have become exactly what they despise: a cult of "secular religionists", whose 'lawsof liberalism' take the place of the ten commandments/Sha'aria and they have no tolerance for others feelings.

Baby-death case cues uproar in Israel sect Case spotlights insular religion Ken Ellingwood Los Angeles Times May. 19, 2006 12:00 AM JERUSALEM - An infant's death has spawned a controversial criminal case centering on one of Israel's most insular Jewish sects. At issue in a Jerusalem court is whether a 19-year-old yeshiva student named Yisrael Vales fatally beat his 3-month-old son, Yitzhak, during a burst of anger last month The case sparked three days of street disturbances and has spilled beyond the impoverished enclave where Vales now sits under house arrest. The pitched sentiments surrounding the allegations underscore the often uneasy relations between Israel's secular majority and the largely cloistered world of black-clad believers generally called ultra-Orthodox, or haredi, Jews. advertisement Authorities say Vales confessed to police that he slapped and beat his son while caring for him on April 2 because he could not cope with the child's crying. The prosecution alleges that the defendant admitted that he had slapped, pinched and bitten the boy at least once before. Vales, who is charged with manslaughter and child abuse, is being defended by of one of Israel's most famous defense attorneys. Vales' family is prominent within the Edah Haredit movement, composed of Ashkenazi Jews who reject Israel as a heresy, refuse government assistance and prefer to live apart, with their own religious leaders to oversee religious courts, marriages, burials and certification for kosher food. Fellow Edah Haredit members in the Mea Shearim neighborhood, where Vales lives with his 19-year-old wife, Hanna, have rallied to his defense, accusing Israeli authorities of coercing a confession and trying to smear their community. The neighborhood erupted just before the Passover observance last month when supporters demanded that police release Vales. Posters went up accusing the government of a "blood libel" against the community. Hundreds of people blocked roads, hurled stones at police and motorists and set fire to municipal trash bins, causing $30,000 in damage, city officials said. "They felt they were being discriminated against by the entire so-called Zionist society, which consists of the majority of Jews in Israel. His community felt it was being placed in a defensive position," said Menachem Friedman, a professor at Bar-Ilan University near Tel Aviv who studies haredi culture. "Their main fear is the government is out to get them." A judge later freed Vales on bail but placed him under house arrest at his grandparents' home, sparking accusations from some Israeli child-welfare advocates that authorities buckled to pressure. Along the cluttered alleys of Mea Shearim, outsiders are greeted with a wary gaze, banners warn against immodest dress and much of the neighborly conversation takes place in the Yiddish of Old Europe. The allegations against Vales have placed the privacy-minded community on a collision course with the outside world. Vales stepped into an Israeli courtroom for a procedural hearing Thursday, accompanied by his wife and a dozen supporters, who wore side locks and knee-length black coats and formed a protective ring to keep reporters and news photographers at bay. Prosecutors say Vales told police he was frustrated that his wife was working at a job outside the home and irritated that their child was born with a muscle defect in the neck that caused the infant's head to tilt to one side. The boy died in a Jerusalem hospital eight days after the attack. Prosecutors say head injuries, including retinal bleeding, point to "shaken baby syndrome." Authorities did not perform an autopsy in deference to community sensitivities over treatment of the dead. "We have the medical evidence in this case, and we also have a confession," prosecutor Nick Kaufman said.

You're committing a sin too, you're boring us.... with this same dull Vales mantra, non stop, day in day out. What is with you Dorothy?Get a life...please.

Whatever happens in Israel the elites are successful in robbing the power away from the people. For obvious historical reasons election debates almost exclusively deal with security, but in a limited controlled arena. For instance, we the people of Israel have never been asked true questions, like why not implant proved successful ethnic based security measures of Ben Gurion Airport everywhere, since we sold the patent to foreign airport authorities? It's a faraway dream to have here a debate on family and society values in politics. Like abortion, same sex unions, or civil unions or whatsoever. Just forget it; here democracy stops at the step door of the people it’s left over to Supreme Court, President, Journalists, and Rabbis all bunch of corrupted people. The proper thing to do, in the case of gay pride would be to wait for the purpose of dealing with social/moral issues in a democratic away instead of a biased preservation of status quo. We should not be afraid to find out who we are in a census kind of way.

I am a straight liberal non-Jewish woman and I have a problem with the gay march. I just cannot understand why the lovers of freedom have to hurt other people's feelings by holding the parade first in Rome, then in Jerusalem? Surely it cannot be an accident that two cities that to many people represent traditional values, have been chosen to hold this kind of event? If indeed it is not an accident, then it can only be deliberate provocation? If so, how can these people expect others to respect them and their choices when they really do not? Also, I fail to see what particular pride their is in one's sexuality? Why do I not flaunt it to other people's faces? When even the majority of secular jerusalemites is against holding the march, then it shows lack of tolerance and serious lack of consideration to have it there. I cannot support people who are so intolerate themselves...

Holiness is defined By Hashem not by Yuval Ben Ami. Remember we were in Israel once before and were Exiled just because of these very Sins amongst others. Leviticus (20:13) Man that will sleep with a male the way you sleep with a woman they should be killed. The following most people know its from the talmud, Rambam and etc. The sins that a person should allow to kill himself rather than transgress are Murder, serve Idols and Adultery which includes Homosexuality. and thru killing yourself you sanctify Hashems Name. If you transgress you profaned Hasems Name. And if you commited sin in front of Ten Jews you profaned Hashems Name in Public(Mechalel Shaim Shomayim Brabim) The above is even when you are forced to transgress with a gun pointing to your head. What desecration of Hashems Name and in public and the city of Jerusalem will be commited if this perverted Parade will be allowd to proceed.

Steve, I couldn't agree more that we should step down the rhetoric, and I appreciate your reply very much. I actually felt a bit guilty about the tone in my TB to you. I understand how distressed or offended people can be over this event. I do wonder why this march, the fouth in Jerusalem in four years, has suddenly become a subject for sustained riots, though. Some larger political agendas are in play. My guess is that the aborted World Pride heightened tensions for a later "regular" pride march, and various opposing politicos are taking the offensive now. I very much like your comment that " I guess it boils down to are Jews going to be like a flexible tree that bends to the winds or like a tree that snaps in a hurricaine." Lao Tzu actually says something similar. I am 100% for peaceful protests and prayers. We absolutely cannot have a holy war in the Holy Land. Some nowadays like to say that Israel is not supposed to be just like the US. Agreed. But it seems that much can be learned from such an old republic that has never had a religious war on its soil and also happens to be a model for all other democratic republics in the world.

No, Josh, he will be marching in the parade, as a heterosexual. And no, Josh, I did not imply that you were gay, just that you were full of anti-gay hatred. I make no comment on your sexual orientation.

And I have read your own drivel, Michael and have responded to it. Of course you do not see such responses as hateful, few believe that they have said hateful things. Yet, in my view, you have personally contributed innumerable TBs that I would consider hateful. But my point here isn't to dwell on such stuff, but rather to spend my time arguing my points. I simply disagree with your version of "Jewish theology and Jewish thought process." I think my own thought process has the merit of reasoning from the texts of different (Jewish) sources and integrating other sources as relevant. I do not insist that anyone "accept" anything. However, I also would not have Jewish people be dhimmis in their land. A group that cannot march freely in their political capital are a group of dhimmis, pure and simple. A strong Israel cannot be a Jewish state for just the Orthodox. I have no doubt that you feel it cruel for others to insist on their rights. That is always the case. If gay people in Israel get all the rights that straight people have -- and they certainly do not have them, as noted by Omri in 8 -- there will be no marches.

Does it surprise you that other Israelis might just have "issues" with Jewish symbols like the wall and that one might make up a tee-shirt showing this? You would be a rotten police detective. Incidentally, I think the shirt was completely inappropriate in what was probably a Tel Aviv march. I would not march anyone wearing it, and I would personally complain to person wearing it.

Parades empower some and anger or offend others. Why don't you simply accept that in a democracy there is no "right" never to be offended? The other specifics of your talkback have been dealt with elsewhere.

Norman, do you believe that this is the first time that I and many others have heard of these passages? Some people just don't agree with your interpretation of Lev., or with the Rambam. If you agree with them, then you should live your life accordingly. You do not have Hashem sitting here giving instructions. No, you have some inherited texts. If these texts do not contain historical corruptions, they would be the only texts of this age not to have them. I am simply being practical here. The thing is, Orthodox interpretions are deeply problematic. For example, the passage you refer to from Leviticus (and 18:22) mention only men, not women. This same passage about this sin occurs twice in Lev. Yet, "traditional" interpretation has it that ALL homosexual activity is banned. So, "tradition" has effectively inserted a full sentence in two places in Lev. This is NOT consistent with the principle that marks cannot be added or removed. And these marks are added to the Pentatuech! You simply can't be a biblical literalist in some places and wildly interventionist in other places, yet that is precisely what "Orthodoxy" does, endlessly. Catholics have dealt with this issue many times before, because they have actually wielded temporal power. Now Jews have to deal with the same issue.

sk is the current spokesperson for the gays on Ynet. Everything he/she says uses insidious logic to justify anything, but denies anyone elses logic. This is typical of the GLBT crowd. This comment from sk is incorrect : "Parades empower some and anger or offend others. Why don't you simply accept that in a democracy there is no "right" never to be offended?" If there is no right to never be offended, then why are the GLBT crowd so offended by so-called "hate speech"? In some places in the US, it is possible to be sued, thrown out of school, fired from a job, or publicly humiliated with name-calling like "homophobe", "bigot", "intolerant", etc., for voicing the opinion that GLBT activities are dysfunctional and offensive, or using words like "fag" or "dyke" to describe them. The serpent in gan eden was the paradigm for the GLBT crowd's logic. It was sly and manipulative and convinced Eve to do something self-destructive, by implying there was nothing wrong with it. The GLBT crowd encourages people, especially youth, to examine their feelings to see if perhaps they are gay, and glorify this with colorful parades. All the while saying that there is nothing wrong with it ,and finally that G-d, in the form of religious people, is simply hiding from them this happiness to which they are entitled that comes from GLBT behavior. This is a truly dangerous bunch. If homophobic means being afraid of this behavior, I am it. I fear for the influence these colorful events have on innocent and unsuspecting children, who by their nature like excitement, and action, particularly if it's packaged in primary colors. This parade needs to be stopped.

I appreciated the comments of Uyval Ben Ami and in particular for standing up for gay rights. It is a sad day when freedom of speech and the right to demonstrate is squashed.

Let's see Baruch's "logic": 1) sk is typical of the GLBT crowd. 2) the GLBT crowd is offended by so-called "hate speech." 3) THEREFORE, sk is offended by so-called "hate speech" and is being "incorrect" (meaning, inconsistent, disingenuous?) The problem is that 1) is false. I vote Republican for God's sake! I voted for Bush twice!! I do not tolerate governments regulating speech and loathe speech codes (all the rage at public universities). I prefer private businesses to have maximum freedom, so if they want to require employees not to run around calling other employees faggots, well, fine. Work places are not the same as public squares anyway, though. It is a more complicated situation. And, there has been a traditional distinction between speech directed at a particular person and speech directed at a group or stratum. Incidently, 2) does tend to be the case, but it's the case for the whole Left AND the Right. Most people tend to forget all about free speech when it is convenient. Oh, and Baruch, I cannot be "the current spokesperson for the gays on Ynet" because no one has selected me, and I would not accept.

Right on! I agree also!

and thats includes gay too